Post
your reader responses here: Choose a line from the text and explain why
it stands out to you. Does this line shock you, confuse you, or seem
important in some way? Does it make you ask a question? Can you make a
connection to your life or another text? What is this line saying about
Holden, and then what is this line saying about people, or the world, in
general?
Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward. Ask more questions to keep the dialogue going...
"He didn't have time to go around analyzing everybody. I said I wasn't blaming Jesus or anything. It wasn't his fault that he didn't have any time. I remember I asked old childs if he thought Judas, the one that betrayed Jesus and all, went to hell after he committed suicide. Childs said certainly. That's exactly where I disagree with him."- page 100
ReplyDeleteHolden is a unique thinker; he thinks outside of the box and questions the world around him. I'm starting to think that this is the reason why he is so lonely, he's different and he just wants to find someone like him to share ideas and perspectives about life; he lacks a figure to relate to. To think differently than the status quo, that is the key to a great lifestyle; just think about the numerous people in the world who have revolutionized everything around us just because they thought in a different manner. People don't understand Holden because they're simply repelled by his significant difference from the status quo. I'm looking forward to reading on, it's a very interesting book in my opinion.- Connor O'Rourke, B band
I agree. I think that, for example, even when he was talking to the nun about Romeo and Juliet, he had a very unique perspective on the book. But the nun just tried to change the topic because she didn't like his way of thinking. I think, a lot of the time, people just don't understand his way of thinking, and just don't want to admit that, so they try to avoid it.
DeleteI agree with your comment. Everyone has a different way of viewing things and the city that he's from just probably ruins the way he thinks. Holden's probably use to talking to anyone the way he wants because he knows them however, he doesnt understand that some people may get offended by what he says.
DeleteI agree. Because of his own experience, Holden has a different perspective about the world. He thinks outside the box and call people a moron probably because he doesn't agree with other's base on his experience. He's probably saying: "I've been through things like that and that is not at all how it is. You don't know because you haven't actually gone through it." I think his childhood has a big effect on the way he views life.
Delete“The thing is, it’s really hard to be roommates with people if your suitcases are much better then theirs-if yours are really good ones and theirs aren’t. You think if they’re intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don’t give a damn whose suitcases are better, but they do.”
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me, because I think that Holden, however many times he calls people a moron or a phony, does care about people he likes. In the past, Holden has described many people who he hates, all of them phonies, who he completely insults. And then there are people, very few of them, that he likes, such as Phoebe and Jane. When Holden talked about Jane, he talked about her step-father being an alcoholic, and making Jane cry, and how he felt bad for her. In this quote, Holden talks about how he feels bad when he meets somebody who he likes, but they don’t have as good suitcases as he does. Out of all of the people that Holden likes, he always is very kind to them. He donates money to the nuns, he tries to comfort Jane, and he switches suitcases with the boy from his old school. Holden always want to be nice to people less fortunate them him, and he hates it when the few good people that he likes aren’t fortunate enough to have as good suitcases as him.
Hi Stefan, I agree with you! I don't think Holden is phony at all. He just has his own beliefs about things which is sort of lost. When he likes thinks, he really shows that he likes it. That's what I like about Holden the most. He is true to himself, and he knows how to express his feelings when he likes something.
Delete"I took their check off them, but they wouldn't let me pay it. The one with the glasses made me give it back to her."
ReplyDelete-Chap. 15 page# 145
This quote stands out me because I would never ever expect that Holden could be so generous especially to the nuns. He always thinks that everyone surround him is a moron, and he is always very selfish about his feelings. Maybe he felt sorry for them for having a cheaper colt than his. Therefore, the fact that he gave them $10 bucks for the collection, and also wanted to pay their check really made me think that Holden is a nice boy after all. He just doesn't know who he really is. Maybe he thought the nuns were nice, and not morons like the people at Pencey even though they are nuns and teachers.
Spelling correction!
ReplyDelete"I took their check off them, but they wouldn't let me pay it. The one with the glasses made me give it back to her."
-Chap. 15 page# 145
This quote stands out to me because I would never ever expect that Holden could be so generous especially to the nuns. He always thinks that everyone surround him is a moron, and he is always very selfish about his feelings. Maybe he felt sorry for them for having a cheaper coat than his. Therefore, the fact that he gave them $10 bucks for the collection, and also wanted to pay their check really made me think that Holden is a nice boy after all. He just doesn't know who he really is. Maybe he thought the nuns were nice, and not morons like the people at Pencey even though they are nuns and teachers.
I agree, it was shocking to see him pay for their meal or at least trying to. Holden has shown a lot of personal growth and progress throughout the book. I think Holden living in the real world, reality has made him become a better person whether he likes it or not.
