"I'd say to him, 'Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie.'" pg. 198
I thought this quote was very significant because it shows what keeps Holden anchored and present in the world, when he's most afraid, is Allie. It made me wonder, why doesn't Holden think of Phoebe, or his mother, or Jane Gallagher, when he doesn't want to fade into nothing? I think it is because Allie is the only person in Holden's life who will never grow up, never become a phony, never change. Throughout the book we have seen the way Holden is incredibly immature, not wanting to become an like those around him who grow older, conform to society, loose their innocence, and have hidden motivations or sugar coated lives. I believe Holden is afraid of this change because the first major alteration in his life was Allie's death, the loss of a family member he loved. On some level, he must fear disappearing, going into the unknown as Allie did, as more change comes to his life. Holden holds on to Allie because he doesn't want to lose the innocence and purity that will last forever in his memory. He appeals to Allie because he wishes he too could never be pressured to conform, never have to go through all the changes that intimidate and confuse teenagers. Maybe even if the price is death.
I completely agree. Holden is always so concerned about growing up. I never really thought about how his feelings for Allie could relate to the not-growing-up aspect. When I stop and think about it, it is very true. I also think that Holden always talks about Allie because he had experienced death. Holden is always talking about death; saying he would sit on a bomb, etc. Death intriueges him, and so, Allie is always a big topic on his mind.
I totally agree. Allie died as a child with the innocence and purity that Holden loves. Allie in Holden's mind will always be the same because Allie didn't have to grow up or go through the changes in the process of becoming an adult. Holden wants Allie to hold him the way he is right now and don't let him turn into something that he wouldn't recognize later on.
"I sat down for a second, and then i felt better. But while i was sitting down, i saw something that drove me crazy. Somebody'd written "Fuck you" on the wall."
He was worried that what he wants and doesnt these kids are going to lose. He is worry that his sister will see that and that will take over her. He gets mad at that person because all those little kids will see that. Many schools have this type of language all around the and many kids see that and that will change them. In every school there are kids that are bad for you but its always on the kid to pick weather or not to follow it.
I agree with you. However, I think Holden knows that if I kid sees this, they're going to want to know what it means. Then when they find out, they learn other bad words and eventually, the child's mind will become so polluted that they will lose their innocence.
"A million little kids were downtown with their mothers, getting on and off buses and coming in and out of stores. I wished old phoebe was around. She's not little enough anymore to go stark staring mad in the toy department, but she enjoys horsing around and looking at the people. The Christmas before last I took her downtown shopping with me. We had a helluva time." (page 197)
This stood out to me because it shows how badly Holden enjoyed and misses childhood. He so badly wants to be a kid again. That is why Holden wants Phoebe to be there with him, because she reminds him of his childhood, and that reminder is one of the few things that makes him happy. Holden also just likes being around kids. He gets along with them better then adults. He can relate to them more because, besides the smoking, drinking, and dancing in clubs, Holden is childish himself.
I agree with you completely. Holden loves childhood aand innocence and the way kids aren't phony. He's afraid of growing up and maybe loosing all of that. Maybe he even smokes,drinks, and goes to clubs as a way to convince himself that he will be fine being an adult. He is just stuck in the middle, being a teenager, and not really fitting anywhere. I think everyone can relate to that.
I completely agree. Holden just wants to go back to his days of innocence and he clearly does not want to give up on the benefits of being a child; he doesn't like change at all from what i can tell.
"The christmas before last I took her downtown shopping with me. We had a helluva time. I think it was in bloomingdale's. We went in the shoe department and we pretended she- old phoebe wanted to get a pair of those very high storm shoes, the kind that have a million holes to lace up." -page 196
This passage showed me that when Holden tends to get stressed out and on the edge that he just has to relax and enjoy life from time to time. The truth is that we can't just do all work and no play; we need to enjoy life to the fullest extent of our capabilities. That's what Holden has been trying to accomplish throughout the book; to love life for what it is. Sometimes we just need to void our lives of the intense stress we face in this world we live in to just have fun. That's what life is all about really; balancing your duties in this world with the vast amount of fun that the world has to offer. That's really the moral of the story, do your best but remember, have fun!- Connor O'Rourke B band
I love your message and I agree, Holden just wants to enjoy life and do something out of the ordinary, yet in the back of his mind, he knows he won't be able to do that. he tries to run away from responsibilities, but he knows that he will never be able to do that. I feel like enjoying life is not doing everything you want, but also cherishing time with the people you love and Holden has that, but he isn;t really able to appreciate that.
" Somebody'd written 'Fuck you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy."
This line reminds me of the discussion in class we had about how Holden wants to be the catcher in the rye. He wants to prevent the kids from all the awfulness in the world. He doesn't want the kids to see or learn what is the meaning of the phrase and he wants to kids to be in a clean, happy, and healthy environment. He wants the best for all of them. I was just wondering if the reason for his cursing nonstop is because he grows up hearing them and that's why he doesn't want the kids to grow up just like him? Does he know his future already because he wants to keep the kids away from turning into someone like him and have the same future as he will? Holden doesn't seem to care if people curse where there is no children around. Don't forget that he feels horrible for yelling at Phoebe to shut up.
"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." -Page 214
I chose this quote because of the change in Holden and the connection to today. IN his adventure in the book he met more phonies than "real" people, yet now he's missing all of them no matter how much they annoyed him. I never thought of this before, but whenever I would tell a story involving people from my past, I would say that I missed them afterwords. This might be why many people don't discuss events that happened in their past. For example, my grandmother had a rough childhood with her brother dying in WW II and her sister dying of a disease at age 20. My family would always wonder why we would never hear anything about them, but now I understand that she would just miss them too much. This is probably how most people think too.
I agree with you 100%. I think that though Holden considered all of them to be phonies, he can't really understand his life as well without them in it. I think that he's so used to them being there, that it's what makes him feel so real. I also found it significant that fhis was hil last line. Not only do I think it's in regards to Allie as well, but the novel itself. I think Holden, as a narrator, is going to miss sharing his story with us, the readers. I think in a way, we all become sad after we tell someone basically everything and no longer have them.
