"I felt so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old Phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, I felt so damn happy, if you want to know the truth. I don't know why. It was just that she looked so damn nice, the way she kept going around and around, in her blue coat and all. God, I wish you could've been there."
This quote stood out to me and made me think a lot because throughout this whole book, Holden has only showed the emotion of being upset at everyone, calling them phony, being angry, lying, and being depressed and alone. But here we see how Holden has a human and delicate side to him. This also brings up when started crying at home when Phoebe gave him the Christmas money. But we only see these emotions when it has to do with little kids. For example, when he saw the words "F You" in the museum and in the school, he got really upset because he knew that kids would see it and he didn't want them to because they're kids. Holden cares for little kids, especially his little sister, and little kids are the only things that actually make Holden happy and bring out the real Holden.
I completely agree with you! I also think the way he appreciates innocence and the way Phoebe acted throughout the rest of the last two chapters made me think that the only reason Holden probably decided to stick around, was because of the memories Holden had with D.B., Allie, and Phoebe. I strongly believe that these innocent memories saved Holden from running away.
I agree with you, I also think that Holden is enjoying spending time with her because he likes seeing her live her childhood. I also agree, that in the museum when he saw the "F- you" he got upset because he wanted to protect other kids innocence.
"We kept getting closer to the carousel and you could start to hear the music. It was playing "Old Marie!"...that's the one thing I like about carousels, they always play the same songs."-pg. 210
This quote was significant because Holden shows a lot of appreciation for the carousel. Since him, D.B., Allie, and Phoebe used to go there when they were younger really emphasized that sentimental value he had of the carousel. I also think that this is one thing that is kept the same from his childhood, not just because of the songs, but because of the memories. Holden "feels so damn happy"-pg. 213, watching Phoebe go around and around the carousel. This part really made me a bit teary because for once Holden is actually happy. I also think that seeing Phoebe go around and around on the carousel maybe gave Holden a sort of... false hope that there is a chance for his innocence to go around and be apart of his life for a while rather than mature into someone he's not. I also think this part goes back to the "Catcher in the rye" song. Maybe Phoebe is Holden's catcher in rye, and Holden is Phoebe's catcher in the rye so to speak. They both love each other so much that they provide a sense of reassurance and hope that someone will always be there to catch them right before the fall.
I agree with your analysis. Very much of this chapter is Holden appreciating childhood with the elementary school, Phoebe, and the zoo, but the carosel really did stick out. He really gets a kick out of watching Phoebe enjoy childhood and take advantage of it the way he never did.
"Somebody'd written 'F*** you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy." I knew from the second Holden enetered that school that he was going to feel a strange sense of nostalgia, with Holden's relationship with children and his love of youth. His reaction to the graffiti doesn't surprise me at all, especially because Holden always had this idea of preserving youth and taking youth for granted. I do remember incidents like this happening in my elementary school, incidents of people saying bad words or seeing bad words and the drama that came with it. Is thisruining youth or just a part of it that everyone experiences?
Holden feels as if that quote on the wall might break a child's innocence, he longs to preserve. He believes children aren't phony and he wants it to stay that way or until they grow up. Holden is stuck at a stage that he is grown, yet doesn't want to live on but stay a child and have the childhood he never got. So in response to that, he feels like his own childhood innocence was destroyed.
For an answer to your question: I think that everyone has a moment where they're exposes to something that makes them start their questioning which leads to them finding out things that make them "lose their innocence." I think that at some moment your youth is ruined or thrown away and you may not be an adult yet but you know that you are not a child anymore.
Holden may take it so harshly, because not only is it a desecration of a childhood memory, but almost a personal insult. When Holden goes on to say that his tombstone will have "F*ck You" written on it, he's saying that there's always someone who wants to put you down or hate on you because honestly it's kind of fun to hate. He doesn't realize how much like this he is, or maybe he does, and he doesn't want to be similar to a person like that, despising the world, and making everyone else's lives a little worse. Maybe he keeps this commentary inside because atleast that way no one has to be offended by it.
"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." (Page 214)
This was the best final sentence for Holden to say. He's a lonely person and people never listen to him and even though he repeats to himself, over and over, he wants people to understand and listen to him. Through the entire book, Holden says everyone is a phony but at random moments, he says he misses them a bit. For example, Sally Hayes, he thinks she's a phony yet he missed her enough to ask her on a date. Holden just doesn't trust anyone enough to say his own thoughts, that's why when he's having a conversation, he barely says two sentences, yet his thoughts are over a paragraph. In his thoughts, he sometimes gets feelings that he misses someone, yet doesn't want to admit it out loud. Holden knows, in his mind, that if he says he misses someone even maybe he doesn't, he'll end up missing them more than he wanted, like Ackley or Stradlater.
I agree with you. I think that Holden is sort of afraid to admit to him self what he cares so much about someone to actually miss their existence ( not in death, but just not being around). I think he means what once someone says it out loud that they miss someone else that they will miss the person more, just as you and Holden said.
"I had feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street,I thought that I'd just go down,down,down and nobody'd ever see me again." (pg. 197)
At first I thought. does holden think he is going to die because he thinks he has cancer after reading that article and nobody'd care? But then I thought of how he said he was depressed, and that it was the baddest it has ever been. So I thought he has reached another lowest point after what happened with Mr. Antolini.
I agree with you Selma. I also thought that that quote was kind of funny. I mean Holden thinks that he has cancer because of a little cut on his lip. It's a bit shocking because I never would've thought that Holden would've actually believed something like that. He's an independent thinker and doesn't really care for things like that. I wonder why all of a sudden he's thinking differently? Maybe it's just because he's in a bad place right now?
I think that he just reached a breaking point. It seems like he just had all these horrible things build up, and now he's sleeping in a train station, feeling incredibly sick. I think that the whole story and all these troubling events just build up and he doesn't know where to turn, so he overreacts over the littlest things.
"Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. I'd say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie." And then when I'd reach the other side of the street without disappearing, I'd thank him."
This is one of my favorite quotes in the book. This is where we see Holden really showing something about himself. We see Holden fearing death. He fears that when he dies no one will remember or care about him. Holden believes that if he acts like a rebel he might be remembered as this kid who didn't follow the rule. I also think that it's really sweet for him to be talking to Allie about not letting him disappear. It shows that he still has trust in Allie and that Allie (in Holden's mind) is sort of helping him through his vulnerable moments. Like Allie is his guardian angel or something. Allie holds all of Holden's trust. Allie is also like Holden's guide keeping Holden away from death and away from the bad parts in life. Which is not really good because that's what is keeping Holden from growing up.
I agree. This quote was one of my favorites as well. Holden keeps Allie in the back of his mind for comfort. I also agree with him fearing death. He mentions death several times in the last two chapters. He says he it so casually, but we realize he's scared in this quote.