Delete"Grand. If there's one word I hate, it's grand. It's so phony." -Page 106
ReplyDeleteThis quote was quite different and unique compared to all the others. The quote showed one of the endless things that irritates Holden. He stated that he hates grand because it's a 'phony' word. However, how can you describe a word as phony? Besides the word phony itself, can a word really be determined as 'phony'? In addition, I think he dislikes the word so greatly because it is one of the adjectives that people use to describe Hollywood. When people think of this place, they describe is as a 'grand' place where all the larger-than-life things occur. Since Holden's brother, D.B, is a script-writer in the town, he diminishes the entire town to be 'phony'. Thus, because grand describes Hollywood, I think he dislikes the word greatly and titles it as 'phony'. However, I myself am still blurry on one thing. What is the EXACT definition of phony in Holden's eyes? Why does he always like to curve around it and not state specifics?
I definitely agree with you, I think that Holden is irritated by so many numerous things because it reflects his feelings about how his life is at the moment and how he would like it to be. Also, he's just looking for someone to relate to and somebody who understands him and his complexities.
DeleteI agree with your comment. Holden does bring up D.B. and the way he now hates movies a lot and I think it's significant. Maybe Hollywood is where his hatred of phoniness stems from. I also think you make a great point concerning the way Holden never actually defines phoniness. I think he might not define it because if he thought about it thoroughly, Holden would realize he is being hypocritical since in some ways (i.e. lying, being self-conscious) he is a phony himself.
DeleteLeo Lambert
ReplyDelete"I felt like praying or something, when I was in bed, but I couldn't do it. I can't always pray when I feel like it. In the first place, I'm sort of an atheist. I like Jesus and all, but I don't care too much for most of the other stuff in the Bible." page 99
This quote really stood out to me because religion is something I don't practice or is a major part in my life (just like Holden), but it is still in the world around me and part of society. Like Holden, I am still figuring out what I "believe" in, or who I am. I feel Holden mentions praying right there because thats when he needs hope the most. Maybe he is relying on a higher "force" to take care of him, or put him in the right place. Just like the ducks and mother nature on the previous chapter. This is also showing how Holden contradicts himself yet again. I personally don't blame him, he is just confused and is trying to figure out the real world. In this quote he is getting rid his innocence and lack of awareness to the world around him, because he seems to actually be thinking about this huge topic of life. It makes me ask the question, do you think Holden believes in God or not?
Also, do you think kids should be raised just being taught the religion of their parents, or be able to understand all the religions and be able to choose the one they want?
I totally agree with you that Holden is trying to find hope, so he wants to rely on a greater force. He is lost, and needs something. I think Holden is looking for something, and he says he's an atheist so I don't think he believes in God. Holden wants to believe there's something there that will take care of him, the way the cab driver, Horwitz, likes to think mother nature would take care of the ducks.
Delete"...but Mercutio, he was-it's hard to explain. He was very smart and entertaining and all. The thing is, it drives me crazy if somebody gets killed-especially somebody very smart and entertaining and all-and it's somebody else's fault. Romeo and Juliet, at least it was their fault." pg 111
ReplyDeleteThis quote and the passage where Holden goes on about Romeo and Juliet stood out to me because I think he regards Mercutio's death as similar to Allie's. Sure Mercutio was killed by Tybalt, and Allie was killed by leukemia, but both deaths were caused by someone or something outside their control. In Holden's words, the way they both died was somebody else's fault. Holden also talks about how smart Allie was- he wrote poetry on his baseball glove for example- and also calls Mercutio smart and entertaining. Allie is one of the few people (besides Jane and Phoebe) that Holden describes glowingly and seems to really care about. Holden couldn't care less about phonies and morons or Romeo and Juliet, who brought death upon themselves. It's bright, fun people like Mercutio and Allie who didn't ask for death that Holden loves. Holden cares about Mercutio and still remembers his feelings on reading about his death. This quote reveals how Holden's sadness and confusion about the his brother's death must be even more omnipresent and affect his every decision.
I agree with you a lot! I feel as though he certainly mentions how it was wrong for Mercutio to die, because he was the "real" character in the play "Romeo & Juliet." In addition, I think he certainly relates this to his younger brother's death, and thus feels it to be unfair. I think this is also how he reviews his entire life: in an essence of unfairness.
