Choose a line from the text and explain why
it stands out to you. Does this line shock you, confuse you, or seem
important in some way? Does it make you ask a question? Can you make a
connection to your life or another text? What is this line saying about
Holden, and then what is this line saying about people, or the world, in
general?
Then, respond to another student's comment. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward.
" I watched he once from the window when she was crossing over Fifth Avenue to go to the park, and that's what she is, roller-skate skinny. You'd like her." (pg 67)
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the first times that Holden opens up to the reader. He has talked about negative things lie his brothers death and getting kicked out of four schools, yet he never talks about anything positive in his life that is not a lie. Holden speaks like he knows that the reader will be a fan of his sister, Phoebe. Holden does not say that he thinks that you would like her he says, " You'd like her." When I read it I thought that Holden was talking to the reader as a friend. I think that this was a turning point for Holden, I think that he might start opening up to others in the book not just as a narrator to a reader.
I agree with you. I think that when Holden says "You'd like her", it gives us a big hint of who he is writing this book to/who is audience is. I think that since he knows that this person would like her, he has to know his audience pretty well, I agree with your idea that it is maybe a close friend or relative. I am also curious as to how long it has been since he has seen his sister, since he keeps on saying how she is the type of person you always want to talk to on the phone, is she someone he calls often, or does he wish that they could talk more.
DeleteI completely agree with you. Holden doesn't have many positive things in his life but talking about his sister is definitely one of them. I also think that when Holden talks about any of his siblings he gets a sense of joy out of it. Like you said, Holden might start opening up to others in the book and I agree, I've noticed him getting more comfortable around people that he doesn't even know that well. After he gets off the train in Penn Station, he gets into a cab and asks the driver about the ducks in the lagoon... That doesn't seem like something you would ask if you weren't remotely comfortable around them even after a few minutes.
DeleteI agree with you 110% .Holden is a very closed person and he doesn't let anyone in his world or tell anyone what he is feeling when it is positive but when he says" You'd like her" he gives us( the reader ) this idea that maybe he is just hiding very thing from the reader cause when it comes down to it his life and the way he sees things around him is very complicated (at least he thinks that it is).
Delete"I know her like a book, I really did. I mean, besides checkers, she was quite fond of all athletic sports... I really got to know her quite intimately. I don't mean it was anything physical or anything- it wasn't- but we saw each other all the time. You don't always have to get too sexy to know a girl."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me the most because it shows a different side of Holden. With his type of attitude and recent craving for sex, you wouldn't expect him to show this much care towards a girl. He's not experienced when it comes to it, and he doesn't really say many positive things about people, unless it's his little brother or sister. When he speaks of Jane, he speaks of her delicately and with sweet fondness that shows a softer side of him. He really did develop a connection with her, and he knows that you should respect women. As he said so in the quote. Jane brings out the more loving side in Holden, as so did his siblings in a way they are all connected. Holden is very overprotective over Jane, hence the jealousy he felt when Stradlater said he'd "show her a good time." So he punched him, and even though Holden knew he didn't give her any type of time he still felt upset and jealous, because even though he hides it. Holden does have feelings.
I totally agree. Holden has this overprotective feeling over Jane. Which is very odd because, like you said he has a certain craving for sex. Jane is probably the only girl that he knows who he actually has a feeling for. He even told her about Allie and showed her the baseball mitt he had when we all know he doesn't like to discuss his past. An example of his overprotective feeling Holden had for Jane is on page 78 when Jane started to cry because she obviously had a serious relationship with her father. She never told Holden what it was about but it bothered him. He started to kiss her to make her feel better. He even took her to a movie to get her mind of the situation, even though he didn't know what the whole dilemma was. So I agree, this quote shows a side of Holden that I don't think we have seen before. We need to remember that we are dealing with a guy who doesn't show any concern for himself and doesn't even care. So him caring about Jane so much and showing some sort of emotion is actually a pretty big deal.
DeleteI also agree! The quote defiantly shows Holden's soft side and uncovers a more respectful and caring side of him.The way he talks about Jane is very special in the book because when reading, Holden usually comes up either acting older or younger than his age. When talking about Jane, Holden sounds like a teenage boy and surprisingly, instead of pushing her away or lying to her, he actually lets her get to know the real Holden. It shows even how nervous Holden became when wanting to call her (pg. 63), and his more vulnerable side. A problem about this for Holden is that by letting her become close to him, she could hurt his feelings and Holden may suffer dramatically from it. But it is nice to know that he can let people in, even after the death of his brother. Be careful Holden!
