Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward.
Tuesday, October 9, 2012
G-Band: Chapters 8 & 9
Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
PAMELA YIADOM
ReplyDeleteAfter Checking in the hotel.
The line that stands out to me is "I was probably the only normal bastard in the whole place-and that isn't saying much". This line stands out to me because it's funny how he thinks he's normal compared to the people staying at the hotel. It proves how he lies to himself, thinking he was normal.This line shocks me the most, because he is very weird, so how can he say he is normal compared to the people at the hotel. Yes, it makes me ask a question, like why would he say that? Is it to please himself or something?. My connection to this is that yeah I admit that sometimes, I do lie to myself, to make myself feel better compared to others. This is saying that Holden is a liar, and a sad liar to himself too. Well it is saying to the world in general that honestly we all do it, and it's normal, but not Holden's situation, his is just wrong.
While I do agree with parts of your piece, I disagree that he thinks he's strange compared to some of these other people. While he might be impulsive, he's not walking around cross-dressing (which I have no problem with, but in Holden's world. it's strange). I think that he also said that it's not saying much, so he realizes that he's pretty strange too.
DeleteI also agree with Max. I feel the same with parts of your piece, but I also disagree. I don't think that Holden isn't "normal". I think that he's just a complex character, it doesn't separate him from the people at the hotel in a bad way though. Also, I think he just wants to fit in. He doesn't admit it but based on textual evidence, you could conclude that. Holden is like most teenagers; he wants to fit in. I wonder why Holden looks down on himself. I think that Holden needs to be more optimistic.
Delete"...I didn't give a damn how I looked. Nobody was around anyway. Everybody was in the sack." pg. 53
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because Holden has this sort of repeated manner where he is being hypocritical about what he states. He obviously cared what other people thought about him because in this scene he wouldn't be sneaking off in the middle of the night after Stradlater beat him up. I think Holden is a very complex character because he really tries to have this laid back and chill attitude about everything, what people think about him and what he thinks of others, but at the end of the day, Holden ends up regretting every single lousy desicion he's made. At some point in reading his mistakes, I wonder if he will ever open up and admit that he can't always hide from his feelings and just let himself be vulnerable for once. Holden's problem is also a very common struggle that many others face. Sometimes, I think that we can't always hide our true feelings from everyone because we'll just lose ourselves in the reality of the shame.
This is a great analyzation. I completely skipped over this line without really delving into it and thinking about how hypocritical Holden really was. He thinks he is the greatest around and hates phonies, and gives off this aura of not caring, yet deep down he really does care.
Delete"Then I started reading this time table in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I can go on for hours if I felt like it. No kidding. Hours." (Page 58)
ReplyDeleteCan we really trust Holden? I think the reader can still trust him despite him constantly warning us we shouldn't. Holden really likes to amuse himself by telling people lies like during his conversation with Mrs. Morrow. He said all these lies to her when the reader knew what was actually going through Holden's mind. So yes, our source of information is correct because we are like his conscience. However, the characters in the book are being lied to by Holden.
I really like your response and I agree with you completely. I think we can trust Holden and that he is just telling lies to entertain himself. I think that it is pretty obvious when he is lying, not necessarily to the person he is lying to but to the reader, and a lot of the time he tells us that he is lying. So, like you said I think we can trust him.
DeleteI agree with you Naz, I also feel like we can trust him because I think he's only lying to make himself feel better and to basically amuse himself. I also wondered, why does Holden lie all the time? but then as I continued to read I understand. Also, I noticed after he lies he feels guilty about it. Overall I feel like we can trust him, after he lies he even tells the readers about it.
Delete"I started toying with the idea of calling Jane..." p. 63
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to my because here he is, all by himself in a hotel room, and that's when his true emotions come out. When Holden is around friends, he doesn't talk about much, and he never really has anyone to talk to. When he is by himself in a hotel in New York is when he really starts thinking about things that are important to him, and more important things. Holden would be a much different character and person if he had just one person to talk to, just to let his feelings go and let whatever's bothering him loose.