"All of a sudden I wanted her to cry till her eyes practically dropped out. I almost hated her." (Page.207) This quote clues you in into how unhinged and overwrought Holden has become. The one person who knows, appreciates, and loves him unconditionally he now almost hates? He feels all extremes in his emotions he's paranoid, hateful, and feels happiness all in one afternoon. What is Phoebe's crime? She who has given her brother the last of her Christmas money, is so concerned about her brother, that she is prepared to sacrifice everything for him. My thought on this is... couldn't have Holden expressed himself in more meaningful positive way? Hitchhiking with a ten year old girl with a large suitcase is far from practical. However, he could have made her see his point of view in a less hurtful way. When Holden is prepared to hurt his sister even momentarily he is not the Holden we have been led to believe he is. He has lost his emotional compass.
I completely agree with you. I think Holden had no reason for yelling at Phoebe, and was just expressing all his anger on her. He does that because he thinks that Phoebe is the only person who will also love him, so its okay for him to do that because he won't ruin another relationship. Also, he is so close minded that he can't even consider Phoebe coming with him, because its not what he originally thought.
I agree, but I believe that he got angry at Phoebe for wanting to grow up and go on this journey with him, because he realizes that this is something he needs to do on his own. Phoebe still has this precious time to do whatever she wants and have no responsibilities whatsoever, and Holden wants her to embrace that because he missed out on that because of Allie's death. He is investing his broken hopes and dreams into Phoebe because he knows she will turn out better than he did.
" He drove over last Saturday ... Anyways, one time when she went to the ladies' room way the hell down in the other wing, D.B. asked me what I thought about all this stuff I was just finished telling you about." P. 213 ( Beginning of CH. 26 )
This is significant because I think Holden is in a mental institution. He says that D.B. went to visit him, and his girlfriend went to the bathroom " all the way down in the other wing ". I think Holden wrote this book in the institution. Throughout the book, the reader could tell that he is crazy , and he might be getting help now. I wonder if he ever changed. Do you think he left as a "normal" person ?
“The one thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall of, they fall off, but it’s bad if you say anything to them.” (p. 274) This stood out to me because I think this might have happened to Holden. He was reaching for something, and or trying to accomplish something, and someone told him he couldn’t do it. He was never given the chance to make mistakes, and felt forced to be this perfect person and fit the mold of society. I don’t think he was allowed to make mistakes when he was younger, so he could never learn, and ended up making more when he was older, and they affected his life more. This made it harder for him to grow up, and caused him to have regrets on things he didn’t do in the past, and things he did now, because he didn’t know not to. I think Holden was finally able to grow up when he realized his mistakes and was able to grow from them. But what happened in Holden’s childhood, so that he never got to make these mistakes?
I agree that Holden is pressured into being this perfect person that society had created. I also think this line is significant because Holden's perspective has kind of changed. He used to say that he wanted to be the person who "catched the kids that were falling". It made me wonder if Holden accepted the fact that children have to grow up at one point in their life.
You make an interesting point, Holden speaks of his dead brother as having had a profound impact . Additionally, the relationship with his parents is very strained. He speaks of his mother having headaches all the time and his farther seems to be a remote punishing figure. So in a sense,the insecurity that Holden has about himself ,and the lack of achievement he feels, may have originated at home.
"Every time I came to the end of a block and stepped off the goddam curb, I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again." Pg. 197 This quote stood out to me because it was surprising to finally see Holden concerned about his own well-being. He seemed very worried that he wouldn’t make it to the next block which to me kind of symbolized his fear of the unknown. I also found it interesting that he continued to walk really far because he was afraid to stop himself. It made me wonder if this was because he felt some sort of accomplishment from making it to the next block safely. I think Holden is constantly wondering about what is going to happen next and doesn’t like the feeling of not knowing what to expect in the future. He probably feels unprepared moving from adolescence to adulthood which is why he has a hard time accepting the responsibilities of being an adult.
"You can't never find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You might think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write '- you' right under your nose." - page 210
This quote leads me to farther think that Holden has trust issues. Holden was starting to be a little more optimistic when he went to the museum but when he read that it ruined it for him. It's kind of sad just because for once Holden was so fascinated and happy. I think that the '-you' reminded Holden of growing up. As a child you don't know what that means because you're innocent. When Holden went back to the museum that he loved as a child and was starting to enjoy again, seeing the '-you' also made him realize that he's no longer a child, and he's no longer innocent. This is something Holden just doesn't want to face and the fact that he was able to relive his childhood and then had it taken away made it all sadder and worse. Since that was so meaningful to Holden it led him to say that whenever you find some thing you like, people sneak up on you and ruin it. It makes me feel bad because this was such a meaningful thing to Holden. I just wish that Holden would stop thinking about the bad things and just enjoy the good things.
"I thought you were supposed to be Benedict Arnold in that play all all...Whuddaya want to do? Not be the in play, for gods sake?" Page: 207
I think this is important because it shows that Holden actually cares. At this point of the story Phoebe just told Holden that she wanted to leave with him. Even though he gets a long great with her he said no and used the Benedict Arnold excuse. He cares about her future and wants her to susceptible. He wants her to be in the play and be something great instead of roaming the western part of country and living in a wooden cabin with him, filling up gas tanks. The part shows a role play switch, Holden finally becomes the big brother to Phoebe and makes a decision instead of Phoebe "being" the older sibling.
Holden wants Phoebe to succeed in the way that he did not. He does not want her to ever feel the way he feels. He pushes her toward the play, trying to push her to be normal and fit in. He wants her to be happy, so he wants her to be nothing like him. That is why he is so angered by the fact that she wants to come with him to the West.
"Then I started doing something else. Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. Id say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie."... I kept going and all. I was sort if afraid to stop".
All Holden want is to feel excepted. He hated boarding school and 'normal' society because he did not feel like he fit it. He has always been an outsider, and oddball, even if people didn't immediately notice it. Holden wants to belong in a society where he feels valued. He loves Phoebe for many reasons, but especially because she knows him, and loves him, just the way he is. She accepts Holden the way no one else really does. Holden is losing his already slipping grip on society and normality. He does not know who to turn to or what his future will bring. He feels lost and alone. Holden looks toward Allie, who he think of as a kind of guardian angle, to help him. He wants to feel accepted so that people would notice if he disappears. It is not the disappearing that frightens him. He is terrified that if he did disappeared, no one would even notice.
I really agree on with you as to how he sees Allie as a kind of guardian angel, and how he is really lost and confused. I think Holden prays to Allie when he crosses over the curb because its his only way of knowing he is actually there-in the present, right now.