Delete"I was half in love with her by the time that we sat down." (pg 73)
ReplyDeleteHolden says this after dancing with the blonde girl, Bernice, who Holden described as not to bad, in the Lavender Room. Holden was dancing with these girls for what he says is hours, although he is a liar so he could be exaggerating, but these girls show absolutely no interest in him. When he is dancing with Bernice he keeps complimenting her on her dancing, and asking her questions about where she is from, and Bernice just answers "what?", like she couldn't hear him. But by the time they go back to the table when they are done dancing, Holden claims to be "half in love with her"! First of all the girls didn't even invite him to sit at the table with him, and they are also showing no interest in him at all. He claims that it took him an hour and a half to find out where they were from! I think that Holden is so lonely that he will take any company that he can get, even if he has to buy them drinks and pry information out of them. Another interesting thing is Holden doesn't tell these girls his real name. He told the stripper on the phone in the previous chapter his real name, why not tell these random "dopey" girls his real name?
I agree with you. Holden sometimes confuses me on that part. He makes up his mind and thinks of things off of nothing how can he be close to in love with this girl who barley gives him the time of day. It shocked me and I really wonder what goes through his mind and his thinking process for these drastic decisions.
DeleteI agree with you that Holden is lonely, but I think that the reason he is “half in love with” Bernice is not because he wants company but because of all the pretty things girls do. The but twitch Bernice does when dancing is enough to make Holden fall half in love with her, even though she isn’t that pretty, is a dope, and keeps on saying “what”. And as Holden says, “Girls .... can drive you crazy. They really can.”, to explain his confusion and reasons for being “half in love” with so many girls including Bernice.
Delete"That's the thing about girls. Every time they do something pretty, even if they're not much to look at, or even if they're sort of stupid, you fall half in love with them, and you never know where the hell you are. Girls. Jesus Christ. They can drive you crazy. They really can." Pg. 73
ReplyDeleteHolden gives another one of his opinions but this time it is all about girls. This is what most men think too in real life. They think that women have a lot to do with what men think. Other than that, I wonder if this is a way of saying he doesn't want to have a relationship. Maybe he is just confused on what he thinks of a girl. Maybe what he's trying to say is to wait. But what do I know, I'm a kid.
“I don’t exactly know what I mean by that, but I mean it.” (Pg. 80)
ReplyDeleteWhen I saw this quote it stood out to me like crazy. Something about it made it stick out. Maybe it is because it is so relatable. What I love about The Catcher in the Rye is how relatable it is. It almost is like J.D. Salinger wrote this as a sixteen year old. I can completely relate with every line. Well almost every line. I am not a male so some lines are a little out there if I felt the same way. This line stood out to me because a lot of times I will say something that I do not know what it means but I know it meaning full. It’s almost like “word vomit.” It comes out fast but it makes no sense but it has more meaning then you think. Everything does in the book. This was supposed to tell you something about the book secretly. Like the ducks, or the red hunting hat has absolutely nothing to do really with Holden but if you really look at it does and you do not really know what it means but t means something. That is what so great about the book nothing is ever what it seems. It almost gives Holden this mystery that no one ever sees besides from his lying.
I agree with you. This was also a very easy quote for me to relate to. I was actually trying to decide between this quote an the quote that I ended up using. I feel like sometimes I have one of those moment when I am trying to say something, but then when I say it out loud nobody understands what I mean. This is the same for Holden, but he cannot undo what he said. Holden usually sticks to what he means even if he cannot justify it, understand it, or explain what he means.
DeleteI agree that the book is very relatable! Also how something so simple could mean so much. It reminds me of Angela's Ashes, the part where McCourt and his brother were just simply on the sea-saw and Malachy bit his tongue and there was blood. It caused McCourt to remember the dead dog with blood everywhere and that hidden meaning was his first encounter with death. Therefore The Catcher in the Rye expresses Holden secretly hiding an important message.
DeleteI also strongly agree with you and I was going to use the same quote but I think that everyone can pretty much relate to this quote because it has happen to everyone where they know what it means but it is hard to express it through words and sometimes people don't understand but deep down you know what it means and that all that matters. through-out the book J.D Salinger I think purposely write lines like this to show us what Holden is trying to say or express but he does do it in a secretly way like there is like a mysterious truth behind every line. He lets us know how Holden feels in an indirect way like he doesn't just come out and say it but he said it in a way that we can still understand what he means by it.
DeleteI sooo agree with this Molly! I was actually thinking about this before this quote was mentioned. Like we can relate so much to Holden and his internal conflicts that it's as if nothing has changed since the 1950's and now. Everything is pretty much the same. Us, teenagers, and Holden have very similar conflicts. I love this book, it has so much connections to the outside world, everything is accurate, to the locations in NY to the kind of weather that is described. We can almost say that this book is a memoir or something. Very fascinating you can say!