Delete"I can't always pray when I feel like it. In the first place, I'm sort of an atheist. I like Jesus and all, but I don't care for most of the other stuff in the bible." Page 99
ReplyDeleteI found this quote actually somewhat interesting. I'm also sure that it was coincidence that right after this he met the nuns in the diner. I feel like when Holden needs it, he will look for something comforting in almost anything he can find. I think him trying to pray is the same thing with the ducks, though I think in this particular moment, he might not realize it but though he doesn't feel like praying he wanted too, he wanted to feel like everything will be all right. Him trying to show kindness to a "higher power" than himself for everything to be all right is kind of an attempt to make everything alright. It's just an extra possibility for Holden to himself.
“Goddamn money. It always ends up making you blue as hell.” -pp 113
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because I ended up finding that this was EXTREMELY relatable for two ways. One being that if you didn’t have money you’d obviously bad because you can’t afford much. And Two-- if you had money, there would be greed and that would spoil people. I really understand Holden for saying this. I can DEFINITELY relate because I know that when I have money i practically go out of mind spending things. And when I don’t have money it feels like the end of the world. Another reason this stood out to me because he said it right after donating. I understand that he’d feel bad for giving money out, sometimes I do, but donating it to charity should make him feel good inside not bad.
I definitely agree with you. I thought of it more as how Holden is always throwing money at things like treating others in making friends. I also totally agree with the spending money thing.
Delete^Grace Sperling
DeleteI also really agree with you because money controls our lives and feelings. Without money we cannot afford to buy food, clothes, a home, and other necessities to live. Having money is great, but I know after I spend money I usually regret it. You are also right that giving to charity should make Holden feel good, but maybe he feels like he gives a lot, and doesn't get much in return.
DeleteKatya
"Grand. If theres one word i hat, it's grand. It's so phony." pg. 106
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me the most compared to the rest in the passage.The quote showed one of the many things that annoys Holden. What makes a word phony? What makes anything phony? Holden just says things are phony when he see's someone or something do or say it. I believe that nothings really phony to Holden, its just him wanting to sound real by making everything else phony. He says that he hates the word 'grand' because it SOUNDS phony. Thats like saying "i hate the color gray because it looks phony." Holden never really has anything to back up why he believes something is phony so does he just do it to make himself believe that he's the realest person out there?
"I said I'd enjoyed talking to them a lot, too. I mean it, too."- page 146.
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because I was surprised to hear that Holden enjoyed talking to the nuns. Holden most of the time says nice things to others that he doesn't mean like the time he says "nice to have met you" to the Navy guy that he doesn't mean it. For some reason, Holden really likes these two nuns. I think it's because they actually care about his opinions when they ask what he's reading. They show him that they're interested in knowing by asking and that means a lot to him since nobody really pays attention to him the way these nuns do. He wants people to pay attention to him and listen to what he has to say. What he needs is a listener that he can talk to.
I agree with you but also its the only other thing close enough to a family which he doesnt have. He finds comfort in them and he likes them becuase they actually care about him. Lastly, it one of the only places where there arent actual phonys.
Delete"The goddam movies. They can ruin you. I'm not kidding." (p. 104)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because when I read it, I had a sort of "Aha moment." Before, I wondered why Holden disliked the movies so much. Right before this quote in the book, Holden talks about how he's imagining a situation where he is bleeding all over the place and he shoots the elevator guy, Maurice, and then Jane comes and bandages him up, like in a movie. While in reality, Maurice only punched him in the gut really hard and Holden does not get any sort of revenge and Jane is not there. I think Holden dislikes movies so much because the situations in movies are never real. People see movies and expect there to be happy endings or expect things to work out the way they like, but in reality that doesn't happen. So from this quote I thought that maybe Holden doesn't like movies because they are "phony" because they aren't true stories. Or Holden doesn't like the fact that life doesn't turn out like the movies.
I completely agree with you! This kind of connects to what we were talking about a few weeks ago in class- Holden might also feel this way about the movies because he thinks that his older brother was changed by them.
Delete"You think if they're intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don't give a damn who suitcases are better but they do. They really do. It's one of the reasons why I room with Stradlater. At least his suitcases were as good as mine." (pg. 109)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because for the first time, he, Holden is actually saying something halfway decent about Stradlater, something other than calling him a "dirty bastard" or phony or moron. I think that he maybe manages to pop something nice out because something actually respects and compliments him. When he gets good feedback, he gives good feedback and vice versa with bad feedback. When he talks about Stradlater's suitcases being as good as his, is he feeling good about at least one thing that he likes about his personal belongings? Is this something so important to these kids because it reflects off their personal ranking? The best suitcase means you're rich or that you have good parents, social statues, etc.? For such a small, seemingly insignificant thing as a suitcase, for someone to copy him, it must mean quite a lot. And for once, it actually seems to make Holden feel proud. I am also surprised that shared a small bit of inside voice to his relationship with Stradlater, other then negative things. It shows that he does care and that he does like Stradlater if he's willing to give a compliment, something that happens once every few years if not at all, Holden normally never sees anything but bad stuff about people and their personality and I think he may be changing just a bit, all because of something that might really matter. It is probably only a temporary change of feeling towards his expression of others but it means he's getting somewhere with his problems. From what I can tell from this experience, praise and respect is good for him, just not enough to give him a big head.