" Its funny, don't tell anybody anything. If you, you start missing everybody." pg 214
Holden suprises one last time. He finally admits how much he missed everyone he talked about. He kind of shows that side of his thought that we never really were able to see. I feel like as he got towards the end of this book, he kind of grew up and changed. He probably knows that all the things he wishes to do are not gonna come true and that he is gonna have to follow the rules that were made for people like him. I can relate to this and I know others will, it is true the more you talk about someone you miss the more you miss them. Just the thought of thinking of them and their memories makes it harder to forget them no matter how much you don't want to think about them they are still there. I feel like after a while you don't miss the person, but the memories you shared because as you grow and move on, people change and grow so you can't stick with the past. Holden kind of in a wasy didn't want to let them go and keep them, but he realized that even though all the junk he talked about them he honestly misses them, which makes it harder for him and also for people like us to go through that too.
Hi Ivette, I agree with you! I think Holden found his adulthood path. He is turning more mature now, and shows a big change from the beginning to that last sentence. I think I will miss the old Holden.
"It's such a stupid question, in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do till you do it? The answer is you don't." -Page 213
This quote stood out to me alot. I feel that in this quote, Holden finally directly shows the reader a great characteristic of his. Besides the fact that he drops out of school and clearly doesn't care about his future, this quote shows that he's more of aomeone to live in the moment. I think this also comes from the fact that he doesn't want to make promises to himaelf about the future that he won't keep. That totally goes against is whole motto of not being a phony. However, I think we all can relate to this. There will always be people that live for that moment, and only wish that thinga fall into place on their own. Then there's people like me who basically have next week's outfits planned out. Holden depicted a large idea in just these few words of his.
"If you want to know the truth, I don't know what I think about it."(pg. 213)
This is kind of funny because through out the book he has been telling lies and making up background stories and fake names. But this shows that he really didn't want to. This quote shows that he really didn't need to lie all of the time. He could have been true to himself the whole time and not lied to anyone. The end of the book though is really real, he isn't putting on a fake perspective on it, he is just with Phoebe and like his time with her. In this part he tell us as the reader the real story. The last chapter is just all innermonolge. He explain the book and the lessons he learned on the way. This is when he changes as a character, this is when he shows us that he can tell us the truth.
I agree, I think in chapter 25 Holden finally broke down. After that he couldnt take the lying and not being true to himself anymore. Also, I think he can't take being phony anymore.
"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." Chap. 26 (last page)
This quote stands out to me because Holden once again surprised me. I see the change from the begging of the book towards the end in his personality. I think he had chosen his path to adulthood, and he is not a little lost kid/teenager anymore. He seems more mature than he used to be because he used to hate everyone around him, and now he says that he misses them which I can totally relate myself to. Always when I talk about people it's because they made a important role in my life, even the people that I most hate. This books gives me a lesson that even though that you might hate someone, once you talk about them you start to miss them, and that's why you are talking about them. I think now that I am done reading this book, I am starting to miss Holden as a character.
I agree with you. This quote shows that Holden actually has feelings toward people, I think Allie, and the fact that he is saying this to us is a big step from the beginning of the book. Very big transition I do like however, the fact that you linked the book back to your own personal life. It made your post sound more real, like it actually meant something to you.
Page - 202 "If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world. It's impossible" This line was significant to me, because I think Holden was talking more about himself then the actual 'fuck you' signs. I think that what Holden is trying to say is that even if you have years to try, you can't get everyone to like you. This sentence really symbolised Holden, even though he didn't relate it to himself, it made me think of him straight away, and that is what stood out to me. Holden trys to make people like him and or get him, but it is impossible, no matter how long or hard you try. That is why this line stood out to me.
I agree, when I was reading this I also automatically thought of Holden. But I think it was more of how you can't replace or change who you are, he can't change who he is and where he comes from. I think there are a lot of people in the world who try to change themselves but can't we are who we are and nothing can change that.
I felt so goddamn happy all of a sudden, the way old phoebe kept going around and around."
HE'S HAPPY! HE'S REALLY ACTUALLY HAPPY! After I read this line, it really made me feel sort of happy for holden. This is really the point I've been waiting for: The End. I feel like holden deserved this moment in so many ways, also it was no coincidence that it was phoebe who really made it happen. Since allie died, Holden fell into this kind of hole of despair, I think that was what Mr.Antolini was telling him, and I think that's really what he means when he's talking to Holden about this never ending hole. It was also a moment not only to see Phoebe's innocence( even though we've seen it countless times over) it was also a chance for Holden to shine, in his way of ignoring the Rain and just admiring his little sister have some fun.
I agree with you Holden does deserve this moment of happiness, everyone does. Even though Holden is very depressing I could honestly say many people feel this way especially while they're young. The way one views the world changes.
I agree with you Holden does deserve this moment of happiness, everyone does. Even though Holden is very depressing I could honestly say many people feel this way especially while they're young. The way one views the world changes.
"It's such a stupid question,in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do it till you do it? The answer is you don't." pg 213 I really liked this line, I picked it because it made me realize that it's true, how do we actually know if we're going to do something until we actually do it. I know for me it's like I'm going to do the dishes but how do I know I'm going to do it until I'm actually in front of the sink washing them. I also really liked this line because Holden says afterwards I think I am, but how do I know? the reason I loved that was because it shows that he thiking about applying himself but he isnt 100% sure he is, so its like he isnt making any promises and you dont make any expectations. In life I've noticed that we set expections and make promises and when we don't keep them we disappoint ourselves and the people around us. But with Holden it isn't like that he doesn't want to say he is going to apply himself in school because what if doesnt and gets kicked out again, people are not going to be happy with him, but when he says I think I am, I say to myself he is going to try and that's what matters that he trys and if he doesnt succed at least he gave it a shot, its the thought that counts right?
I agree with you, that you don't know you're going to do something until you actually do it. But I think that Holden feels this way about the question of what he's going to do in the future because people tend to make the decisions they subconsciously wanted to make on short notice. It's a way Holden can understand himself better when he makes decisions on the spot.
"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody."
This quote really stood out to me because at the end of the novel Holden admits he misses everyone that came across him, though it disappoints him that everyone who's important to him sort of drifted apart. I honestly believe this quote means not to look back at the past, but towards the future because talking about it doesn't necessarily bring them back; it just brings back the thought of them. What also has caught my attention is the innocence of kids. The reason I believe Holden looks up at kids so much is because they don't have a real sense on reality. While for Holden reality hits him hard making him realize that the world isn't always what it seems, but in a way you just have to make the best out of it.