I agree with you completely Stephen, but I think that you should try and dig deeper. My little input on your quote is, maybe Holden choses to not tell people his feelings and keep it to himself, because thats when he knows he can be "honest" and say what he wants to say and not feel judged( which I think is what Hoden is afraid of, and the reaon why he doesnt say much) rather than keep it bottled up like he does around others.
DeleteI agree, but because Holden has sought out isolation and now that he is finally alone he wants to talk to someone. It is hard to know what the effect of talking to someone will have on Holden. To avoid pain he constantly lies about the true state of affairs he finds himself in. A part of him is just looking for adventure rather than insight.
Delete"'Oh! I'm so sorry,' she said. She really was, too. I was right away sorry I'd said it, but it was too late." (page 58)
ReplyDeleteThis line is right after Holden lies to Mrs. Morrow about leaving Pencey early because he had to have an operation. We see here that lying is sort of an impulse for Holden. Without even thinking it over, he lied to this stranger about his name and about having a major operation. This line also shows that Holden regrets lying to her. So why does he lie to strangers? Why do people lie when it is unnecessary? I think that Holden feels the need or has the impulse to lie because he is unsatisfied with his life. He is always talking about things that "kill" him, or "knock him out," and I feel like he rarely actually comes into contact with these things that he admires. I think that Holden is really just bored, and so he finds joy pretending, and in messing with people or lying to them. I think that people lie because they are bored, embarrassed, insecure, or just because they can at the moment. I would argue that Holden often feels these things, and he creates lies to make his life seem more interesting.
I really like your points but I disagree with the first one about how he lies because he's unsatisfied with his life I just think he lies because he finds it funny to mess with people. Thats what your second point says and I totally agree that he finds joy in pretending, but he's been lying so much its become an impulse, so maybe he lies sometimes when he doesn't intend to. But it is a really good analysis of the quote, and i never looked at it the way that you did.
DeleteI love yours, and I totally agree with you. But do you think that Holden Lies to himself too? Do you agree with that. Like when he says "I was probably the only normal bastard in the whole place". Like you said, he may have created some lies to make his life seem more interesting. In which lying to himself is my opinion.
Deletepage 5." I don't feel like giving her my whole life history..."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because Holden mentioned not wanting to tell his life story to us, the readers, in the begining of the story. Then he said it again when he spoke about talking to Morrow's mother. This shows me that Holden perfers to avoid conversation, rather than delve into one. It also shows that Holden prefers to tell people lies, to entertain himself, rather then speak the truth,which he probably sees as boring.This could be why everything annoys Holden and why he doesnt have many friends. An idea that this qoute gave me is that maybe he purposely tried to get kicked out of Pencey, to avoid having to talk and deal with other people. This relates to how the world is today. People pick and chose what they want to do, or what situation they want to be in, rather then make the best of what they have.
I agree with all you said here. I don't want to say that he is a compulsive liar, but he lies a lot to keep conversation and like you said, entertain himself. However, he also said how he genuinely liked Morrow's mother. He found her very attractive and also he liked how she was so fascinated with all that he was telling her. Meanwhile it was all lies. Maybe it gives him a feeling of control and he likes that feeling. He is so judgmental whether the judgement be positive or negative, but he doesn't like being judged. I wonder if lying is his defense mechanism...
DeleteI also thought this quote was interesting because when he said it, all Mrs. Morrow asked him was his name, and he even lied about that. This shows how private Holden really is. I like the point you made that Holden doesn't like to engage in a conversation, rather he likes to avoid them. I see what you mean, but doesn't he engage in conversations with random strangers all the time? I think that he tries to avoid having a "real" conversation with anyone, and also tries to avoid revealing anything personal about himself. Maybe that's why he lies as well? Anyway, good analysis, it really made me think about the quote differently.
Delete"The trouble is, that kind of junk is sort of fascinating to watch, even if you don't want it to be."