“What I did, I started talking, sort of out loud to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed” -Pg 98
ReplyDeleteThis line really stood out o me because this shows a really vulnerable side of Holden. We see him really in depression. We’ve seen this before but he’s actually saying that he’s depressed. He’s also trying to talk to one other person who he can can talk to. This is also a sweet moment where we see HOlden care for someone other than Jane and Phoebe. This is also a moment where he’s not judging people or calling someone a moron, which goes into him being a genuine person and narrator. This line alone shows his pain and sufferning wich makes me ask: Did Allie’s death have a big impact into how Holden acts?
I agree, I see this as a big step for Holden because he's actually showing some emotion and for once not judging everyone, he's actually showing care for something.
Delete“She was certainly nice”
ReplyDeleteI choose this quote because while I was reading the book I noticed a pattern with the people Holden likes and dislikes. I found it shocking that he liked the nuns. But at the same time they weren’t phonies. They show Holden a significant amount of attention that was genuine. I think Holden caught on to it. Since Holden left Pencey no one showed him any attention or positive interest. The nuns were the first to sit down and talk to him and not judge him. I think his donation was a way of saying thank you for your time. I also think he couldn’t believe it when they didn’t want him to pay for their meal. I think Holden’s encounter with the nuns have shown him that they are nice people out there and make the most out of the experience on his own in New York.
Katya Bakal-Schlomann
ReplyDelete"I used to think she was quite intelligent, in my stupidity...It took me years to find out in Sally's case...I told her to meet me under the clock."
These lines stood out to me because it is another example of Holden's loneliness. Holden thinks that Sally is a phony, yet he makes plans to hang out with her later. I think he hangs out with many phonies to compare himself to them, and reassure himself that he is not a phony. He even makes up excuses to hang out with phonies. His excuse to hang out with Sally was that he has known her for years. It's nice to get in touch with an old friend, but if you don't like them than why should you? In Holden's case it is probably because he just wanted someone to pass the time with and get rid of his loneliness. Holden is desperate for a friend but he doesn't like most people, so he'll just hang out with anyone, even if he thinks they're the phoniest person in the world. He even said in the previous chapters he wanted to have a chat with Ernie after criticizing him and calling him a moron. Holden should surround himself with people he does like, or at least make an effort to like people; that would make him less lonely.
I agree. He is very two-faced about phony people. One minute he is saying how much he dislikes a person because of their phoniness and the next minute he makes excuses for them being phony. I agree that he should start surrounding himself with people he actually cares for, but that might be hard to do because he is so judgmental.
Delete"I'm not saying i blame Catholics. I don't. I'd be the same way, probably, if I was a Catholic. It's just like those suitcases I was telling you about, in a way." pg 113
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me in Chapter 15 because I agree with Holden very much. He makes a claim that a Catholic knowing who they're talking to is Catholic makes them kind of "enjoy the conversation more" or it "makes it better" and he compares that to the story he told about his roommate who tried to make people think that Holden's luggage (which was nicer than his) was his own. The comparison he makes is that knowing your roommates luggage is just as good as yours is connected with knowing your a Catholic and so is your friend. I think this represents a larger topic of having something in common with someone and having a friend, which Holden does not have in his life.
I think it's deeper than just having a friend with whom you share common interests and religions. I personally think religion is more about being a part of a community which acts kind of like a safety net. You need that extra protection so you can be helped. I'm not saying it's wrong to not have a religion, it's your life and you are free to believe in what you want regardless of the thoughts of others. It's just that you have this sort of connection with someone that you can't explain. I'm Jewish and in my religion, many of us have come to the agreement that having Jewish friends is important. It's hard to go through life without being able to discuss problems that you are currently facing with other people going through the same things. Such as a Bat/Bar/B'Nei Mitzvah, First Communion, Catechaism, ect. Religion has modernized with time as the public viewpoint on it has changed. One of my best friends, who is also Jewish, is now an atheist, but nontheless she likes the togetherness and culture of Judiasm. It's not so specific as having a friend who is the same religion as you, it's more of knowing that you have a special bond with the members of your religion.