"You hate to tell the new stuff to somebody around a hundered years old. They dont like to hear it" -pg. 262
This line stood out to me because I thought it was holden trying to protect someone. Say someone liked a celeberty and the celebrtey did drugs, but said person didn't know and if you tell the person then they would be devastatded. This situation is obviosly less drastic but he didn't want to let her know that he hated that school and everyone in that place. He's starting to care.
"I almost hated her. I think I hated her most because she wouldn't be in that play any more if she went away with me." Pg 207 I really like this quote. I feel like Holden is realizing that someone cares about him. Throughout the book, anyone who's liked him has turned out badly. But Phoebe is willing to go with him. She's willing to skip her play, which she seems to cares about a ton, to go with Holden. I feel like Holden is just learning how to cope with someone caring for him. He reacts negatively because this hasn't happened to him before. He doesn't want her to because he thinks he doesn't deserve it.
I really agree with you. I also think that this line was interesting because Phoebe is acting just like Holden, and that makes him angry. He doesn't want Phoebe to turn out like he did, to the point where her decisions make him angry.
"Somebody'd written "F**k you" on the wall It drove me damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and al the other little kids would see it" (pg. 260)
This quote supports Holden's role as a protector of innocence and children. Holden is so absoulutely disgusted by the fact that children will see this profanity in their school building that he says that he wanted to kill whoever wrote it. I think that in this chapter the part when he mentions how he'd hide hi kids if he had any was very important. He wants to hide children from the cruelty and "F**k you" of society. He thinks that society ruins childrens innocence just like he feels like it ruined his. So in his perfect world he shields his children from this harsh society and raises them and nurtures them to be different from it. I think it's a really interesting point that he makes here. You can say that all children grow up and have to become older at some point. But if Holden shielded them from all that would they be any different? Or might they just develop in the same way? I think that protection from society could make the children more innocent but I also think that protection and under exposure would make the children ignorant to what's really going on in the world.
I liked this line too. I thought it showed that Holden was not going to give up anymore, and that he would accept that he didn't have to do it alone. While he was walking "forever" on those cross walks he was talking to Allie and thanking him when he got to the other end of the street.
"Every time I came to the end of a block and stepped off the goddam curb, I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again."
This passage to me was Holden's final goodbyes in his head. Having such a thought that you will disappear if you cross the curb is to bizarre and so strange, it really makea you think about Holden's well being. I think Holden still has severe depression and he even said that he would thank Allie that he didn't disappear off the sidewalk. I think Holden is holding onto the depression and the death of Allie, and it just slipped out now.
"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." Chapter 26
This quote stood out to me because it is the first time Holden gives the audience advice. He goes back in time to reflect on everything that has happened, every little lie he has told us. It's ironic because he never said he missed anything he left behind in the past. In fact he always tells us that he hated everything and he never wanted to go back to Pencey or any of his past schools. Now he's telling us he does truly miss the people he hated. Maybe he never really hated these people in the first place. Holden never truly moved on from his past and the depression that followed it. Once he did move on, it gave him a another perspective. He was so used to criticizing everyone, now when there not around he's sort of "healing". He's coping and its helping him realize who he was before and the person he could become. Moving on from your past is a processes of learning from the mistakes of your past. Most people in our society do it to move on and focus on the future ahead. Moving on from your pass is important, especially for Holden, because he's now has to deal with the consequences of failing, dropping out and lying.
I agree. I think that Holden has finally accepted the past and is living in the moment. Holden is now on a journey to find out who he really is and I think that whatever he ends up being like he'll be fine with it.
I disagree. I think he did hate them or maybe just disliked them. However, I think that he missed them because they taught him so many lessons and gave him so much experience. Frank McCourt, author of "Angela's Ashes," said he would never change his childhood because it inspired him. He said he never would have been able to write a book without it being so rough. Now Holden had a very privileged life. But I don't think he would ever change his childhood either because it taught him things and made him a better, more mature person.
"'You know how the Egyptians buried their dead?' I asked the one kid. 'Naa.' 'Well, you should. It's very interesting. They wrapped their faces up in these cloths that were treated with some secret chemical. That way they cold be buried in their tombs for thousands of years and their faces wouldn't rot or anything. Nobody knows how to do it except for the Egyptians. Even modern science.'" pg. 203 I found this line significent because it shows how Holden actually paid attention in his classes at Pencey. Earlier in the book, when his teacher is reading the composition he wrote to him, it really seemed like Holden was clueless to what he was learning. But this showed the reader that Holden was actually listening the whole time, he just didn't apply himself. It shows Holden's potential in life, and it gave me hope about where he is going. I also found this significent because of the whole idea of things remaining the same. These mummies stay frozen in time for thousands of years, similar to the statues in the Museum of Natural History. Holden finds this comforting, because change has always meant something so deeply negative to him. That made me think about why people like/don't like change. What can be so upsetting about it, especially to Holden?
"I was sort of afraid that she'd fall off the goddam horse... but I didn't... The thing with kids is... if they fall off, they fall off." Page 211.
I think that this quote is significant because it shows how Holden realizes that everybody grows up and he also sees that getting older and more mature is not such a bad thing. During this section Holden is watching Phoebe on the carousal and in that moment he becomes happy. Seeing Phoebe reach for the golden ring on the carousal makes him finally see that losing your childhood innocence is going to happen to everyone and everyone eventually falls. Falling into adulthood is a thing that shouldn't be rejected it should be accepted as what it is. A lot of people are falling right now. Not literally but metaphorical. What I mean is that teenagers are going through life right now discovering who they are and what they believe in and sometimes they have to take risks and those risks lead to falls. Falling helps expose us to the real world and helps us find our true identities. I think Holden sees this now. He finally sees growing up as a normal thing.
"'Whuddaya wanna do want to do? Not be in the play, for God's sake?' That made her cry even harder. I was glad." page 207
The first thing I noticed when I read this was that Phoebe was acting exactly like Holden, and I think that Holden was terrified by that. He doesn't want her to turn out like him in any way, so he was scared when Phoebe wanted to drop out of school at such a young age. This relates back to Holden wanting to be the "catcher in the rye," wanting to protect the innocence of children. He doesn't want Phoebe to follow in his footsteps at all, and that's why it upset him so much that she didn't want to go to school anymore.
"The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them." chapter 25
I choose this quote because it relates back to another quote "I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.". The second quote has to do with Holden trying to preserve children's innocence and prevent them from falling into adulthood. Holden wanted to be this "catcher in the rye" to protect Phoebe from growing up. The quote on chapter 25 is said by Holden while he is watching Phoebe ride a carousel. This quote is the opposite of the the older quote. Holden is letting Phoebe go and fall into adulthood. This is a very big transition Holden makes and this quote really shows how Holden grew up and moved on. He did the right thing by letting Phoebe lose her innocence because in reality, you can't be a kid forever.