ReplyDelete- pg. 81
Holden said this line after he was watching a couple spitting water, or some kind of substance on each other's faces and a drag queen dressing from a man to a woman. I really liked the line because its really relatable. You know when you're on the subway or walking on the street and you see a drag queen walking down the street, you keep staring. Its weird people find weird thing compelling and interesting, and to satisfy this feeling of curiosity towards this person or thing we stare, and i think holden really captures that in this line.
I really like how you related Holden seeing the couple spitting water at each other to seeing a drag queen on the streets of NY. You made it relate-able and made a connection on how Holden and us (teenagers), see the world and we find curiosity in the things that are strange.
Delete"Just to stop lying. Once I started, I can go on for hours if I feel like it. No kidding. Hours. " (PG 58)
ReplyDelete"Just to stop lying. Once I started, I can go on for hours if I feel like it. No kidding. Hours. " (PG 58)
ReplyDeleteThis scene really made me laugh. The sheer amount of lying he did was ridiculous. I feel like he tried to just play around with her and get to know her, but slowly he started to get more intricate. He realized as he lied more and more that he couldn't stop. His lies started to get crazy when he said he had a tumor. This is proof that he is a terrific liar. While I think these lies are really going to kill him if he sees the mom again, I feel that he really sculpted this dream son for the mom, while he was a jerk in real life. I've lied before, and I know that you can't back out of a lie. If you get questioned,then you just have to back it up with more lies. Or get in trouble.
“The only reason I didn’t do it was because I wasn’t in the mood. If you’re not in the mood, you can’t do that stuff right.” (p. 82). This quote stood out to me because it seems like Holden is making excuses and playing it off like its no big deal, like he has done in the past. He obviously wants to call Jane, but is scared to, and is making up an excuse saying he’s just not in the mood. This makes you think what else Holden is holding back from doing because he’s scared. Also, why is he scared? Its pretty clear that Holden and Jane have a past, but we don’t know exactly what that is yet, and why that would make him scared to call her. This also shows that he cares what people think, even the reader. He wants us to think that he could, and would call Jane, but he just doesn’t feel like it, while we know that he’s scared.
ReplyDelete"You know those ducks in that lagoon right near Central Park South? That little lake? By any chance, do you happen to know where they go, the ducks, when it gets all frozen over? Do you happen to know, by any chance?" - Pg. 60
ReplyDeleteDespite the answer he gets, Holden is never satisfied with the reply. Holden doesn't consciously realize that the ducks relate to him. Holden is trepidacious. He has been kicked out of school, he doesn't get good grades, his parents will be angry with him once they find out he got kicked out of school, and he spends his days wandering through New York City. He doesn't know where he is going to go, reflecting his question about the ducks. Perhaps if he knew where the ducks went, he could follow their example.
i know my comments are supposed to add to this but you're so smart kjdhbsbkejrhbgd
DeleteSo i'll say that i agree, Holden is pathless. Another way he copes is by calling others morons because it gives him more security in these decisions he makes that appear so wrong and destructive in the moment.
-textual reference bottom of page 52 & page 44 end of first full paragraph
"I felt like giving somebody a buzz... I couldn't think of anybody to call up."
ReplyDeleteI chose this quote because Holden really is just lonely. He doesn't really have anyone to call and who calls someone that late at night. Holden was clearly in need of someone to talk to. I believe this goes back to Allie's death. Allie was the only person Holden felt he could talk to and share things with but since he's gone Holden's all alone. Holden believes no one understands him and no one will ever understand him. I really feel bad for Holden at these moments because you can see how much he's struggling.
" The thing is, though, I don't like the idea. It stinks, if you analyze it. ...you shouldnt horse around with her at all, and if you do like her, then you're supposed to like her face .." pg 62
ReplyDeleteIn this passage, I think it shows the complexity of Holden and how he thinks. In the pages before, Holden is very shut off and doesnt explain what he thinks when he interacts with other people and is impulsive in his acts. The analysis of treating a girl's face right almost relates to his problem with Stradlater and how he doesnt know what he did with Jane, and Holden has a picture perfect way of how your suppose to treat a girl.