I agree, I think part of Holden's depression is that he know the Allie died and their is no way possible to bring him out. Also I think he is kind if worried he know that this is a difficult time stay in touch with Phobe but he wants their relationship close enough so whenever they get closer they won't be learning each other all over again.
"I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again. . . Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. I'd say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. . ." (p. 197-198)
This was significant to me because I think this is what Mr. Antolini was talking about, when he thought Holden was leading himself to a big fall. Holden seems to be afraid of disappearing off the face of the earth here, and he's asking his dead brother to not let him disappear. At this point, Holden isn't exactly in the right mind. It's obvious Holden has been very depressed, he mentions it frequently. Holden has been displeased with the way he's been; he dropped out of most of his schools and he's an outcast. Holden doesn't know who he is, he hasn't figured it out since, as a teenager, he's been stuck between kid and adult, and he doesn't know what he's supposed to be. The quote shows that Holden is afraid no one will remember him, or that he'll disappear off the face of the earth if he doesn't find out who he is, and puts himself out there, soon. He doesn't want to disappear so that he can have another chance to make something of himself. But, on the next page, he talks about how he wants to run away and act like a deaf-mute and how he wants to build a house in the woods, where it's silent. So this leads me to the question, does he really not want to disappear? I think this is another way he is confused about himself and who he is as a person.
I definitely agree! This was probably one of the strongest quotes in the chapter. I like how you related the quote to the past chapters with Mr. Antolini. I also think that Holden needed something to wake him up from HIS reality and figure out what he wants to be in life. He doesn't know who he is or what he will be in the future.
"somebody had written Fuck you and the wall. It drove me damn crazy." That quote made me question Holden personality. I thought Holden put himself out like a tough guy. I'm not quite sure why it effected him. But I think it had something to do with the environment that it was written in. A lot of times in the world we don't care if someone is mean to you but when it's someone close you can get even more effected. Also he learned about the real world quickly and I think he would like to shield Phoebe as much as possible.
"I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it, and how they'd wonder what the hell it meant, and then finally some dirty kid would tell them — all cockeyed, naturally — what it meant, and how they'd all think about it and maybe even worry about it for a couple of days. I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it." page 201
This quote stood out to me because his desire to keep innocence stood out. Holden himself, swears all the time, but when he sees this in a SCHOOL, he gets very affected. These are little kids who see this, so when they do and someone tells them about it, they learn about a word that ONLY adults are supposed to know and "lose" their innocence. I can relate to this because it upsets me too (and probably many others) when little kids are doing something that grown ups are supposed to do. It's sad to see kids want to grow up so fast and they don't realize the freedom they have. They're so much happier and just like Holden thinks they're innocent and GENUINE. They are true to themselves and what they want.
"The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them." chapter 25
I choose this quote because it relates back to another quote "I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.". The second quote has to do with Holden trying to preserve children's innocence and prevent them from falling into adulthood. Holden wanted to be this "catcher in the rye" to protect Phoebe from growing up. The quote on chapter 25 is said by Holden while he is watching Phoebe ride a carousel. This quote is the opposite of the the older quote. Holden is letting Phoebe go and fall into adulthood. This is a very big transition Holden makes and this quote really shows how Holden grew up and moved on. He did the right thing by letting Phoebe lose her innocence because in reality, you can't be a kid forever.
I completely agree with you when you say: "Holden is letting Phoebe go and fall into adulthood." By letting Phoebe go and move on into adulthood, I think Holden is also letting himself go. I think this is the first time where Holden realizes he has to grow up too, and he's ok with that. He truly admits that he's happy for the first time in the book he says "I was damn near bawling." I think this is because he is no longer burdened with sadness from having to get older, and now he is realizing that it is not so bad. I believe, in their lives, people have similar epiphanies, when they realize that something they thought was truly terrible, wasn't that bad.
"I thought I'd just go down, down, down and nobody'd ever see me again" (p.197)
This line really interested me, I thought it was very strange. I think this line really represent's Holden's mental state at the time, he is very depressed and lonely. I also think this relates back to what Mr. Antolini said about Holden's upcoming "fall." I think this has to do with Holden's emotions, and how he is just going to get so sad about everything at some point, that nothing will ever be happy again. I believe this relates to people in the world, often times when a person is a on a "bad path," you say they will make things better when the hit "rockbottom." I think Holden differs from most people who make wrong choices because he will never hit the bottom, he will just keep falling until his whole life is just regret. I think Holden is afraid that no one will ever notice him and how he feels, that he will just "disappear." I believe everyone fears this, that you will not be cared for, unique or recognized. This goes with the setting of New York City too, because there are so many people, it is difficult to make yourself unique from the 8 million others.
"It's such a stupid question, in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do till you do it? The answer is, you don't. I think I am, but how do I know? I swear it's a stupid question." (pg.213)
Holden is saying you never truely know who you are and what you can accomplish until you make an effort to try and actually perform the action. Holden had no idea leaving Pencey a few days earlier than he was supposed to, would turn into such a life-changing experience. Throughout the book, the reader can clearly see the evolution of Holden's character. At the beginning of the book, he was a misunderstood snotty kid who was a loner and didn't really seem to like anyone. However by the end of the book, Holden has matured into a more sympathetic adult who thinks twice before making a judgement about something or somebody. In the last chapter of the book, Holden's immature language and thoughts have been curbed somewhat and from what he tells the reader, it is asummed he is currently in a pyshciatric facility. The reader knows Holden is not in there permanently (at least, we hope not), and that have someone to help him sort out his life seems to have smoothed his personality out somewhat.
I couldn't agree more. Holden evolved into a much more mature person than at the start. I think this book is meat to tell us that growing up isn't something that is forced or intentional, it's something that we all go through one way or the other, and that we shouldn't feel so alone while it's happening because everyone has had a similar experience.
"I think, if I ever die, and they stick me in a cemetery, and I have a tombstone and all, it'll say Holden Caufeild on it...and then right under that, it'll say 'fuck you'." P:204 This quote stood out to me because of how Holden is starting to look at the world a different way. For starters, he says "IF I ever die" instead of "WHEN I die." To me this shows how much more of a desire to live he has. Before Holden accepted death as a harsh reality, something that was inevitable and therefore shouldn't be feared. But now that Phoebe has reentered his life, he feels that he has something to loose. Secondly, this is the first time that Holden really looks down on this sort of cynical behavior. Through out the entire book, Holden has had a disposition similar to that expressed by writing "fuck you" on the wall. Now that he is reminded that there are people in the world who care about him, and that he cares about too, he sees this type of out look to be childish. Even though he accepts this attitude as something that will always exist, he isn't as passive about it as he's been in the past. Salinger is trying to tell us that as long as we find something that we can keep us in reality like an anchor, we won't abandon our lives out of fear.