"your not going. Now, shut up! Give me that bag, I said. I took the bag off her. I was almost set to hit her."(267)
This quote stood out to me because it showed how much phoebe loves and admires Holden. She is willing to give up her entire life just to live with Holden out in a shack in the woods. She would have to leave behind her family, friends, and education. The reason Holden exploded when he heard that she wanted to come along was because he acknowledged her admiration for him and saw that he was her role model. The last person Holden would want phoebe to be like when she grew up was himself. Holden didn't want her to grow up and become depressed and messed up and not have a future. He knows she is smart and intelligent and she has so many opportunities that she shouldn't squander because she wants to be like her older brother. Holden isn't going to take her future from her. That is why Holden got so mad at phoebe when she asked to come.
"I thought maybe I might stop in a phone booth and give old Jane Gallagher a buzz before I started bumming my way west, but I wasn't in the mood." PAGE 202
This quote was significant to me because it is close to the end of the book and Holden sort of goes over all this stuff in chapter 25. With Mr. Antolini and how he thinks he just stroked Holden's face "just for the hell of it." With the "F*** YOU"s everywhere and how he wants to save all of the children from this foul language and let them keep their innocence by being their Catcher in the Rye. With his sister and their bitter sweet relationship because they always fight but they never stay angry. With his entertainment in lying to people and messing with them and their ignorance. And then he goes back to Jane Gallagher. In this whole book he talks about Jane Gallagher as this girl who he is basically in love with. She is like the perfect girl for him and he implies constantly that he doesn't deserve her because she is better than him. He looks at himself as trash. He is always making up an excuse not to call/talk to/see her and the major excuse that he uses throughout is "I am not in the mood." He said this again for the last time on page 202 and it showed that although he has grown as a person in some ways, he still has a lot more growing to do as a person. Mr. Antolini talked about how immaturity is someone who dies nobly for a cause, and maturity is someone who lives humbly for a cause. I think that as he has more experience both good and bad he grows and becomes more mature. Luce asked him if he would ever grow up. I think he will and he will won't. He says in the beginning of the last chapter that what school he is going to next and how he will do do not matter to him. Will he ever realize that he can't keep trying to live this impossible dream of saving every child from losing their innocence, of being every child's Catcher in the Rye? That is the name of his book. He will probably eventually make a living and have a life. But I think he will always be "The Catcher in the Rye" in his mind.
"i went down by a different staircase, and I saw another "Fuck you" on the wall. I tried to rub it off with my hand again, nut this one was scratched on with a knife or something. It wouldn't come off. its hopeless anyway. if you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'fuck you' signs in the world."
This passage stood out to my because of the truth in it. This passage is saying that every single time you see something you do don't personally like, you can't always change it. Sometimes you just have to deal with it and move on.The vulgar writing carved on the wall represents all the things in the world that bother Holden. He doesn't have the power to change the people around him. He can only change how he choses to react.
"That's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any." p. 204 I think this quote is significant because I think it is a metaphor for Holden's life and that his life is never going to be nice and peaceful. He keeps thinking about being deaf-mute and living near the woods and having a peaceful life, and I think that this quote shows that even if he does do that, it won't ever be completely nice and peaceful. He will just have to find a way to make the places he's in more peaceful.
I think that the quote you chose symbolizes that wherever Holden turns in life, he finds phony, or not peaceful. This is why he wants to run away somewhere, like the woods, where it is peaceful, and all his problems will "disappear." He is running away from the pressures society puts on teenagers, something I can relate to at times.
"Every time I came to the end of the block and stepped off the goddam curb, I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again," (p.197).
I feel like this quote was especially significant because it metaphorically showed that Holden is scared of never growing up. He worries that if he never matures and finds his place in life, then he'll be stuck forever in this sort of almost limbo like stage, between childhood and adulthood. Holden want's to stay a child and remain innocent, yet at the same time is scared of growing up, not knowing what to do, or where to go. Also, the section of the quote about falling down, and "nobody'd ever see me again," further revealed Holden's loneliness. He is worried that no one will catch him and he will be all alone. Which is ironic, because many, many people throughout the story have tried to pick Holden back up, or "catch" him, including Mr. Spencer, Mr. Antolini, and so on. But Holden rejects them and their advice.
"'Yeah.' I said. I meant it, too. I wasn't lying to her. I really did go home afterwards. 'Hurry up, now,' I said. 'The thing's starting.'" p. 212
The first teacher I read this book with told me that Phoebe is the most important character, much more than Holden himself. She is not more important than him, but clearly the most important to him, as in who he cares for, and as in who has had the greatest affect on him. The hunting hat was Holden's protection of and connection to his innocence. When he hands it over to Phoebe, he's realizing that he's done with his childhood. Earlier, many people discussed Holden and Phoebe's roles within their relationship as being switched. Before, this was true. But as Holden realizes that he can't live off his kid sister's Christmas money, the roles move back to normal, and were probably always that way in an underlying sense. When she wants to come along with him, Holden realizes that what he does has a huge influence on her. He can't give up on life because she'll just follow the same path, and he wants the best for her. Phoebe's disappointment in Holden as well as her blind emulation pushes Holden to mature. To face his family and his failures. Without her, he'd be stuck as an unhappy adolescent, indefinitely.
Oscar Belkin-Sessler October 25, 2012 The Catcher in the Rye chapter’s final chapters
“I sort of miss everybody I told about. Even old Stradlater and Ackley, for instance. I think I even miss that goddam Maurice. Its funny. Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.” (PG. 214)
This is one of the rarest moments in this book. Holden looks back at his past, not in an angry way, nor cynical way, he looks back at his past for what it was and appreciates it. At this moment we, the reader, realize that everything that happened, the good and the bad, was for the best. Holden has come so far, and learned so much. He has come from a place where he feels hatred towards someone to where he misses them. There are a lot of bad things in life, for Holden it’s the phonies, the fakes, and the “prostitutes” but there are also a lot of amazing and beautiful things. Life is a package and you have to have all the parts. After the brief period of time spent with his sister, he realizes that running away from his problems wont solve them, he also realizes that he needs to stay for his sister and the things that “trump the phonies” Now Holden can look back and find all his experiences funny, and he is able to miss them. These experiences shaped him, and helped him realize new things that in the future will save his path, and save him from not falling into the sidewalk.
"I felt so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old Phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, I felt so damn happy, if you want to know the truth. I don't know why. It was just that she looked so damn nice, the way she kept going around and around, in her blue coat and all. God, I wish you could've been there."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me and made me think a lot because throughout this whole book, Holden has only showed the emotion of being upset at everyone, calling them phony, being angry, lying, and being depressed and alone. But here we see how Holden has a human and delicate side to him. This also brings up when started crying at home when Phoebe gave him the Christmas money. But we only see these emotions when it has to do with little kids. For example, when he saw the words "F You" in the museum and in the school, he got really upset because he knew that kids would see it and he didn't want them to because they're kids. Holden cares for little kids, especially his little sister, and little kids are the only things that actually make Holden happy and bring out the real Holden.