Delete"I damn near gave my kid sister Phoebe a buzz...I certainly felt like talking to her on the phone. Somebody with a sense and all...She's very emotional, for a child...she writes books all the time. They're all about some kid named Hazel Weatherfield -only old Phoebe spells it "Hazle"...And when Allie and I were having some conversation about hings in general, old Phoebe'd be listening." pg.66 and 68
ReplyDeleteThis passage is significant because it gave me many thoughts about Holden's relationship with his sister Phoebe. In the passage, I found that Phoebe and Holden have a better relationship than with him and his parents. It seems as though Phoebe truly understands Holden. Maybe it's because she feels deep emotion just like all the other teenagers out there in the world, even though she's just a kid. Or maybe it's just that Holden believes she's a good listener; she has a "sense and all". Another reason could be, she has a child-like way of doing things, she spells Hazel "Hazle". When Holden asked about where the ducks go when the pond freezes up and if Jane still keeps her kings in the back row, he displays a child-like sense to himself as well. Although I infer that Phoebe spells Hazel a certain way for a reason. It could also mean that when Holden asks about the simplest things, he's subconsciously curious about a meaningful matter. An additional reason is Phoebe doesn't come across as a phony to Holden and that's most likely an attribute he likes very much from his sister. All in all, I feel Holden wants to talk to his sister because she understands him and can genuinely listen to him.
I defiantly agree with your point on how Holden likes Phoebe because she’s still a kid. He is becoming an adult and going through all of these adult things, and she is a reminder of being a kid. Holden is trapped between being a kid an adult and he wants to be both at the same time. He likes thinking he’s able to order drinks for Ernest Morrows mother but he also acts like a kid a lot of the time. He even says this at the beginning of the book where he says “I act like I’m thirteen”, so he knows he acts like a child. I also think your point ties into why he keeps on asking about the ducks in the pound, because he wants to know where to go. I agree with you because Holden wants to be young and old at the same time, and Phoebe is one thing that makes him feel younger, unlike the gray hairs. She makes him a kid again.
Delete“Or unless you’re with some girl that really knocks you out…She was a funny girl old Jane… She knocked me out, though.”(76-77)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because I think it says a lot about how much Holden really likes Jane. Even though he’s just been dancing with a girl that he said he was “half in love” with, he’s still thinking about Jane. It’s almost like it’s his subconscious that’s thinking about her all of the time. When the girls from Seattle leave, he is all alone, so he’s able to consciously think about Jane. He says he can’t be alone a place like the Lavender room unless he’s with a girl that “knocks you out”. He later goes on to say when he’s in lobby, that Jane was someone who “knocked” him out. So Jane would be the only person he would really want to be with in a place like the Lavender Room. I also think this shows how lonely he is. The girls he was with just leave without him and he’s all by himself thinking about a girl he’s never going to call. It all just seems like he’s lonely. It makes me think about how people in general always have something that they want to do but never have the courage to do. I think Holden want to talk to Jane so badly that all he can think about, even when he isn’t aware he’s thinking about, is Jane. I’m beginning to feel a little sorry for Holden because as the book develops, the reader realizes that he’s lonely. I also think maybe that he was able to open up to Jane about what he was feeling and that he needs to call her because he has all of these emotions he wants to talk about. Holden also is seen alone numerous times in the book and even when he’s with people, the reader can tell that he isn’t all there. His mind is always wondering, especially to Jane. I think Jane may be the closest thing to a friend he has. This may also be why he always wants to call her. Holden also seems to value their relationship. He doesn’t want to call and mess up, like he did with the stripper. I think Holden loves Jane because he always thinks about her.
“ I knew she wouldn’t let him get to first base with her, but it drove me crazy anyway. I don’t even like to talk about it, if you want to know the truth.” (pg.80)
ReplyDeleteThis is contradictory, since Holden has spent the entire chapter describing Jane, and all their “adventures” together throughout the summer in Maine, and the reasons Holden loves Jane so much. I think though that what Holden means by this quote is not that he doesn’t like opening up, but that he does not like talking about his depressing thoughts, the corny parts of his life. There is a part of Holden that is always trying to put up a dam to stop the insecureness, misery, and loneliness from rushing out and destroying the person or mask that Holden has created over the last years. I believe that Holden feels that he can’t talk about his grief, like Stradlater and Jane in Eddy Banky’s car, without some of it leaking through and destroying his persona. His love for Jane and his little sister though, thoughts that bring him joy, are what Holden is liable to rant on about for hours. Because who wouldn’t talk about all the good, if it means you can ignore the bad?
I agree in a sense. I feel that he misses Jane, and he'd rather sit for hours and enjoy all the good memories he has of her rather than remembering the upsetting part of the friendship that leads him to who he becomes. For him, it's easier to just disregard all the bad in him and try to hold on to the good if he can. Holden doesn't want to have to resurface the feelings he's been holding down for so long, so he tries to stay positive about everything even though not all of it was as perfect as the cover he likes to put on.
DeleteActually, I feel like this quote is pretty straight forward. Holden made it pretty clear that he doesn't like to talk about the situation with Stradlater and Jane and I don't feel like it's because he wants to hide in insecurities, but because he likes Jane! I mean, think about it! Would you like to talk about someone that you had a huge crush on "getting the time" from someone else? I don't think I would like that too much if I'm being quite honest. So, I understand what Holden means here.
DeleteThis line really gets on my nerves. I agree with you, after ranting about how great a person Jane is, he contradicts himself. Holden contradicts himself a lot. I think this is because he feels insecure about his feelings towards others. He is still trying to find himself. Holden calls other people “phonies,” “bastards,” “morons,” and other insulting names. Has he looked at himself? I think Holden purposefully analyzes other people, trying to avoid himself. It seems like he is hiding something from the reader. I can not figure out what it is.