"I think if you don't really like a girl, you shouldn't horse around with her at all, and if you do like her, then you're supposed to like her face, and if you like her face, you ought to be careful about doing crumby stuff to it, like squirting water all over it."
ReplyDeleteHere we see a much more innocent side to Holden. After declaring himself to be a very sexy person with a very sexy mind (not discussing his appearance but rather his level of perversion), we find Holden talking the way i might imagine a five year old when asking them about the person they have a crush on. It also shows Holden on a moral level, that yes lying (which many consider wrong) is all for fun and games, but how you treat someone special, how you treat a girl you like, should not be crumby. Because honestly crumby actions should be kept for those who we don't really like, and according to Holden, if we do't really like them, what are we doing being crumby with them in the first place.
I agree with this. Holden acts differently and thinks differently when it comes to that special person. When he was talking about Jane his attitude changed. He remembered a bunch of stuff about her just by the mention of her name, like how she always kept the kings in the back row. So I think that he think, when it comes to someone you care about you shouldn't treat them in a crumby way and treat them nicely instead of squirting water on their face.
DeleteI really agree with you here. Your analysis was genius and it shed a lot of perspective on Holden's immaturity and his view on women. I agree that he is very immature in his statement because I just wouldn't imagine a 16 year-old boy describing a girl in that tone and manner. Yet, Holden's mind is very complex in itself and he hasn't quite developed in a sense of acting mature. I also agree with you on the last line of your response when you write "according to Holden, if we don't really like them, what are we doing being crumby with them in the first place?" This kind of strikes Holden as hypocritical because he hangs out with people he doesn't even like (Ackley and Stradlater) just because he's lonely.
Delete"Mothers are all slightly insane." pg. 55
ReplyDeleteThis post made me wonder about Holden's relationship with his mother, but also with women in general. I feel like he appreciates women a lot more than men, because later in the chapter he discusses how he doesn't think women should be used for sex. But this also says a lot about the parent/teenager relationship overall, in the way that we want our independence so badly, but once we have it, we're scared of all the responsibilities we have to face. Wondering through New York City, I feel like Holden is frightened about where his life is going and he just wants to be a little kid again. But I feel like this is a universal feeling for teenagers. We want independence so badly, but eventually, we wish we could take it all back.
I agree with what your saying, Holden does like Mrs. Morrow as a woman and a mom, although he also mentions later in the passage "Mother's aren't too sharp about that stuff." Meaning that maybe he thinks he can fool his own mother, when coming to New York earlier before break, not telling them he was kicked out of Pencey. He thinks that parents/adults in general are pretty dumb, and will allow him to live in this stage of immaturity and lies.
Delete"Then i started reading this timetable I had in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I just go on for hours it feels like. No kidding. Hours." (P. 58)
ReplyDeleteThese lines really stood out to me. He IS a pathological liar. But then what if he is lying about lying..? It goes back to our discussion on the first sentence in chapter three (page 16), "I am the most terrific liar the you ever saw in your life." So is he telling the truth? But since we only know his story, it has to be the truth. This is true in real life. If two people have a conflict, and they both have different stories of what happened, who do you believe? Its so hard to know. Alhough in this case their is no other persons story, we have nothing to compare it to. I guess we will just have o trust that Holden is telling the truth. Although, if he did lie, it would be to show himself in a better light. He lied to Murrow's mother so she would like him better. I think he would try to do the same thing to us, as the reader. I think we should trust Holden, although we don't really have much a choice. He is the narrator...