I completely agree with you! I also think the way he appreciates innocence and the way Phoebe acted throughout the rest of the last two chapters made me think that the only reason Holden probably decided to stick around, was because of the memories Holden had with D.B., Allie, and Phoebe. I strongly believe that these innocent memories saved Holden from running away.
DeleteI agree with you, I also think that Holden is enjoying spending time with her because he likes seeing her live her childhood. I also agree, that in the museum when he saw the "F- you" he got upset because he wanted to protect other kids innocence.
Delete"We kept getting closer to the carousel and you could start to hear the music. It was playing "Old Marie!"...that's the one thing I like about carousels, they always play the same songs."-pg. 210
ReplyDeleteThis quote was significant because Holden shows a lot of appreciation for the carousel. Since him, D.B., Allie, and Phoebe used to go there when they were younger really emphasized that sentimental value he had of the carousel. I also think that this is one thing that is kept the same from his childhood, not just because of the songs, but because of the memories. Holden "feels so damn happy"-pg. 213, watching Phoebe go around and around the carousel. This part really made me a bit teary because for once Holden is actually happy. I also think that seeing Phoebe go around and around on the carousel maybe gave Holden a sort of... false hope that there is a chance for his innocence to go around and be apart of his life for a while rather than mature into someone he's not. I also think this part goes back to the "Catcher in the rye" song. Maybe Phoebe is Holden's catcher in rye, and Holden is Phoebe's catcher in the rye so to speak. They both love each other so much that they provide a sense of reassurance and hope that someone will always be there to catch them right before the fall.
I agree with your analysis. Very much of this chapter is Holden appreciating childhood with the elementary school, Phoebe, and the zoo, but the carosel really did stick out. He really gets a kick out of watching Phoebe enjoy childhood and take advantage of it the way he never did.
Delete"Somebody'd written 'F*** you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy."
ReplyDeleteI knew from the second Holden enetered that school that he was going to feel a strange sense of nostalgia, with Holden's relationship with children and his love of youth. His reaction to the graffiti doesn't surprise me at all, especially because Holden always had this idea of preserving youth and taking youth for granted. I do remember incidents like this happening in my elementary school, incidents of people saying bad words or seeing bad words and the drama that came with it. Is thisruining youth or just a part of it that everyone experiences?
Holden feels as if that quote on the wall might break a child's innocence, he longs to preserve. He believes children aren't phony and he wants it to stay that way or until they grow up. Holden is stuck at a stage that he is grown, yet doesn't want to live on but stay a child and have the childhood he never got. So in response to that, he feels like his own childhood innocence was destroyed.
DeleteFor an answer to your question: I think that everyone has a moment where they're exposes to something that makes them start their questioning which leads to them finding out things that make them "lose their innocence." I think that at some moment your youth is ruined or thrown away and you may not be an adult yet but you know that you are not a child anymore.
DeleteHolden may take it so harshly, because not only is it a desecration of a childhood memory, but almost a personal insult. When Holden goes on to say that his tombstone will have "F*ck You" written on it, he's saying that there's always someone who wants to put you down or hate on you because honestly it's kind of fun to hate. He doesn't realize how much like this he is, or maybe he does, and he doesn't want to be similar to a person like that, despising the world, and making everyone else's lives a little worse. Maybe he keeps this commentary inside because atleast that way no one has to be offended by it.
Delete"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." (Page 214)
ReplyDeleteThis was the best final sentence for Holden to say. He's a lonely person and people never listen to him and even though he repeats to himself, over and over, he wants people to understand and listen to him. Through the entire book, Holden says everyone is a phony but at random moments, he says he misses them a bit. For example, Sally Hayes, he thinks she's a phony yet he missed her enough to ask her on a date. Holden just doesn't trust anyone enough to say his own thoughts, that's why when he's having a conversation, he barely says two sentences, yet his thoughts are over a paragraph. In his thoughts, he sometimes gets feelings that he misses someone, yet doesn't want to admit it out loud. Holden knows, in his mind, that if he says he misses someone even maybe he doesn't, he'll end up missing them more than he wanted, like Ackley or Stradlater.
I agree with you. I think that Holden is sort of afraid to admit to him self what he cares so much about someone to actually miss their existence ( not in death, but just not being around). I think he means what once someone says it out loud that they miss someone else that they will miss the person more, just as you and Holden said.
Delete"I had feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street,I thought that I'd just go down,down,down and nobody'd ever see me again." (pg. 197)
ReplyDeleteAt first I thought. does holden think he is going to die because he thinks he has cancer after reading that article and nobody'd care? But then I thought of how he said he was depressed, and that it was the baddest it has ever been. So I thought he has reached another lowest point after what happened with Mr. Antolini.
I agree with you Selma. I also thought that that quote was kind of funny. I mean Holden thinks that he has cancer because of a little cut on his lip. It's a bit shocking because I never would've thought that Holden would've actually believed something like that. He's an independent thinker and doesn't really care for things like that. I wonder why all of a sudden he's thinking differently? Maybe it's just because he's in a bad place right now?
DeleteI think that he just reached a breaking point. It seems like he just had all these horrible things build up, and now he's sleeping in a train station, feeling incredibly sick. I think that the whole story and all these troubling events just build up and he doesn't know where to turn, so he overreacts over the littlest things.
Delete"Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. I'd say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie." And then when I'd reach the other side of the street without disappearing, I'd thank him."
ReplyDeleteThis is one of my favorite quotes in the book. This is where we see Holden really showing something about himself. We see Holden fearing death. He fears that when he dies no one will remember or care about him. Holden believes that if he acts like a rebel he might be remembered as this kid who didn't follow the rule. I also think that it's really sweet for him to be talking to Allie about not letting him disappear. It shows that he still has trust in Allie and that Allie (in Holden's mind) is sort of helping him through his vulnerable moments. Like Allie is his guardian angel or something. Allie holds all of Holden's trust. Allie is also like Holden's guide keeping Holden away from death and away from the bad parts in life. Which is not really good because that's what is keeping Holden from growing up.
I agree. This quote was one of my favorites as well. Holden keeps Allie in the back of his mind for comfort. I also agree with him fearing death. He mentions death several times in the last two chapters. He says he it so casually, but we realize he's scared in this quote.
Delete"All of a sudden I wanted her to cry till her eyes practically dropped out. I almost hated her."
ReplyDelete(Page.207)
This quote clues you in into how unhinged and overwrought Holden has become. The one person who knows, appreciates, and loves him unconditionally he now almost hates? He feels all extremes in his emotions he's paranoid, hateful, and feels happiness all in one afternoon.