Delete"She was the only, outside my family, that I ever showed Allie's baseball mitt to, with all the poems written on it. She'd never met Allie or anything, because that was her first summer in Maine-before that, she went to Cape Cod-but I told her quite a lot about him. " (77)
ReplyDeleteAllie is a very sentimental to Holden. Allie is Holden's dead brother who died very young because of Leukemia. The day Holden finds out he dies he trashes the garage and breaks all the windows. He was in a tragic state, where his parents and the people around him thought he might need to get mental help. At such a young age, or any age for that matter, death is a hard thing to deal with. Anything and everything makes you remind you of them and all the pain starts again. However, Holden, a very introverted guy, who doesn't like showing too much emotion and likes to put up this front for everybody else, shows a girl he just met for not too long, something so sentimental to him. One of the major things that reminds him of Allie. He never shows this mitt so far to anyone outside his family but her. It makes me wonder where he think their relationship stands. As past lovers? First love? Friends? Best friends? Family? What is Jane's hold on Holden? He is connected to her in some way, shape, or form that makes us believe that he likes her. Whether the case his, as shown in this quote his relationship with Jane is a very strong one.
-Nyla Mckenzie - Isaac
"I was half in love with her by the time we sat down. That's the thing about girls. Every time they do something pretty, even if they're not much to look at, or even if they're sort of stupid, you fall in love with them . . ." (p73)
ReplyDeleteThis line was very confusing to me regarding Holden's personality and his preference when it comes to the kind of girls he likes. In Chapter 7 Holden talks about how morons are and how they talk. In the chapter we currently read Holden talks about how the girls that he danced with at the club are morons. How they wouldn't listen to what he said, how they only cared about looking for movie stars that could possibly be their. He said that they seemed to be dumb and yet to him he "loves" them because of the way that they move their bodies. I found this very confusing because it's like he's sending mixed messages.
I do agree with the argument that you made in behalf of this quote. I also felt puzzled when reading this part. its almost like he wants to be somebody that he really wants to act like but actually his own reactions and words backfire him when he was dancing with this blonde girl. He has these feelings that are unbelievable to understand. He says that this girl is a moron for not answering her and just glancing around the room looking for this famous actor but at the end of the day he said he is in love with this girl. I personally think that he is trying to comprehend his own feelings toward people or can it be a phase that he is going through?
DeleteI do understand where your frustration towards Holden is coming from. Holden Caulfield is very contradicting in what he says. His contradictory nature is resonated when he mentions that the girls in the clubs “are morons,”—as you stated—and then he goes along and claims to being in love with one of them. I wonder, how is it possible for Holden to love someone whom he believes is nothing more than a “moron?” At times, I find it very hard to take Holden seriously, especially because he is so often contradicting himself.
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Delete"You never even worried with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy. You really were." (pg 103 in my book)
ReplyDeleteI think Holden experienced something with Jane that he never felt with anyone else. He was always a troubled child who didn't do well in school and was looked down upon by adults, but with Jane he was happy. He describes her as someone he never worried around, and I think that maybe she was the only person who really knew who he was even when he couldn't tell who he was. Around her, he never had to worry about impressing her, and he was safe from being judged. She was the only real friend he had, and I think he really values the friendship he had with her and wishes he could have it back. To Holden, Jane meant the world, and all he wanted was to make her happy like she made him happy. She was the only one he let inside and opened up to, and I feel as though he doesn't think he'll ever have that with anyone ever again.
i totally agree with you, i also feel that Holden obtained feelings for Jane. every time he would think of Stradlater and Jane in that car he says it drove him crazy in fact he didn't like talking about it. i agree that he opens up to Jane more than anybody basically means everything to him which he has feelings because like he said they were kissing and he kissed her in almost every part of her face. and he cares about her because he goes to console her when she cries in their checkers game which is why i think Jane makes him happy.
Delete" Old Phoebe. i swear to god you'd like her. she was smart even when she was a very tiny little kid".(pg.68)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it showed the reader that Holden was being more open about his past and didn't try to find a way out of talking about it, also it showed me as a reader how much he cared and loved his little sister. this line was significant to me because Holden in his time of depression and lonesome feels that his sister even if she's 10 is great to talk to on the phone which maybe would've made him feel better. it shows how he really love his sister by when he says he took her to see a movie more then 10 times despite the fact that he hated the movies which to me was really touching. i feel that his little sister has been a great impact in his life just like his brother Allie by the way he was very descriptive about his past with his little sister. i feel that he's kinda hard on himself because he says that he is the only dumb one out of his siblings. i think that having his sister by his side may affect how he acts in terms of not being open and trying to gain confidence for what his future lies ahead.
"You never even worried, with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy. You really were."