"That's all I'm going to tell about. I could probably tell you what I did after I went home, and how I got sick and all, and what school I'm supposed to go to next fall, after I get out of here, but I don't feel like it I really don't that stuff doesn't interest me right now."(page 213)
I like this quote because I think it is very much in both present tense and past tense. I think the two tenses really adds to his tone because he himself is lost between to time periods. I wonder if Holden still is trying to gain sympethy from us in the end or if he finialy is becoming himself. I think this quote contrasts nicely with the last line of the book witch is ironic because it is the first line of the chapter. The line says "Don't ever tell anybody anything.If you do, you start missing everybody." It goes with my line because he is very much telling us something through out the intire book, so maybe he is afraid we will leave him so he says good bye first. the funny thing is that since Holden is a charector in a book we never have to say goodbye to him he is always there, in that moment of some what inocense, telling the same story. I think if Holden could choose he would be happy being in a book for thoughs reasons.
“If we had any children, we’d hide them somewhere… pretending I was a deaf-mute was crazy, but I liked thinking about it anyway” (199). The reason Holden wants to hide his children is because he wants to preserve their innocence. In his eyes he wants to keep them from falling off the cliff. The reason Holden wants to be pretend to be a deaf-mute is because he doesn’t want to be someone he’s not. He feels like if he spoke and listened to people thee rest of his life he would become more and more phony. I am worried for Holden. After holding in his depression and some anger he is finally breaking down. The lesson one could learn hear is if you are having problems don’t resist help; don’t let what’s bothering you build up inside you and escalate to the level of Holden’s problems.
I completely agree with you. I think that, like him wanting to be a catcher in the rye (metaphor for catching peoples innocence), or locking people up in glass cases, reflects that idea of wanting to keep his kids innocent as well.
"That's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write "fuck you" right under your nose."
This line stood out to me a lot, because it basically sums up his opinions and feelings towards most things. It's a very negative way of thinking, but it's also really accurate and realistic. I think that Holden feels this way because he had been depressed for so long- nothing really seemed too nice. Now that he's happier and back at home, he sees that someone wrote "fuck you" on the wall, and that supports his belief that there are no nice places. This might also be because Holden finds innocence the nicest thing of all, and you can't really have innocence where something like that is written on a wall.
I agree, especially with the part about innocence. For Holden, innocence is the most important quality anything, a building or a place. "Fuck you" must have really angered him when he saw it written in the school because that would cause many kids to lose there innocence. Katya
"It was exactly the same as it was when I went there....the stairs had the same smell they used to when I went there." (bottom of 199, 200)
This stood out to me because I think Holden was very happy that the elementary school stayed the same. I know how much Holden dislikes change, and how much he wants to preserve others' innocence. Because the school stayed the same, it even had the same smells, it had kept its innocence, which is especially important because it is filled with young children. I think Holden was also happy that his elementary school stayed the same because he had good memories with the school such as going to the Natural History Museum with his class. If the school change, Holden would say 'it made him depressed', and his happy memories would be wiped out of his mind. He would then associate the school with bad thoughts, making it another of many things for Holden to hate.
I agree, he loves consistency. It's sad to hear him always depressed, so actually hearing him happy made me a happy reader as well. I wonder what would he have done if everything was different...throw a rampage?
"'You keep it. Keep it for me,' she said. Then she said right afterwards-'Please.' That's depressing, when somebody says "please" to you. I mean, if it's Phoebe or somebody. That depressed the hell out of me. But I put the dough back in my pocket."
This line stood out to me the most at the end of the book. I felt like Holden displayed true emotion towards his sister, yet again. Their relationship is so strong and inspiring, how could he say no to her? It was very suprizing when he kept the money, considering he worried about it every second, trying his best not to spend any of it. Now it's his. I think Phoebe asked him to keep it because she knew he wouldn't have, she knew what he was going through, and she wanted for him to do something for her, in a way. To show he mean't business when he said he was going to stay home, I think she wanted proof. Keeping the money showed that Holden was going to stay, because he wouldn't have wanted to spend it. This also made me a little sad, to hear the seriousness and innocence in Phoebe's voice. It stood out a lot to me.
“’Do you want to go for a ride on it?’” I said. I knew she probably did. When she was a tiny little kid, and Allie and D.B. and I used to go to the park with her, she was mad about the Carrousel. You couldn’t get her off the goddam thing. ‘I’m to big.’ She said. I though she wasn’t going to answer me, but she did. ‘No, you’re not. Go on. I’ll wait for ya. Go on.’” This quote really stood out to me, because it directly showed Holden trying to protect Phoebe’s innocence. In this chapter, you see a teenagers thinking and a child’s thinking contrast. Phoebe thinks that she is to big, and mature for the Carrousel, even though she isn’t. Holden, however, wants to be a child, and regain that innocence that Phoebe has, and since he loves her, he tries to preserve it. Generally, kids want to be adults, adults want to be kids, and in the quote, we can clearly see that contrast in Holden and Phoebe. Holden has shown throughout the book that he wants people to stay innocent, for example, when he talks about wanting to put everyone in a glass case, in the museum. One of the main things that keeps Holden happy throughout the book is thinking about Phoebe and her innocence, but now she is trying to grow up, saying that she is to big to do something she loves. Because Holden knows how precious her innocence is, he tries to quickly respond to her and convince her that she is still young, and can ride the Carrousel. In the end, she ends up riding the Carrousel, which makes Holden very happy. I think that this is because he knows that, in the end, she remained a child, and this gives him hope that Phoebe can remain innocent for a while longer.
"I'd say to him, 'Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. Please, Allie.'" pg. 198
ReplyDeleteI thought this quote was very significant because it shows what keeps Holden anchored and present in the world, when he's most afraid, is Allie. It made me wonder, why doesn't Holden think of Phoebe, or his mother, or Jane Gallagher, when he doesn't want to fade into nothing? I think it is because Allie is the only person in Holden's life who will never grow up, never become a phony, never change. Throughout the book we have seen the way Holden is incredibly immature, not wanting to become an like those around him who grow older, conform to society, loose their innocence, and have hidden motivations or sugar coated lives. I believe Holden is afraid of this change because the first major alteration in his life was Allie's death, the loss of a family member he loved. On some level, he must fear disappearing, going into the unknown as Allie did, as more change comes to his life. Holden holds on to Allie because he doesn't want to lose the innocence and purity that will last forever in his memory. He appeals to Allie because he wishes he too could never be pressured to conform, never have to go through all the changes that intimidate and confuse teenagers. Maybe even if the price is death.