“It isn't very serious. I have this tiny little tumor on the brain.” – pg: 58
ReplyDeleteIn this quote from the book Holden is making up a lie about a brain tumor to one of his classmates mother. I think that he is not completely lying. I say this because I think that his “tumor” is actually his conscience. Holden doesn't seem to think much about his actions, but when he does it annoys him. Therefore he would want to take it out. Even in the scenario he is talking to someone’s mother and thinking about how beautiful she looks and how she has a sex appeal. He doesn’t use that “little voice” in his head. I can relate to this because I sometimes don’t think before I act because I usually ignore my conscience, and when I do think about my actions before it happens I get annoyed. This helps me understand Holden a bit more because we are similar in ways and when he does things I can think if I do them and why I do them, and then relate the scenarios to each other.
"I didn't give a damn how i looked. Nobody was around anyway. Everybody was in the sack." (Page.53)
ReplyDeleteThis statement clues us in to Holden's frame of mind. Not only does he not care about the way he looks, he pretty much pretends he has stopped caring about anything. It seems that he would like us and himself to believe that he doesn't care, but i believe he does. As a matter of fact, to avoid the pain of having to deal with his classmates and with the school he's leaving early. So, Holden is avoiding dealing with the realities he has to face and dealing with his own emotions. Again, this description shows us that Holden seeks isolation. Although his tone is depressed, he is generally feeling sorry for himself,and yet a part of him is still out for adventure.
I agree with what you said, but i also thought of something else while reading the quote. I thought that maybe Holden was saying that he didn't care if the hat looked ugly because no one was around so he had no one to impress. Which brings up the question: Does Holden actually care what people think about him? This kind of defies the persona that he displays in the book but I think it's an interesting point to bring up.
DeleteThe few pages where Holden was talking to "his friends" mother in the train stood out to me. They stood out because it was funny how Holden was getting such a kick out of how interested she was while he was "chucking the crap." It was weird though because Holden actually seemed to like this woman. I feel like she would be someone he would completely hate and think of as a phony. I wonder why he didn't hate her?
ReplyDeleteI think that this is scene very good example of how when Holden has a chance to make a "friend" he lies about himself and who he is. He desires social interaction, yet he also despised it.
DeleteHolden states, "I felt like giving somebody a buzz... but as soon as I was inside, I couldn't think of anybody to call up," (p.59)
ReplyDeleteI feel like this quotation clearly illustrates Holden's loneliness. He likes to say that he is "chewing the rag" or "shooting bull" with people. He acts like he's not interested and doesn't care about these interactions. He calls people phony's and fakes. But this quote shows that Holden desires social interaction as much as any other person. He only calls them "phony's" because he doesn't exactly fit it with society that well. Simply put, Holden is lonely, yet refuses to make friends when he has the chance, by lying about who he is.
" Then I started reading this time table I had in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I can go on for hours if I feel like it. No kidding. Hours." (Pg 58)
ReplyDeleteThroughout the whole book , Holden has had this consistency of lying uncontrollably. It shows his immaturity, even to an adult in this situation, and how he is not able to cope with facing reality. For example, when asked his name by the mother, from the quote above, he gives her a phony name "Rudolf Schmidt" the name of the janitor of his dorm. In addition when asked, why he was going to New York ahead of the break, he replies saying it's because he needs to get an operation on his minor brain tumor. Holden, really exhibits a childish behavior, of not being able to deal with his responsibilities.
I agree with the fact that Holden is constantly lying to himself. He can't accept who he is and always seems to avoid the truth or the situation at hand. When he gets kicked out of Pencey, he leaves early instead of on Wednesday and stays at a hotel so that he doesn’t have to go home and talk to his parents about failing school. This also supports your point about how he is not able to deal with his responsibilities. Instead, Holden runs away from his problems.
Delete"The only reason I didn't do it was because I wasn't in the mood." pg. 82 (big book)
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the examples for how Holden always has excuses for himself. He doesn't say that he chickened out he says that he "wasn't in the mood." And whenever Holden does something that he's called phony in the past he always has some excuse for why he did it or how it was okay to do that phony stuff in the situation. I think this shows how Holden is egotistical and believes that he is in the right constantly and that eveyone else is a combination of phony, fake and crumby.