ReplyDeleteThis quote actually stands out to me because I feel like Holden actually pushes himself to not think about Jane or he says that he doesn't feel in the mood to talk to her when in reality he thinks about her a lot. This quote honestly made me soften up with Holden a bit, because although this is my opinion, being a girl and listening to Holden say such small details about Jane, and reading as he re told an entire story that had happened between him and Jane and things about her that almost "knocked him out" actually shows that Holden is not only focused on sex. The reason why I thought that Holden was a bit more focused on sex was because before he did mention that sex was not much of an issue for him and that he had broken his promise to himself and it made me lose a bit of respect for him. But, when I read this and how he spoke about Jane, describing her and how she makes him feel, made me have a whole new perspective on Holden because this is actually the third time that I got to see how Holden talks about people such as Allie, Phoebe and Jane ; It gives me a chance to see how many tiny tiny details Holden can rememeber about someone that he holds very close to his heart and how he thinks about them because it is one of those few moments that you get to see the person with feelings. This is when one gets to see the real Holden.
I strongly agree. In all honesty when I read this I started to fan-girl. I loved the way he didn't care what anyone thought about him when he was talking about her. You could literally feel the love radiating off of the pages when he was talking about Jane which I though was really cute. I also really loved the way you mentioned the details, that was something I added in my last response. I thought it was really weird the way he can remember and even notice these small details about how many times she lost the balls and how she opened her mouth when she was doing certain things. Overall when hes talking about Jane you could tell that he's really an observer. Hopefully we can see more of this side to Holden.
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DeleteI can totally see why this quote stood out to you Eddianne and I have to say that my quote is similar to yours in a way. My quote is similar to yours since, this is a part that Holden seems to open up to us, the readers, and that causes us to see him from a totally different prospective. Here’s my quote, “I should’ve given them the freeze, after they did that, but the trouble was, I really felt like dancing, I’m very fond of dancing, sometimes, and that was one of the times. So all of a sudden, I sort of leaned over and said, “Would any of you girls would care to dance?”(Salinger pg. 70) As you can see my quote is similar to yours in a way because, like I said before these quotes that you and I found lets us the readers, see the protagonist from a totally different perspective.
Delete“I don’t even like to talk about it, if you want to know the truth” pg 80
ReplyDeleteThis quote makes me think about the first page of the book when Holden first introduces himself and he’s talking about how he knows what we, the reader, want to hear. I feel like the only reason why he tells us all this stuff is because he really wants us to stay and he knows what we want to hear. Although he’s finally being honest and giving us a little bit of information, he’s extremely reluctant. This quote also can relate to situations when he’s talking to all the people he knows. This really relates to all those times when he was unsure of how people would react and he had to lie and be a ‘phony’ in order to get out of something or have the person stay. I really believe that nothing can change the way Holden doesn't like talking about his personal life no matter how much he goes on forever talking about it. Overall, I feel like the uneasiness that is Holden will never go away.
Honestly, I don't understand Holden because this reminds of how he introduced himself by saying he doesn't want to talk about his autobiography, but then he end ups talking about. Now he is repeating that he doesn't want to talk about, but then again we ending up finding out the truth eventually. That's really annoying, I agree with you that he does to further people's judgements of himself.
Delete"Listen, if you was a fish Mother Nature'd take care of you, wouldn't she? Right? You don't think them fish just die when it gets to be winter, do ya?"
ReplyDelete"No, but-"
"You're goddamn right they don't," (page: 83)
I know I read ahead but this book is just too fascinating to put down once you're into it. This dialogue/quote really stood out to me in the text because Horwitz, the taxi driver, in the beginning when we first meet him, seems like one of those cranky old men that doesn't like answering too many questions, especially about ducks in the lagoon in Central Park. But when Holden gets out of the cab at the end, Horwitz says one last thing that really stood out to me: "Listen if you was a fish Mother Nature'd take care of you wouldn't she? Right? You don't think them fish just die when it gets to be winter, do ya?… You're goddamn right they don't." He reminds me of Holden when he says this line because Holden is one of those people that likes keeping this thoughts to himself but at the last minute, says something kind of really poetic. And it has a bigger meaning once you think about it.
It is interesting that you think this way because I totally I agree. He is so hesitant to says his thoughts, but Why at last minute it means something meaningful? He is so inquisitive that whenever he asks a question he justifies them enough to really understand what they truly mean. It seems like the cab driver is irked by his curious questions. To me, it is the way he is able to find his "Search for Self" by asking these questions.