I completely agree. Holden is always so concerned about growing up. I never really thought about how his feelings for Allie could relate to the not-growing-up aspect. When I stop and think about it, it is very true. I also think that Holden always talks about Allie because he had experienced death. Holden is always talking about death; saying he would sit on a bomb, etc. Death intriueges him, and so, Allie is always a big topic on his mind.
DeleteI totally agree. Allie died as a child with the innocence and purity that Holden loves. Allie in Holden's mind will always be the same because Allie didn't have to grow up or go through the changes in the process of becoming an adult. Holden wants Allie to hold him the way he is right now and don't let him turn into something that he wouldn't recognize later on.
Delete"I sat down for a second, and then i felt better. But while i was sitting down, i saw something that drove me crazy. Somebody'd written "Fuck you" on the wall."
ReplyDeleteHe was worried that what he wants and doesnt these kids are going to lose. He is worry that his sister will see that and that will take over her. He gets mad at that person because all those little kids will see that. Many schools have this type of language all around the and many kids see that and that will change them. In every school there are kids that are bad for you but its always on the kid to pick weather or not to follow it.
I agree with you. However, I think Holden knows that if I kid sees this, they're going to want to know what it means. Then when they find out, they learn other bad words and eventually, the child's mind will become so polluted that they will lose their innocence.
Delete"A million little kids were downtown with their mothers, getting on and off buses and coming in and out of stores. I wished old phoebe was around. She's not little enough anymore to go stark staring mad in the toy department, but she enjoys horsing around and looking at the people. The Christmas before last I took her downtown shopping with me. We had a helluva time." (page 197)
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because it shows how badly Holden enjoyed and misses childhood. He so badly wants to be a kid again. That is why Holden wants Phoebe to be there with him, because she reminds him of his childhood, and that reminder is one of the few things that makes him happy. Holden also just likes being around kids. He gets along with them better then adults. He can relate to them more because, besides the smoking, drinking, and dancing in clubs, Holden is childish himself.
I agree with you completely. Holden loves childhood aand innocence and the way kids aren't phony. He's afraid of growing up and maybe loosing all of that. Maybe he even smokes,drinks, and goes to clubs as a way to convince himself that he will be fine being an adult. He is just stuck in the middle, being a teenager, and not really fitting anywhere. I think everyone can relate to that.
DeleteI completely agree. Holden just wants to go back to his days of innocence and he clearly does not want to give up on the benefits of being a child; he doesn't like change at all from what i can tell.
Delete"The christmas before last I took her downtown shopping with me. We had a helluva time. I think it was in bloomingdale's. We went in the shoe department and we pretended she- old phoebe wanted to get a pair of those very high storm shoes, the kind that have a million holes to lace up." -page 196
ReplyDeleteThis passage showed me that when Holden tends to get stressed out and on the edge that he just has to relax and enjoy life from time to time. The truth is that we can't just do all work and no play; we need to enjoy life to the fullest extent of our capabilities. That's what Holden has been trying to accomplish throughout the book; to love life for what it is. Sometimes we just need to void our lives of the intense stress we face in this world we live in to just have fun. That's what life is all about really; balancing your duties in this world with the vast amount of fun that the world has to offer. That's really the moral of the story, do your best but remember, have fun!- Connor O'Rourke B band
sorry, its page 197
DeleteI love your message and I agree, Holden just wants to enjoy life and do something out of the ordinary, yet in the back of his mind, he knows he won't be able to do that. he tries to run away from responsibilities, but he knows that he will never be able to do that. I feel like enjoying life is not doing everything you want, but also cherishing time with the people you love and Holden has that, but he isn;t really able to appreciate that.
Delete" Somebody'd written 'Fuck you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy."
ReplyDeleteThis line reminds me of the discussion in class we had about how Holden wants to be the catcher in the rye. He wants to prevent the kids from all the awfulness in the world. He doesn't want the kids to see or learn what is the meaning of the phrase and he wants to kids to be in a clean, happy, and healthy environment. He wants the best for all of them. I was just wondering if the reason for his cursing nonstop is because he grows up hearing them and that's why he doesn't want the kids to grow up just like him? Does he know his future already because he wants to keep the kids away from turning into someone like him and have the same future as he will? Holden doesn't seem to care if people curse where there is no children around. Don't forget that he feels horrible for yelling at Phoebe to shut up.
I totally agree, and isn't it funny how it's ironic that he's always cursing and Phoebe has to tell him to stop swearing all the time.
DeleteSo true! Good observation, Grace!
Delete"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody."
ReplyDelete-Page 214
I chose this quote because of the change in Holden and the connection to today. IN his adventure in the book he met more phonies than "real" people, yet now he's missing all of them no matter how much they annoyed him. I never thought of this before, but whenever I would tell a story involving people from my past, I would say that I missed them afterwords. This might be why many people don't discuss events that happened in their past. For example, my grandmother had a rough childhood with her brother dying in WW II and her sister dying of a disease at age 20. My family would always wonder why we would never hear anything about them, but now I understand that she would just miss them too much. This is probably how most people think too.
I agree with you 100%. I think that though Holden considered all of them to be phonies, he can't really understand his life as well without them in it. I think that he's so used to them being there, that it's what makes him feel so real. I also found it significant that fhis was hil last line. Not only do I think it's in regards to Allie as well, but the novel itself. I think Holden, as a narrator, is going to miss sharing his story with us, the readers. I think in a way, we all become sad after we tell someone basically everything and no longer have them.
Delete" Its funny, don't tell anybody anything. If you, you start missing everybody." pg 214
ReplyDeleteHolden suprises one last time. He finally admits how much he missed everyone he talked about. He kind of shows that side of his thought that we never really were able to see. I feel like as he got towards the end of this book, he kind of grew up and changed. He probably knows that all the things he wishes to do are not gonna come true and that he is gonna have to follow the rules that were made for people like him. I can relate to this and I know others will, it is true the more you talk about someone you miss the more you miss them. Just the thought of thinking of them and their memories makes it harder to forget them no matter how much you don't want to think about them they are still there. I feel like after a while you don't miss the person, but the memories you shared because as you grow and move on, people change and grow so you can't stick with the past. Holden kind of in a wasy didn't want to let them go and keep them, but he realized that even though all the junk he talked about them he honestly misses them, which makes it harder for him and also for people like us to go through that too.