I agree with what you are saying about Holden coming up with excuses. He uses the excuse of not being in the mood a lot, like when Stradlater was telling him to go down and say hi to Jane but he just kept saying he wasn't in the mood. I also think that he is covering up for the real reason for not doing things.
Delete" 'It isn't very serious. I have this tiny little tumor on the brain.'
ReplyDelete'Oh, no!' She put her hand up to her mouth and all .'
'Oh, I'll be all right and everything! It's right near the outside. And it's a very tiny one. They can take it out in about two minutes.' " PAGE 58
This quote stood out to me a lot because Holden was just rambling and he just came out and said he had a brain tumor. He then tried to cover it up with the fact that it was really small and on the outside but that doesn't mean that it isn't still serious. In this moment I wondered if he ever thinks about what he is saying... Has he made the decision to just go wherever life takes him and accept whatever consequences that come after. Even after he said he was getting an operation before he said anything about the tumor, he said how he totally regretted saying it. So why would he just continue to worry the women on the train with a "tumor on the brain." It just goes to show that in the exact moment of the present being he has no consideration for how other people feel or how his actions and/or words might affect him and the people around him. It isn't until after that that he actually considers the effect instead of the cause.
I agree with how you are saying that he does before he thinks. To add onto what your saying I think another good example is when he gets into a fight with Stradlater. It says in the text that he tries to punch Stradlater. He does this without any warning.
Delete"She had a terrifically nice smile. She really did. Most people have hardly any smile at all, or a lousy one." Page 55.
ReplyDeleteI think that this quote is significant because it shows how Holden views people. I think Holden categorizes people into having two different types of identities. The first one is being a phony and the second is being a nice person. I feel like Holden believes everybody's a phony except for certain people that he likes and those people are usually family such as Allie or people he feels like he has a connection with. Holden's view on people seems to have been affected by something in his past because no one normally thinks everyone's a fake. It seems like Holden has a depressed outlook on the world that affects his view on almost everything. I think that people in general tend to categorize people based on small things that they don't like. I know personally that small things like a lecture from a teacher about grades can make me dislike that teacher. Little stuff determines our everyday outlook on the world and our feelings to toward people, objects, or places.
"If I'm on a train at night, I can usually even read one of those dumb stories in a magazine without puking." Pg. 53
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it is another example of how Holden continues to deceive himself in the book. He is so bothered by the stories in the magazine but he still reads them. It seems like the stories actually interest him in some way and that he is lying to himself about disliking them. I think Holden tries not to show a lot of emotions in certain situations because he is afraid of being judged or criticized for his actions. One reason why he might be criticizing the other characters in the book so much is to take the attention off himself. Holden shows us that it is a natural habit for people to hide from their insecurities.
"I don't mean I'm oversexed or anything like that, although I am quite sexy." (page 54)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me for a few reasons. First of all, he rarely ever talks about dating girls or anything like that in the book, and also he often comes off as having very low-self esteem. He is worried that everyone is judging him and he is always judging himself, yet here he is saying that he is "quite sexy." I also think that maybe he is kind of kidding himself and humoring himself, and that maybe it's sarcastic. This makes me wonder how Holden really views himself. Does he have confidence in some areas, but not in others, does he just seem to have low self esteem, or was he being sarcastic? I think that it's actually a mixture of all of these thoughts and feelings, and also the fact that he just left school and is on a train in the middle of the night, he isn't exactly thinking straight. I think that what this quote says about people in the world is that people view themselves in different ways depending on their situation, because in certain situations, you can be comfortable and feel good about yourself, when at other times you are not as comfortable and more worried about being judged.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Then I started reading this timetable I had in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I can go on for hours if I feel like it. No kidding. Hours." (58)
ReplyDeleteThis was significant because he is admitting/you can see that he's lying. I think that even though he tells us that he's a terrific liar, he tells us when he's lying and when he isn't lying. This quote shows that he lies A LOT, even when he doesn't want to. Its almost a second nature to him that he doesn't even know how to control it anymore. Once it comes out, he can't stop or change it.