Delete“I should've given them the freeze, after they did that, but the trouble was, I really felt like dancing... I'm very fond of dancing sometimes and that was one of the times." Page 70
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me from any other lines in chapters 10 and 11 because it’s something that I have never really thought of. This hobby would be the last or even unimaginable activity that I would imagine Holden doing. Holden was in The Lavender room, everybody was much older than him and he cached an eye towards these three blonde girls. Something made him feel this motion of dancing and he smoothly asked to one of the blonde girls, "Would any of you girls care to dance?" I was surprised of how he just decided to ask this stranger who he just saw the first minute he entered the Lavender room. I wonder if Holden is a person who he would just communicate and open up to strangers instead of the people who really knows him. I do understand that Holden would rather just tell his story or just communicate with strangers because they don't expect him to act a certain way or knows his occurrences during the day. I think that its Holden's only way in which he can just make up another personality or identity, it almost seems like he gets this relief and weight from his back in just telling people or even asking random questions to strangers. I think that Holden isn't just finding himself throughout his life and adolescent stage but actually as a reader we are also discovering and finding out new things about Holden. He is showing the real side of him even though he likes to put this wall and ostracize himself from his "friends" he has this sort of uniqueness in telling people his life without including himself and his first point of view.
"I went down to the elevator again, and got a cab and told the driver t take me down to Ernie's. Ernie's is this night club in Greenwhich Village that my brother D.B. used to go to quite frequently before he went out to Hollywood and prostituted with himself." Pg.80
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me for a number of reasons. For one, his definition of the word "prostitute" is very fascinating. From this quote it tells me that people who make themselves known, and out there like celebrities, in Holden's book, is considered a prostitute. This plays a part of how he views the concept of movies, and Hollywood. He doesn't like 'big shots' and people who have fame. This indicates how Holden works, which is kind of contradicting. He wanted to get with a stripper, danced and kissed a blonde chick at a nightclub, and yet that doesn't go under his definition of a prostitute? And being a big shot is? Very confusing, is what I describe Holden...fascinating, but confusing.
"All of a sudden, on my way out to the lobby, old Jane Gallagher on the brain again.I got her on and I couldn't get her of." (p 76)
ReplyDeleteI thought this line was really interesting and it stood out to me the most. Holden cannot stop thinking about Jane it is like almost impossible to not think about her because it is pretty obvious that he does like Jane and that he does like her a lot because he feels a strong connection with her. He can just be himself when he is around her he doesn't have to lie to her because she knows him really well. I think Jane is a really special person to Holden because he can express his ideas and opinions around her and he just feels so comfortable when he is with her. He can share his feelings and emotions because he knows Jane won't judge him for who he truly is. which is also why Holden can't stop thinking about the fact that maybe Stradlater did have sex with Jane but Holden knows Jane like a "book" and she would never give up her virginity because she has a lot of pride in her. Jane is one of the very few people in his life he can connect with that he fells close to. He and Jane had a very strong bond and friendship and he won't ever forget that.
I agree. I think Holden does know Jane like the back of his hand and I don't think Jane would do this to him because I think Jane does have a clue that he likes her. Jane knowing that he likes her wouldn't have done anything with Stradlater. I think he was just buffing to make Holden mad. Holden can trust Jane but if he trust her so much then why didn't he call her when he got to the hotel ? That makes me wonder if he trust her as much as he says he does.
DeleteChris Zapata
DeleteI think Holden is just shy to fully talk to Jane because he's afraid he will embarrass himself in front of her, especially with information such as him being kick out of four schools. Much like how Holden lied to Ernest's mother, it would be hard for Holden to control himself and there's the possibility that Holden knows he's going to lie and doesn't want to lie to someone as special to him as Jane.
Quote: “I should’ve given them the freeze, after they did that, but the trouble was, I really felt like dancing, I’m very fond of dancing, sometimes, and that was one of the times. So all of a sudden, I sort of leaned over and said, “Would any of you girls would care to dance?”(Salinger pg. 70)
ReplyDeleteThis quote, stood out to me for the reason that I got to view Holden from a different point of view. For instance, in the previous chapter that I've read I pictured Holden as a very peculiar and boring person since he did things that were very strange in my view. Like for example, he would wear his hat and said that he used this hat to shoot or kill people and that was really strange in my view since it is something that not a normal person says. But after reading this quote, I got to see Holden from a whole different perspective since in this quote in my head Holden, he appears as this cool outgoing guy who not only came to a club to drink but you know to also have fun and get a bit crazy. Furthermore, this quote also stood out to me because I noticed how Holden mood change. For instance, when something occurs that Holden views as rude he immediately says something about it but in this case he didn't care about anyone or anything, Holden just seemed relaxed and ready to have fun. In conclusion, this quote stood out to me since it reminded me of myself in a way since at times I can be a lot like Holden but then I go into one of those moods that doesn't really bother to get upset by anything because I feel that life isn't that long and you have to live it to the fullest. In that way, I am like Holden who lets go of his stress and emotions and just tries to have fun for once in a while. Those are some reasons why this quote in particular stood out to me.
" Girls. Jesus Christ. They can drive you crazy.They really can."(pg73)
ReplyDeleteBy reading this line it popped many question in my mind. When Holden says"They" does that mean he's had previous girlfriends ? Was there an actual girlfriend that drove him crazy? Why did the author choose to write "they" and not specifically say"Bernice" ? I think the author may be trying to tell us something here because Holden doesn't really display his feelings for girls. So far he's only said he liked "Bernice" and Mrs. Morrow. So why does he say that girls drive him crazy if he's only liked 2 in the whole book? To me this is a symbol from the author like the red hunting hat. This line confused me and made me question why this was so important that the author had to write it in.