What is Phoebe's crime? She who has given her brother the last of her Christmas money, is so concerned about her brother, that she is prepared to sacrifice everything for him. My thought on this is... couldn't have Holden expressed himself in more meaningful positive way? Hitchhiking with a ten year old girl with a large suitcase is far from practical. However, he could have made her see his point of view in a less hurtful way. When Holden is prepared to hurt his sister even momentarily he is not the Holden we have been led to believe he is. He has lost his emotional compass.
I completely agree with you. I think Holden had no reason for yelling at Phoebe, and was just expressing all his anger on her. He does that because he thinks that Phoebe is the only person who will also love him, so its okay for him to do that because he won't ruin another relationship. Also, he is so close minded that he can't even consider Phoebe coming with him, because its not what he originally thought.
DeleteI agree, but I believe that he got angry at Phoebe for wanting to grow up and go on this journey with him, because he realizes that this is something he needs to do on his own. Phoebe still has this precious time to do whatever she wants and have no responsibilities whatsoever, and Holden wants her to embrace that because he missed out on that because of Allie's death. He is investing his broken hopes and dreams into Phoebe because he knows she will turn out better than he did.
Delete" He drove over last Saturday ... Anyways, one time when she went to the ladies' room way the hell down in the other wing, D.B. asked me what I thought about all this stuff I was just finished telling you about." P. 213 ( Beginning of CH. 26 )
ReplyDeleteThis is significant because I think Holden is in a mental institution. He says that D.B. went to visit him, and his girlfriend went to the bathroom " all the way down in the other wing ". I think Holden wrote this book in the institution. Throughout the book, the reader could tell that he is crazy , and he might be getting help now. I wonder if he ever changed. Do you think he left as a "normal" person ?
“The one thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall of, they fall off, but it’s bad if you say anything to them.” (p. 274)
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because I think this might have happened to Holden. He was reaching for something, and or trying to accomplish something, and someone told him he couldn’t do it. He was never given the chance to make mistakes, and felt forced to be this perfect person and fit the mold of society. I don’t think he was allowed to make mistakes when he was younger, so he could never learn, and ended up making more when he was older, and they affected his life more. This made it harder for him to grow up, and caused him to have regrets on things he didn’t do in the past, and things he did now, because he didn’t know not to. I think Holden was finally able to grow up when he realized his mistakes and was able to grow from them. But what happened in Holden’s childhood, so that he never got to make these mistakes?
I agree that Holden is pressured into being this perfect person that society had created. I also think this line is significant because Holden's perspective has kind of changed. He used to say that he wanted to be the person who "catched the kids that were falling". It made me wonder if Holden accepted the fact that children have to grow up at one point in their life.
DeleteYou make an interesting point, Holden speaks of his dead brother as having had a profound impact . Additionally, the relationship with his parents is very strained. He speaks of his mother having headaches all the time and his farther seems to be a remote punishing figure. So in a sense,the insecurity that Holden has about himself ,and the lack of achievement he feels, may have originated at home.
Delete"Every time I came to the end of a block and stepped off the goddam curb, I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again." Pg. 197
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it was surprising to finally see Holden concerned about his own well-being. He seemed very worried that he wouldn’t make it to the next block which to me kind of symbolized his fear of the unknown. I also found it interesting that he continued to walk really far because he was afraid to stop himself. It made me wonder if this was because he felt some sort of accomplishment from making it to the next block safely. I think Holden is constantly wondering about what is going to happen next and doesn’t like the feeling of not knowing what to expect in the future. He probably feels unprepared moving from adolescence to adulthood which is why he has a hard time accepting the responsibilities of being an adult.
"You can't never find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You might think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write '- you' right under your nose." - page 210
ReplyDeleteThis quote leads me to farther think that Holden has trust issues. Holden was starting to be a little more optimistic when he went to the museum but when he read that it ruined it for him. It's kind of sad just because for once Holden was so fascinated and happy. I think that the '-you' reminded Holden of growing up. As a child you don't know what that means because you're innocent. When Holden went back to the museum that he loved as a child and was starting to enjoy again, seeing the '-you' also made him realize that he's no longer a child, and he's no longer innocent. This is something Holden just doesn't want to face and the fact that he was able to relive his childhood and then had it taken away made it all sadder and worse. Since that was so meaningful to Holden it led him to say that whenever you find some thing you like, people sneak up on you and ruin it. It makes me feel bad because this was such a meaningful thing to Holden. I just wish that Holden would stop thinking about the bad things and just enjoy the good things.
"I thought you were supposed to be Benedict Arnold in that play all all...Whuddaya want to do? Not be the in play, for gods sake?" Page: 207
ReplyDeleteI think this is important because it shows that Holden actually cares. At this point of the story Phoebe just told Holden that she wanted to leave with him. Even though he gets a long great with her he said no and used the Benedict Arnold excuse. He cares about her future and wants her to susceptible. He wants her to be in the play and be something great instead of roaming the western part of country and living in a wooden cabin with him, filling up gas tanks. The part shows a role play switch, Holden finally becomes the big brother to Phoebe and makes a decision instead of Phoebe "being" the older sibling.
Holden wants Phoebe to succeed in the way that he did not. He does not want her to ever feel the way he feels. He pushes her toward the play, trying to push her to be normal and fit in. He wants her to be happy, so he wants her to be nothing like him. That is why he is so angered by the fact that she wants to come with him to the West.
Delete"Then I started doing something else. Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. Id say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie."... I kept going and all. I was sort if afraid to stop".
ReplyDeleteAll Holden want is to feel excepted. He hated boarding school and 'normal' society because he did not feel like he fit it. He has always been an outsider, and oddball, even if people didn't immediately notice it. Holden wants to belong in a society where he feels valued. He loves Phoebe for many reasons, but especially because she knows him, and loves him, just the way he is. She accepts Holden the way no one else really does. Holden is losing his already slipping grip on society and normality. He does not know who to turn to or what his future will bring. He feels lost and alone. Holden looks toward Allie, who he think of as a kind of guardian angle, to help him. He wants to feel accepted so that people would notice if he disappears. It is not the disappearing that frightens him. He is terrified that if he did disappeared, no one would even notice.
I really agree on with you as to how he sees Allie as a kind of guardian angel, and how he is really lost and confused. I think Holden prays to Allie when he crosses over the curb because its his only way of knowing he is actually there-in the present, right now.
Delete"You hate to tell the new stuff to somebody around a hundered years old. They dont like to hear it"
ReplyDelete-pg. 262
This line stood out to me because I thought it was holden trying to protect someone. Say someone liked a celeberty and the celebrtey did drugs, but said person didn't know and if you tell the person then they would be devastatded. This situation is obviosly less drastic but he didn't want to let her know that he hated that school and everyone in that place. He's starting to care.