"That's the thing about girls. Every time they do something pretty, even if they're not much to look at, or even if they're sort of stupid, you fall in love with them, and then you never know where the hell you are. Girls. Jesus Christ. They can drive you crazy. They really can." -page 77
ReplyDeleteThis quote shocked me although throughout the book Holden has showed a continued interest in girls over guys. Whenever Holden describes a guy, it's always negative. He usually calls them a moron or a bastard, but when it comes to girls, Holden completely changes. He flips... but the thing that shocked me the most was how MUCH he says that he likes girls. Holden has made it clear that he's liked girls, but here he says that it's easy to fall half in love with a girl even if they're sort of stupid or not that attractive. This is one of the first times that Holden has talked about someone in such a good way besides Jane, and Allie. It makes me think that Holden actually does care, and CAN be a nice sensitive person just doesn't want to show it. It's also funny because every time Holden introduces a new girl, he always adds in if they're pretty or not. It just proves how much he likes girls and he also said that even if they're not that pretty he could fall half way in love with them. In addition, Holden doesn't put up with guys who are stupid and make fun of him but somehow with girls he lets them get away with it. This made me wonder why doesn't Holden like guys?
Lots of people in the world have trust issues, does this relate to Holden?
I completely agree and I have some things to add. I too have been seeing how different Holden thinks about girls and guys. I think that Holden does not like boys as much as girls because he sees other boys as competition. When people compare two people they will most likely (especially in this time period) compare the same sex's. I also think that deep down Holden is a sensitive and sincere person. A lot of the time it is harder for men than woman to accept that. It is interesting that Holden want to hang out with those three girls because I feel like if they had man versions, they would be the exact people that Holden hates.
DeleteOscar Belkin-Sessler
ReplyDeleteThe Catcher in the Rye
October 10, 2012
Blog post
As I get farther and farther into this book I start to really analyze the characters by looking at all their habits and seeing their true personality.
So far I have seen that Holden is very critical of people. It seems that he dislikes more people than he likes. This can be caused by a number of reasons. The one that came to my mind was that he is somewhat jealous of those people. A lot of the people that he doesn’t like have desirable lives. He chooses to project himself in a way that is negative towards those people but maybe on the inside he actually resents them. Another reason that he dislikes and judges people could be because he is just like them. He calls them phony and fake, but maybe he is phony and fake. In the past two readings I have noticed that he is lonely. In the last reading he was overjoyed to be talking to the woman on the train. This woman is something that he seemingly would hate, but he really enjoyed talking to her. Later in that reading, Holden enters the phone booth with the intention of calling someone. He doesn’t have a reason for this except the fact that he wants to talk to someone. At the end of this chapter Holden starts to reflect on Jane. “But she was terrific to hold hands with. Most girls if you hold hands with them, their goddam hand dies on you” (79). This quote is direct evidence of how lonely Holden is and how much he relies on human contact. He likes holding hands, the reason he likes this is because he likes the feeling of another human touching him. Holding hands is a sign of caring and I don’t thing many people have cared for Holden in his life.
"Then I started reading this time table in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I can go on for hours if I felt like it. No kidding. Hours." (Page 58)
ReplyDeleteThis quote conveys a question to any one that's reading this book ask can we trust Holden? Holden is a consecutive liar. It has become a habit to him and a coping mechanism to keep himself 'safe" from all the phoniness in the world. This quote stood out to me because he's telling the reader " yeah I lie all the time, maybe im lying to you" It brings us to question Holden's persona and continue reading to see if he's actually lying to the reader. This quote also shows that Holden doesn't always want to lie and has to figure out ways to retain himself from lying.
"Then I started reading this timetable I had in my pocket. Just to stop lying." (pg.58)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me as I was reading chapter 8, the reason is because I felt like it was a significant moment. We all know that Holden constantly lies, but this quote showed that he didn't want to lie. So he was reading the time able that was in is pocket to stop lying. I felt that was a really mature thing for holden to do, I just didn't expect this out of holden.