I slightly disagree with you. I don’t think that the fact that Holden refers to all girls as ‘they’ a symbol; I think its more as something the author will continue to come back to. Maybe all the girls Holden will meet throughout the book will drive him crazy. For example, Jane Gallagher drove him ‘crazy’ when she wouldn’t tell him why she was crying and she wouldn’t let him kiss her. He said, “some girls you practically never find out what’s the matter.” (79) this connects to what you said because he also refers to more than one girl driving him ‘crazy.’ We don’t know how many other experiences he’s had where a lot of girls drive him ‘crazy,’ but I think it will continue to pop up in the book, as girls seem to be an important part of Holden’s life right now.
Delete''My brother D.B.'s a writer and all, and my brother Allie, the one that died, that I told you about, was a wizard. I'm the only really dumb one."(pg.67)
ReplyDeleteThis quote was very contradictory because he says that he is considered dumb. Isn't there instances that we can infer that he is highly intelligent? "I'm quite illiterate but I read a lot." or "What knocks me out is a book that you're done reading it, you wish the author was a terrific friend" (pg.9). If he reads a lot, then he is not illiterate. This quote stood out to me that Holden looks down himself and not just others. In chapter 1 it is mentioned that D.B. is a writer which tell us he is really smart. However, Holden brings up this counter argument by saying "Now he's out of Hollywood being a prostitute. If there is one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even mention it to me."(pg.2) Holden continuously keeps repetitively bringing up the fact the Allie is dead. In my opinion, Does he wants other people to feel sympathy that he is dead or Does he want to repeat enough so that we don't think it is important? Holden is so introverted like Nyla says that he never want to explain his emotions towards anything this is one of the ways he expresses it, by talking about his family." "You should see her.You never saw a little kid so pretty and smart in your life." Holden describes Phoebe in way that he envys her and feels like he is dumb.
I agree with you that Holden seems to repeat things a lot throughout the book. I don't agree that he repeats it so that reader doesn't think its important. I think that Holden repeats these things to open up to the reader in a kind of hidden form. He repeats many things in different part of the book to talk about the past in way that makes the reader feel like they understand or know what he is talking about.
Delete“I had just about broken her heart. I really had. I was sorry as hell I’d kidded her.” (74)
ReplyDeleteWhy does he say this? Holden is obviously not sorry. If he was, he would have stopped lying after he lied to Ms. Murrow. Holden always feel sorry in the moment. He never learns from his mistakes. Later he says “Old Mart said she’d caught a glimpse of him. That killed me.” (74) When he lies it is ok but when someone else lies, it is not. This is called being a hypocrite. I am starting to get annoyed with Holden. In class discussions, we always make excuses for Holden's behavior, “Lying could be an escape tactic or maybe he is still trying to find himself.” Lying is lying. I hope that Holden is held accountable for his actions somewhere in this book.
“Old Phoebe. I swear to God you'd like her.” (page 68)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me. It stood out to me because it was the first time I felt that Holden really let the reader in about his life. I say this because, when Holden talks about his sister he adds memories he had with her and his dead brother, Allie. The memories he used felt so real unlike the time he talked about Allie because he really seemed interested to talk about it and he swore to the readers about liking her based on who she was. It also felt real because he talked about the good things he saw in his little sister and her flaws which lead to him to really go deep into talking about Jane, his crush. This quote also stood out to me because he said “Old”. In previous chapters Holden seem to use this word after he talks about a character for a while. His use of the word ‘old’ really stood out to me in this quote because it reminded me of the time he said that he didn't like old people. In my opinion, Holden doesn't like old people because he sees them as people who are about to die. By using the word ‘old’ in talking about the characters in the book it shows that he is aware that in the future they will die which could have became a reality to him after his brother’s death.
“I got old Jane Gallagher on the brain again. I got her on, and I couldn’t get her off. I sat down in this vomity-looking chair in the lobby and thought about her and Stradlater sitting in that old goddam Ed Banky’s car.” (76)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it really shows how much Jane really means to Holden, even though he doesn’t say it much out loud. I think this is true because when Holden was given the opportunity to meet Jane and say hello, he told Stradlater he wasn’t “in the mood.” (31) He tried to show Stradlater that he didn’t even care that much about Jane. However, the author shows that Holden actually keeps on thinking and thinking and thinking about Jane throughout the story. Holden says Jane was on his mind and he “couldn’t get her off.” Another way this quote connects to how much Jane means to Holden is that he kept on telling us the very tiny details of when they’d hang out, such as jane always keeping her kings in the back row and remember how she lost exactly eight balls the first time they played golf. He must care about Jane if he remembers all of these tiny unimportant details of when they were together. Also, the quote says “..And thought about her and Stradlater sitting in that old goddam Ed Banky’s car.” This is only part of the quote, and without barely telling us anything, we already know that Holden was furious about Jane and Stradlater in the car on their “date.” We can tell that Jane really means a lot to Holden just by the way the author displays Holden’s thoughts as he thinks about Jane.