"I almost hated her. I think I hated her most because she wouldn't be in that play any more if she went away with me." Pg 207
ReplyDeleteI really like this quote. I feel like Holden is realizing that someone cares about him. Throughout the book, anyone who's liked him has turned out badly. But Phoebe is willing to go with him. She's willing to skip her play, which she seems to cares about a ton, to go with Holden. I feel like Holden is just learning how to cope with someone caring for him. He reacts negatively because this hasn't happened to him before. He doesn't want her to because he thinks he doesn't deserve it.
I really agree with you. I also think that this line was interesting because Phoebe is acting just like Holden, and that makes him angry. He doesn't want Phoebe to turn out like he did, to the point where her decisions make him angry.
Delete"Somebody'd written "F**k you" on the wall It drove me damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and al the other little kids would see it" (pg. 260)
ReplyDeleteThis quote supports Holden's role as a protector of innocence and children. Holden is so absoulutely disgusted by the fact that children will see this profanity in their school building that he says that he wanted to kill whoever wrote it. I think that in this chapter the part when he mentions how he'd hide hi kids if he had any was very important. He wants to hide children from the cruelty and "F**k you" of society. He thinks that society ruins childrens innocence just like he feels like it ruined his. So in his perfect world he shields his children from this harsh society and raises them and nurtures them to be different from it. I think it's a really interesting point that he makes here. You can say that all children grow up and have to become older at some point. But if Holden shielded them from all that would they be any different? Or might they just develop in the same way?
I think that protection from society could make the children more innocent but I also think that protection and under exposure would make the children ignorant to what's really going on in the world.
I completely agree with you. I wrote an entire essay last year on this exact quote. I had a lot of the points you made in it too.
DeleteI liked this line too. I thought it showed that Holden was not going to give up anymore, and that he would accept that he didn't have to do it alone. While he was walking "forever" on those cross walks he was talking to Allie and thanking him when he got to the other end of the street.
ReplyDelete"Every time I came to the end of a
ReplyDeleteblock and stepped off the goddam
curb, I had this feeling that I'd never
get to the other side of the street. I
thought I'd just go down, down, down,
and nobody'd ever see me again."
This passage to me was Holden's final goodbyes in his head. Having such a thought that you will disappear if you cross the curb is to bizarre and so strange, it really makea you think about Holden's well being. I think Holden still has severe depression and he even said that he would thank Allie that he didn't disappear off the sidewalk. I think Holden is holding onto the depression and the death of Allie, and it just slipped out now.
"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." Chapter 26
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it is the first time Holden gives the audience advice. He goes back in time to reflect on everything that has happened, every little lie he has told us. It's ironic because he never said he missed anything he left behind in the past. In fact he always tells us that he hated everything and he never wanted to go back to Pencey or any of his past schools. Now he's telling us he does truly miss the people he hated. Maybe he never really hated these people in the first place. Holden never truly moved on from his past and the depression that followed it. Once he did move on, it gave him a another perspective. He was so used to criticizing everyone, now when there not around he's sort of "healing". He's coping and its helping him realize who he was before and the person he could become. Moving on from your past is a processes of learning from the mistakes of your past. Most people in our society do it to move on and focus on the future ahead. Moving on from your pass is important, especially for Holden, because he's now has to deal with the consequences of failing, dropping out and lying.
I agree. I think that Holden has finally accepted the past and is living in the moment. Holden is now on a journey to find out who he really is and I think that whatever he ends up being like he'll be fine with it.
DeleteI disagree. I think he did hate them or maybe just disliked them. However, I think that he missed them because they taught him so many lessons and gave him so much experience. Frank McCourt, author of "Angela's Ashes," said he would never change his childhood because it inspired him. He said he never would have been able to write a book without it being so rough. Now Holden had a very privileged life. But I don't think he would ever change his childhood either because it taught him things and made him a better, more mature person.
Delete"'You know how the Egyptians buried their dead?' I asked the one kid. 'Naa.' 'Well, you should. It's very interesting. They wrapped their faces up in these cloths that were treated with some secret chemical. That way they cold be buried in their tombs for thousands of years and their faces wouldn't rot or anything. Nobody knows how to do it except for the Egyptians. Even modern science.'" pg. 203
ReplyDeleteI found this line significent because it shows how Holden actually paid attention in his classes at Pencey. Earlier in the book, when his teacher is reading the composition he wrote to him, it really seemed like Holden was clueless to what he was learning. But this showed the reader that Holden was actually listening the whole time, he just didn't apply himself. It shows Holden's potential in life, and it gave me hope about where he is going. I also found this significent because of the whole idea of things remaining the same. These mummies stay frozen in time for thousands of years, similar to the statues in the Museum of Natural History. Holden finds this comforting, because change has always meant something so deeply negative to him. That made me think about why people like/don't like change. What can be so upsetting about it, especially to Holden?
"I was sort of afraid that she'd fall off the goddam horse... but I didn't... The thing with kids is... if they fall off, they fall off." Page 211.
ReplyDeleteI think that this quote is significant because it shows how Holden realizes that everybody grows up and he also sees that getting older and more mature is not such a bad thing. During this section Holden is watching Phoebe on the carousal and in that moment he becomes happy. Seeing Phoebe reach for the golden ring on the carousal makes him finally see that losing your childhood innocence is going to happen to everyone and everyone eventually falls. Falling into adulthood is a thing that shouldn't be rejected it should be accepted as what it is. A lot of people are falling right now. Not literally but metaphorical. What I mean is that teenagers are going through life right now discovering who they are and what they believe in and sometimes they have to take risks and those risks lead to falls. Falling helps expose us to the real world and helps us find our true identities. I think Holden sees this now. He finally sees growing up as a normal thing.
I completely agree Lukas. Holden now understands that growing up is not a bad as you said. Do you think this affected Holden and made him change ?
Delete"'Whuddaya wanna do want to do? Not be in the play, for God's sake?' That made her cry even harder. I was glad." page 207
ReplyDeleteThe first thing I noticed when I read this was that Phoebe was acting exactly like Holden, and I think that Holden was terrified by that. He doesn't want her to turn out like him in any way, so he was scared when Phoebe wanted to drop out of school at such a young age. This relates back to Holden wanting to be the "catcher in the rye," wanting to protect the innocence of children. He doesn't want Phoebe to follow in his footsteps at all, and that's why it upset him so much that she didn't want to go to school anymore.