Hi Ivette, I agree with you! I think Holden found his adulthood path. He is turning more mature now, and shows a big change from the beginning to that last sentence. I think I will miss the old Holden.
Delete"It's such a stupid question, in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do till you do it? The answer is you don't." -Page 213
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me alot. I feel that in this quote, Holden finally directly shows the reader a great characteristic of his. Besides the fact that he drops out of school and clearly doesn't care about his future, this quote shows that he's more of aomeone to live in the moment. I think this also comes from the fact that he doesn't want to make promises to himaelf about the future that he won't keep. That totally goes against is whole motto of not being a phony. However, I think we all can relate to this. There will always be people that live for that moment, and only wish that thinga fall into place on their own. Then there's people like me who basically have next week's outfits planned out. Holden depicted a large idea in just these few words of his.
Matt Baldwin
ReplyDelete"If you want to know the truth, I don't know what I think about it."(pg. 213)
This is kind of funny because through out the book he has been telling lies and making up background stories and fake names. But this shows that he really didn't want to. This quote shows that he really didn't need to lie all of the time. He could have been true to himself the whole time and not lied to anyone. The end of the book though is really real, he isn't putting on a fake perspective on it, he is just with Phoebe and like his time with her. In this part he tell us as the reader the real story. The last chapter is just all innermonolge. He explain the book and the lessons he learned on the way. This is when he changes as a character, this is when he shows us that he can tell us the truth.
I agree, I think in chapter 25 Holden finally broke down. After that he couldnt take the lying and not being true to himself anymore. Also, I think he can't take being phony anymore.
Delete"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody."
ReplyDeleteChap. 26 (last page)
This quote stands out to me because Holden once again surprised me. I see the change from the begging of the book towards the end in his personality. I think he had chosen his path to adulthood, and he is not a little lost kid/teenager anymore. He seems more mature than he used to be because he used to hate everyone around him, and now he says that he misses them which I can totally relate myself to. Always when I talk about people it's because they made a important role in my life, even the people that I most hate. This books gives me a lesson that even though that you might hate someone, once you talk about them you start to miss them, and that's why you are talking about them. I think now that I am done reading this book, I am starting to miss Holden as a character.
I agree with you. This quote shows that Holden actually has feelings toward people, I think Allie, and the fact that he is saying this to us is a big step from the beginning of the book. Very big transition I do like however, the fact that you linked the book back to your own personal life. It made your post sound more real, like it actually meant something to you.
DeletePage - 202
ReplyDelete"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world. It's impossible"
This line was significant to me, because I think Holden was talking more about himself then the actual 'fuck you' signs. I think that what Holden is trying to say is that even if you have years to try, you can't get everyone to like you. This sentence really symbolised Holden, even though he didn't relate it to himself, it made me think of him straight away, and that is what stood out to me. Holden trys to make people like him and or get him, but it is impossible, no matter how long or hard you try. That is why this line stood out to me.
I agree, when I was reading this I also automatically thought of Holden. But I think it was more of how you can't replace or change who you are, he can't change who he is and where he comes from. I think there are a lot of people in the world who try to change themselves but can't we are who we are and nothing can change that.
DeleteI felt so goddamn happy all of a sudden, the way old phoebe kept going around and around."
ReplyDeleteHE'S HAPPY! HE'S REALLY ACTUALLY HAPPY! After I read this line, it really made me feel sort of happy for holden. This is really the point I've been waiting for: The End. I feel like holden deserved this moment in so many ways, also it was no coincidence that it was phoebe who really made it happen. Since allie died, Holden fell into this kind of hole of despair, I think that was what Mr.Antolini was telling him, and I think that's really what he means when he's talking to Holden about this never ending hole. It was also a moment not only to see Phoebe's innocence( even though we've seen it countless times over) it was also a chance for Holden to shine, in his way of ignoring the Rain and just admiring his little sister have some fun.
I agree with you Holden does deserve this moment of happiness, everyone does. Even though Holden is very depressing I could honestly say many people feel this way especially while they're young. The way one views the world changes.
DeleteI agree with you Holden does deserve this moment of happiness, everyone does. Even though Holden is very depressing I could honestly say many people feel this way especially while they're young. The way one views the world changes.
ReplyDelete"It's such a stupid question,in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do it till you do it? The answer is you don't." pg 213
ReplyDeleteI really liked this line, I picked it because it made me realize that it's true, how do we actually know if we're going to do something until we actually do it. I know for me it's like I'm going to do the dishes but how do I know I'm going to do it until I'm actually in front of the sink washing them. I also really liked this line because Holden says afterwards I think I am, but how do I know? the reason I loved that was because it shows that he thiking about applying himself but he isnt 100% sure he is, so its like he isnt making any promises and you dont make any expectations. In life I've noticed that we set expections and make promises and when we don't keep them we disappoint ourselves and the people around us. But with Holden it isn't like that he doesn't want to say he is going to apply himself in school because what if doesnt and gets kicked out again, people are not going to be happy with him, but when he says I think I am, I say to myself he is going to try and that's what matters that he trys and if he doesnt succed at least he gave it a shot, its the thought that counts right?
I agree with you, that you don't know you're going to do something until you actually do it. But I think that Holden feels this way about the question of what he's going to do in the future because people tend to make the decisions they subconsciously wanted to make on short notice. It's a way Holden can understand himself better when he makes decisions on the spot.
Delete"Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody."
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because at the end of the novel Holden admits he misses everyone that came across him, though it disappoints him that everyone who's important to him sort of drifted apart. I honestly believe this quote means not to look back at the past, but towards the future because talking about it doesn't necessarily bring them back; it just brings back the thought of them. What also has caught my attention is the innocence of kids. The reason I believe Holden looks up at kids so much is because they don't have a real sense on reality. While for Holden reality hits him hard making him realize that the world isn't always what it seems, but in a way you just have to make the best out of it.