Ahhhh you took mine ! I agree with you as well because Holden does remember little things about what they have done together thats not really important. He seems to really care about her. he even tries not to think of her but end up thinking about her
Delete"I thought of maybe hanging up if my parents answered, but that wouldn't've worked, either. My mother always knows it's me." pg.67
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read this my thought was he's camped around New York whenever he's been kicked out of school. This quote made me think how much leaving Pencey affected him because he wants to be alone and find himself before speaking to someone. He seems to be worried about what his parents will say to him, which brought to mind that at one point he called home and got in deep trouble. This quote shows us how much he actually wants to speak to someone but doesn't want to risk his parents finding out what happened. This also shows us how much he wants to speak to someone because he tells us when he's at penn station that he wanted to call someone. He tells us he wants to speak to his sister so this also shows how he's showing more of life and family because he explains why he wants to speak to his sister, she's good listener and can help with his problems. I think this quote shows more of his past, it shows he's made mistakes after being kicked out of his first few schools.
"You never even worried with Jane whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy. You really were." (Pg.79)
ReplyDeleteIn this post, Holden really expresses his caring side which you rarely see. He struggles to get her off his mind but he just can't. You can tell that he cares for her. They seemed to have a good relationship. I have also noticed that they didn't let small things such as holding hands and getting kissed all over didn't ruin their friendship. Holden started off chapter 11 talking about Jane. He probably misses her. But why not give her a call if you can't get her off your mind? I can also relate to this quote because some people have that one person who they can careless if their hand is sweaty or cold as long as your happy.
Chris Zapata
ReplyDelete“My mother didn’t think Jane was pretty, even. I did, though. I just liked the way she looked, that’s all.” (pg. 84)
I think that this line says some things about Holden. It shows how Holden doesn’t care about what some people think or have to say. Even his own mother. Holden doesn’t mind what his very own mother has to say about some girl Holden finds cute. Having this characteristic of not caring what people think can be good at some points, but at other points, you can be blind to the criticism around you.
i agree with what you say at the end because sometimes not caring means that you are strong and all but in some ways it can be helpful because you want to know your flaws so you know what to fix about your self to make your self more lovable.
Deleteso i told her i just saw Gary Cooper(74)
ReplyDeletethis is very confusing to me because instead of choosing a lie to make holden look better since he's such an incredible liar. he makes up a lie about a random famous dude that kinda backfires at him because she becomes even more uninterested then she already was. also even if your the best liar in the entire world people aren't gonna believe you if your lie is crazy and has no chance of coming true like a famous person visiting a random hotel.i was also confused on why he would choose Gary Cooper of all people like was that the first person he thought of in his head of does it have a meaning in some way.
“...and all of a sudden, I felt like getting the hell out of the place. It was too depressing.” (Page 80)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me, because I felt like it was very relatable. Sometimes—even if abruptly—we, teenagers, will get flashes of emotions telling us that something is too depressing . . . or even vice versa, really.
I must admit: as we are getting to know a bit more of Holden Caulfield’s character, I am beginning to awaken myself to the fact that Holden, although overly witty and sometimes shamefully sarcastic, is very practical in what he says. He does, in fact, make a lot of sense. As a reader, ultimately, I have grown to realize that I can relate to a lot of things Holden says, the quote above being a prime example.
"They loose their jobs if they get caught selling to a minor. I'm a goddamn minor." (pg. 70)
ReplyDeleteThe book deals with age and Holdens obsession with it. What shocks me about this quote is how Holden is so scared of old people yet doesn't like to be associated with young people. I think that Holden wants the power of being older without the aging and dying part. Also, when Holden was dancing with Bernice he becomes irritated when she asked his age, "That annoyed me, for some reason. "Oh, Christ. Don't spoil it," I said." (pg. 72) Holden seems to have an issue with age in general not only grownups. This may be because of the age he is in, 16, trying to figure out where he belongs and who he is, in addition to the fact of how he dealt with death at such an early age with someone so close to him. Holden comes off as either very childish or very adult-like, except when talking about girls. Even when he mentioned "you fall half in love with them, and then you never know where you are" (pg. 73) shows his teenage boy hormonal, confused side. Holdens way of thinking is very mature and interesting, but he tends to act like a child. This to me is confusing because its like you cant win with Holden. Also, I find it interesting that Holden starts off the chapter pretending to be a different age and lying to the girls, and yet mentions how he hates "phoniness" throughout the whole chapter. Holden seems like a very confused person with all the conflicts within him and tying to do if find himself.
''My brother D.B.'s a writer and all, and my brother Allie, the one that died, that I told you about, was a wizard. I'm the only really dumb one"
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because he was talking about how he feel stupid compared to all of his siblings because he is the only one the has been kicked out of 4 schools. I feel that this is why he judges people so harshly , he feels that he isn't good enough so before people judge him he judges them