"The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them." chapter 25
ReplyDeleteI choose this quote because it relates back to another quote "I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.". The second quote has to do with Holden trying to preserve children's innocence and prevent them from falling into adulthood. Holden wanted to be this "catcher in the rye" to protect Phoebe from growing up. The quote on chapter 25 is said by Holden while he is watching Phoebe ride a carousel. This quote is the opposite of the the older quote. Holden is letting Phoebe go and fall into adulthood. This is a very big transition Holden makes and this quote really shows how Holden grew up and moved on. He did the right thing by letting Phoebe lose her innocence because in reality, you can't be a kid forever.
"your not going. Now, shut up! Give me that bag, I said. I took the bag off her. I was almost set to hit her."(267)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it showed how much phoebe loves and admires Holden. She is willing to give up her entire life just to live with Holden out in a shack in the woods. She would have to leave behind her family, friends, and education. The reason Holden exploded when he heard that she wanted to come along was because he acknowledged her admiration for him and saw that he was her role model. The last person Holden would want phoebe to be like when she grew up was himself. Holden didn't want her to grow up and become depressed and messed up and not have a future. He knows she is smart and intelligent and she has so many opportunities that she shouldn't squander because she wants to be like her older brother. Holden isn't going to take her future from her. That is why Holden got so mad at phoebe when she asked to come.
"I thought maybe I might stop in a phone booth and give old Jane Gallagher a buzz before I started bumming my way west, but I wasn't in the mood." PAGE 202
ReplyDeleteThis quote was significant to me because it is close to the end of the book and Holden sort of goes over all this stuff in chapter 25. With Mr. Antolini and how he thinks he just stroked Holden's face "just for the hell of it." With the "F*** YOU"s everywhere and how he wants to save all of the children from this foul language and let them keep their innocence by being their Catcher in the Rye. With his sister and their bitter sweet relationship because they always fight but they never stay angry. With his entertainment in lying to people and messing with them and their ignorance. And then he goes back to Jane Gallagher. In this whole book he talks about Jane Gallagher as this girl who he is basically in love with. She is like the perfect girl for him and he implies constantly that he doesn't deserve her because she is better than him. He looks at himself as trash. He is always making up an excuse not to call/talk to/see her and the major excuse that he uses throughout is "I am not in the mood." He said this again for the last time on page 202 and it showed that although he has grown as a person in some ways, he still has a lot more growing to do as a person. Mr. Antolini talked about how immaturity is someone who dies nobly for a cause, and maturity is someone who lives humbly for a cause. I think that as he has more experience both good and bad he grows and becomes more mature. Luce asked him if he would ever grow up. I think he will and he will won't. He says in the beginning of the last chapter that what school he is going to next and how he will do do not matter to him. Will he ever realize that he can't keep trying to live this impossible dream of saving every child from losing their innocence, of being every child's Catcher in the Rye? That is the name of his book. He will probably eventually make a living and have a life. But I think he will always be "The Catcher in the Rye" in his mind.
"i went down by a different staircase, and I saw another "Fuck you" on the wall. I tried to rub it off with my hand again, nut this one was scratched on with a knife or something. It wouldn't come off. its hopeless anyway. if you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'fuck you' signs in the world."
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to my because of the truth in it. This passage is saying that every single time you see something you do don't personally like, you can't always change it. Sometimes you just have to deal with it and move on.The vulgar writing carved on the wall represents all the things in the world that bother Holden. He doesn't have the power to change the people around him. He can only change how he choses to react.
"That's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any." p. 204
ReplyDeleteI think this quote is significant because I think it is a metaphor for Holden's life and that his life is never going to be nice and peaceful. He keeps thinking about being deaf-mute and living near the woods and having a peaceful life, and I think that this quote shows that even if he does do that, it won't ever be completely nice and peaceful. He will just have to find a way to make the places he's in more peaceful.
I think that the quote you chose symbolizes that wherever Holden turns in life, he finds phony, or not peaceful. This is why he wants to run away somewhere, like the woods, where it is peaceful, and all his problems will "disappear." He is running away from the pressures society puts on teenagers, something I can relate to at times.
Delete"Every time I came to the end of the block and stepped off the goddam curb, I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again," (p.197).
ReplyDeleteI feel like this quote was especially significant because it metaphorically showed that Holden is scared of never growing up. He worries that if he never matures and finds his place in life, then he'll be stuck forever in this sort of almost
limbo like stage, between childhood and adulthood. Holden want's to stay a child and remain innocent, yet at the same time is scared of growing up, not knowing what to do, or where to go. Also, the section of the quote about falling down, and "nobody'd ever see me again," further revealed Holden's loneliness. He is worried that no one will catch him and he will be all alone. Which is ironic, because many, many people throughout the story have tried to pick Holden back up, or "catch" him, including Mr. Spencer, Mr. Antolini, and so on. But Holden rejects them and their advice.
"'Yeah.' I said. I meant it, too. I wasn't lying to her. I really did go home afterwards. 'Hurry up, now,' I said. 'The thing's starting.'" p. 212
ReplyDeleteThe first teacher I read this book with told me that Phoebe is the most important character, much more than Holden himself. She is not more important than him, but clearly the most important to him, as in who he cares for, and as in who has had the greatest affect on him. The hunting hat was Holden's protection of and connection to his innocence. When he hands it over to Phoebe, he's realizing that he's done with his childhood. Earlier, many people discussed Holden and Phoebe's roles within their relationship as being switched. Before, this was true. But as Holden realizes that he can't live off his kid sister's Christmas money, the roles move back to normal, and were probably always that way in an underlying sense. When she wants to come along with him, Holden realizes that what he does has a huge influence on her. He can't give up on life because she'll just follow the same path, and he wants the best for her. Phoebe's disappointment in Holden as well as her blind emulation pushes Holden to mature. To face his family and his failures. Without her, he'd be stuck as an unhappy adolescent, indefinitely.
Oscar Belkin-Sessler
ReplyDeleteOctober 25, 2012
The Catcher in the Rye chapter’s final chapters
“I sort of miss everybody I told about. Even old Stradlater and Ackley, for instance. I think I even miss that goddam Maurice. Its funny. Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.” (PG. 214)
This is one of the rarest moments in this book. Holden looks back at his past, not in an angry way, nor cynical way, he looks back at his past for what it was and appreciates it. At this moment we, the reader, realize that everything that happened, the good and the bad, was for the best. Holden has come so far, and learned so much. He has come from a place where he feels hatred towards someone to where he misses them. There are a lot of bad things in life, for Holden it’s the phonies, the fakes, and the “prostitutes” but there are also a lot of amazing and beautiful things. Life is a package and you have to have all the parts. After the brief period of time spent with his sister, he realizes that running away from his problems wont solve them, he also realizes that he needs to stay for his sister and the things that “trump the phonies” Now Holden can look back and find all his experiences funny, and he is able to miss them. These experiences shaped him, and helped him realize new things that in the future will save his path, and save him from not falling into the sidewalk.