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DeleteI agree, I think part of Holden's depression is that he know the Allie died and their is no way possible to bring him out. Also I think he is kind if worried he know that this is a difficult time stay in touch with Phobe but he wants their relationship close enough so whenever they get closer they won't be learning each other all over again.
Delete"I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again. . . Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. I'd say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear. Allie, don't let me disappear. . ." (p. 197-198)
ReplyDeleteThis was significant to me because I think this is what Mr. Antolini was talking about, when he thought Holden was leading himself to a big fall. Holden seems to be afraid of disappearing off the face of the earth here, and he's asking his dead brother to not let him disappear. At this point, Holden isn't exactly in the right mind. It's obvious Holden has been very depressed, he mentions it frequently. Holden has been displeased with the way he's been; he dropped out of most of his schools and he's an outcast. Holden doesn't know who he is, he hasn't figured it out since, as a teenager, he's been stuck between kid and adult, and he doesn't know what he's supposed to be. The quote shows that Holden is afraid no one will remember him, or that he'll disappear off the face of the earth if he doesn't find out who he is, and puts himself out there, soon. He doesn't want to disappear so that he can have another chance to make something of himself. But, on the next page, he talks about how he wants to run away and act like a deaf-mute and how he wants to build a house in the woods, where it's silent. So this leads me to the question, does he really not want to disappear? I think this is another way he is confused about himself and who he is as a person.
I definitely agree! This was probably one of the strongest quotes in the chapter. I like how you related the quote to the past chapters with Mr. Antolini. I also think that Holden needed something to wake him up from HIS reality and figure out what he wants to be in life. He doesn't know who he is or what he will be in the future.
Delete"somebody had written Fuck you and the wall. It drove me damn crazy."
ReplyDeleteThat quote made me question Holden personality. I thought Holden put himself out like a tough guy. I'm not quite sure why it effected him. But I think it had something to do with the environment that it was written in. A lot of times in the world we don't care if someone is mean to you but when it's someone close you can get even more effected. Also he learned about the real world quickly and I think he would like to shield Phoebe as much as possible.
"I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it, and how they'd wonder what the hell it meant, and then finally some dirty kid would tell them — all cockeyed, naturally — what it meant, and how they'd all think about it and maybe even worry about it for a couple of days. I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it." page 201
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because his desire to keep innocence stood out. Holden himself, swears all the time, but when he sees this in a SCHOOL, he gets very affected. These are little kids who see this, so when they do and someone tells them about it, they learn about a word that ONLY adults are supposed to know and "lose" their innocence. I can relate to this because it upsets me too (and probably many others) when little kids are doing something that grown ups are supposed to do. It's sad to see kids want to grow up so fast and they don't realize the freedom they have. They're so much happier and just like Holden thinks they're innocent and GENUINE. They are true to themselves and what they want.
I completely agree! I think that innocence will always be something that Holden values over most other things.
Delete"The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them." chapter 25
ReplyDeleteI choose this quote because it relates back to another quote "I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.". The second quote has to do with Holden trying to preserve children's innocence and prevent them from falling into adulthood. Holden wanted to be this "catcher in the rye" to protect Phoebe from growing up. The quote on chapter 25 is said by Holden while he is watching Phoebe ride a carousel. This quote is the opposite of the the older quote. Holden is letting Phoebe go and fall into adulthood. This is a very big transition Holden makes and this quote really shows how Holden grew up and moved on. He did the right thing by letting Phoebe lose her innocence because in reality, you can't be a kid forever.
I completely agree with you when you say: "Holden is letting Phoebe go and fall into adulthood." By letting Phoebe go and move on into adulthood, I think Holden is also letting himself go. I think this is the first time where Holden realizes he has to grow up too, and he's ok with that. He truly admits that he's happy for the first time in the book he says "I was damn near bawling." I think this is because he is no longer burdened with sadness from having to get older, and now he is realizing that it is not so bad. I believe, in their lives, people have similar epiphanies, when they realize that something they thought was truly terrible, wasn't that bad.
Delete"I thought I'd just go down, down, down and nobody'd ever see me again" (p.197)
ReplyDeleteThis line really interested me, I thought it was very strange. I think this line really represent's Holden's mental state at the time, he is very depressed and lonely. I also think this relates back to what Mr. Antolini said about Holden's upcoming "fall." I think this has to do with Holden's emotions, and how he is just going to get so sad about everything at some point, that nothing will ever be happy again. I believe this relates to people in the world, often times when a person is a on a "bad path," you say they will make things better when the hit "rockbottom." I think Holden differs from most people who make wrong choices because he will never hit the bottom, he will just keep falling until his whole life is just regret. I think Holden is afraid that no one will ever notice him and how he feels, that he will just "disappear." I believe everyone fears this, that you will not be cared for, unique or recognized. This goes with the setting of New York City too, because there are so many people, it is difficult to make yourself unique from the 8 million others.
"It's such a stupid question, in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do till you do it? The answer is, you don't. I think I am, but how do I know? I swear it's a stupid question." (pg.213)
ReplyDeleteHolden is saying you never truely know who you are and what you can accomplish until you make an effort to try and actually perform the action. Holden had no idea leaving Pencey a few days earlier than he was supposed to, would turn into such a life-changing experience. Throughout the book, the reader can clearly see the evolution of Holden's character. At the beginning of the book, he was a misunderstood snotty kid who was a loner and didn't really seem to like anyone. However by the end of the book, Holden has matured into a more sympathetic adult who thinks twice before making a judgement about something or somebody.
In the last chapter of the book, Holden's immature language and thoughts have been curbed somewhat and from what he tells the reader, it is asummed he is currently in a pyshciatric facility. The reader knows Holden is not in there permanently (at least, we hope not), and that have someone to help him sort out his life seems to have smoothed his personality out somewhat.
I couldn't agree more. Holden evolved into a much more mature person than at the start. I think this book is meat to tell us that growing up isn't something that is forced or intentional, it's something that we all go through one way or the other, and that we shouldn't feel so alone while it's happening because everyone has had a similar experience.
Delete"I think, if I ever die, and they stick me in a cemetery, and I have a tombstone and all, it'll say Holden Caufeild on it...and then right under that, it'll say 'fuck you'."
ReplyDeleteP:204
This quote stood out to me because of how Holden is starting to look at the world a different way. For starters, he says "IF I ever die" instead of "WHEN I die." To me this shows how much more of a desire to live he has. Before Holden accepted death as a harsh reality, something that was inevitable and therefore shouldn't be feared. But now that Phoebe has reentered his life, he feels that he has something to loose. Secondly, this is the first time that Holden really looks down on this sort of cynical behavior. Through out the entire book, Holden has had a disposition similar to that expressed by writing "fuck you" on the wall. Now that he is reminded that there are people in the world who care about him, and that he cares about too, he sees this type of out look to be childish. Even though he accepts this attitude as something that will always exist, he isn't as passive about it as he's been in the past. Salinger is trying to tell us that as long as we find something that we can keep us in reality like an anchor, we won't abandon our lives out of fear.
I really like the quote you chose. I think it is a perfect mix of sadness and humor witch seems to be our English unit study.
Delete"That's all I'm going to tell about. I could probably tell you what I did after I went home, and how I got sick and all, and what school I'm supposed to go to next fall, after I get out of here, but I don't feel like it I really don't that stuff doesn't interest me right now."(page 213)
ReplyDeleteI like this quote because I think it is very much in both present tense and past tense. I think the two tenses really adds to his tone because he himself is lost between to time periods. I wonder if Holden still is trying to gain sympethy from us in the end or if he finialy is becoming himself. I think this quote contrasts nicely with the last line of the book witch is ironic because it is the first line of the chapter. The line says "Don't ever tell anybody anything.If you do, you start missing everybody." It goes with my line because he is very much telling us something through out the intire book, so maybe he is afraid we will leave him so he says good bye first. the funny thing is that since Holden is a charector in a book we never have to say goodbye to him he is always there, in that moment of some what inocense, telling the same story. I think if Holden could choose he would be happy being in a book for thoughs reasons.
“If we had any children, we’d hide them somewhere… pretending I was a deaf-mute was crazy, but I liked thinking about it anyway” (199).
ReplyDeleteThe reason Holden wants to hide his children is because he wants to preserve their innocence. In his eyes he wants to keep them from falling off the cliff. The reason Holden wants to be pretend to be a deaf-mute is because he doesn’t want to be someone he’s not. He feels like if he spoke and listened to people thee rest of his life he would become more and more phony. I am worried for Holden. After holding in his depression and some anger he is finally breaking down. The lesson one could learn hear is if you are having problems don’t resist help; don’t let what’s bothering you build up inside you and escalate to the level of Holden’s problems.
I completely agree with you. I think that, like him wanting to be a catcher in the rye (metaphor for catching peoples innocence), or locking people up in glass cases, reflects that idea of wanting to keep his kids innocent as well.
DeleteWhy should he interact with others? What is the benefit of opening oneself up to humanity?
Delete"That's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write "fuck you" right under your nose."
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me a lot, because it basically sums up his opinions and feelings towards most things. It's a very negative way of thinking, but it's also really accurate and realistic. I think that Holden feels this way because he had been depressed for so long- nothing really seemed too nice. Now that he's happier and back at home, he sees that someone wrote "fuck you" on the wall, and that supports his belief that there are no nice places. This might also be because Holden finds innocence the nicest thing of all, and you can't really have innocence where something like that is written on a wall.
I agree, especially with the part about innocence. For Holden, innocence is the most important quality anything, a building or a place. "Fuck you" must have really angered him when he saw it written in the school because that would cause many kids to lose there innocence.
DeleteKatya
Katya Bakal-Schlomann
ReplyDelete"It was exactly the same as it was when I went there....the stairs had the same smell they used to when I went there." (bottom of 199, 200)
This stood out to me because I think Holden was very happy that the elementary school stayed the same. I know how much Holden dislikes change, and how much he wants to preserve others' innocence. Because the school stayed the same, it even had the same smells, it had kept its innocence, which is especially important because it is filled with young children.
I think Holden was also happy that his elementary school stayed the same because he had good memories with the school such as going to the Natural History Museum with his class. If the school change, Holden would say 'it made him depressed', and his happy memories would be wiped out of his mind. He would then associate the school with bad thoughts, making it another of many things for Holden to hate.
I agree, he loves consistency. It's sad to hear him always depressed, so actually hearing him happy made me a happy reader as well. I wonder what would he have done if everything was different...throw a rampage?
Delete"'You keep it. Keep it for me,' she said. Then she said right afterwards-'Please.'
ReplyDeleteThat's depressing, when somebody says "please" to you. I mean, if it's Phoebe or somebody. That depressed the hell out of me. But I put the dough back in my pocket."
This line stood out to me the most at the end of the book. I felt like Holden displayed true emotion towards his sister, yet again. Their relationship is so strong and inspiring, how could he say no to her? It was very suprizing when he kept the money, considering he worried about it every second, trying his best not to spend any of it. Now it's his. I think Phoebe asked him to keep it because she knew he wouldn't have, she knew what he was going through, and she wanted for him to do something for her, in a way. To show he mean't business when he said he was going to stay home, I think she wanted proof. Keeping the money showed that Holden was going to stay, because he wouldn't have wanted to spend it. This also made me a little sad, to hear the seriousness and innocence in Phoebe's voice. It stood out a lot to me.
“’Do you want to go for a ride on it?’” I said. I knew she probably did. When she was a tiny little kid, and Allie and D.B. and I used to go to the park with her, she was mad about the Carrousel. You couldn’t get her off the goddam thing. ‘I’m to big.’ She said. I though she wasn’t going to answer me, but she did. ‘No, you’re not. Go on. I’ll wait for ya. Go on.’”
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me, because it directly showed Holden trying to protect Phoebe’s innocence. In this chapter, you see a teenagers thinking and a child’s thinking contrast. Phoebe thinks that she is to big, and mature for the Carrousel, even though she isn’t. Holden, however, wants to be a child, and regain that innocence that Phoebe has, and since he loves her, he tries to preserve it. Generally, kids want to be adults, adults want to be kids, and in the quote, we can clearly see that contrast in Holden and Phoebe. Holden has shown throughout the book that he wants people to stay innocent, for example, when he talks about wanting to put everyone in a glass case, in the museum. One of the main things that keeps Holden happy throughout the book is thinking about Phoebe and her innocence, but now she is trying to grow up, saying that she is to big to do something she loves. Because Holden knows how precious her innocence is, he tries to quickly respond to her and convince her that she is still young, and can ride the Carrousel. In the end, she ends up riding the Carrousel, which makes Holden very happy. I think that this is because he knows that, in the end, she remained a child, and this gives him hope that Phoebe can remain innocent for a while longer.