DeleteIn what way has what Holden gone through similar to anything you have gone through?
ReplyDeleteHolden has been lonely and has been trying to figure out who he is as a person. Personally I cant relate because I have felt like Holden in which I sometimes seem to blame others when they have nothing to do with the problem. Holden turns to the nuns for comfort just like I turn to my church and music for comfort. There is always that one thing that can help you clear you mind and feel better about yourself.
"What I did, I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed. I keep telling him to go home and get his bike and meet me in front of Bobby Fallon's house." (pg. 98)
ReplyDeleteThis line popped out to me because it shows how close he was to Allie and how much he misses old times with him. It makes me wonder if Allie's death caused Holden to not do well in school because Holden was so distraught from his death. If so, it shows that Holden is normal, or at least reacts normally to hardships because that is a normal way to act after a family member's death. Even though he doesn't say the words "I miss Allie," you can tell that he does. He opens up about missing his brother without making it obvious. This is the first time where I've noticed him being vulnerable.
I used a similar quote and agree with what you have to say about it. I agree with the point that it shows how close their relationship was bet I also think it shows how lonely he is.
DeleteQuote: "Boy, I felt miserable. I felt so depressed, you can't imagine. What I did, I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed. I keep telling him to go home and get his bike and meet me in front of Bobby Fallon's house. Bobby Fallon used to live quite near us in Maine. […] We thought we could shoot something without BB guns. Anyway, Allie heard us talking about it, and he wanted to go, and I wouldn't let him. I told him he was a child. So once in a while now, when I get very depressed, I keep saying to him, "Okay. Go home and get your bike and meet me in front of Bobby's house. Hurry up." […] I keep thinking about it, anyway, when I get very depressed." (pgs. #98-99)
ReplyDeleteThis quote strikes me because it clearly proposes the theory that the death of Allie, Holden's younger brother, might have driven Holden partially insane. This isn't saying that Holden is a danger to society or will have to be put in a strait jacket for the rest of his life, it's just saying that Holden still has a part of him that believes his brother is still alive. He knows Allie is dead but the regret he feels from that day he and Bobby wouldn't take Allie with them has created an internal void. He isn't ready to entirely let go of his brother yet. Holden is a tough egg to crack and an har-boiled egg when it comes to letting people into his life in a positive light. However he becomes a cracked egg when it comes to his sibings. It's almost as if he wants to save them from the cruelty of the outside world, he wants them to keep their innocence. Holden never truely grew up because he never spent much time with his parents because they always shipped him of the boarding schools. He never grew up because he was never punished, it seems as though Holden was almost "the forgotten child". I'm sure his parents must love him and only want the best for him, but due to the fact Holden seems to have some serious unresolved issues, they are not raising their son right. Holden's mother hasn't been the same since Allie died and his father doesn't seem to bond very much with his son. Holden is acting out because he needs a direction, affection, protection, and to fufill expectations.
" What I felt like, though, was comitting suicide. I felt like jumping out the window. I probably would've done it, too, if I'd been sure somebody'd cover me up as soon as landed. I didn't want a bunch of stupid rubbernecks looking at me when I was gory"
ReplyDeleteI think that that is such and odd thing to say. Holden doesn't really care about dying but that some people would see his dead bosy, I find that to be kind of crazy and very immature to his part. It makes me wonder if he has any mental disability or something becaue that is something very odd to say. I think he was probably drunk and kind of was out of his right mindset. In the world, when people feel lonely or out if place there first solution is killing themselves but they don't have any idea how much that affects other peoplr. However Holden, is very odd he said that killing himself was not much of an impact ut only the fact that no onw was gonna cover him. I still cant get over the fact he said that. I feel like he doesn't realy think before he speaks, but maybe as time progresses he will.
Matthew Baldwin
ReplyDelete"committing suicide. I felt like jumping out the window."
This quote shows that Holden is depressed and has a lot of thing wrong in his life. it shows that he doesn't care if he dies because he has nothing to live for. He lies to himself and his parents because he doesn't want to be a failure to them, like he thinks he his. he got kicked out of 3 boarding schools, and he said the at his mom would be so mad if she found out about getting kicked out again. i think this quote i shocking because this is another big moment that we can see the really messed up mind of Holden. It is just another crack into the many layers of lies that he has told over the years. if he stops lying he will probably think of himself of a better person and would be a failure if he actually admitted that he cares about things. lastly this quote shows fully that he is a phony and a hypocrite and that he really doesn't think off himself as an important person and would rather be dead.
“I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed.” (98)
ReplyDeleteHolden truly is as depressed as he can get. The only escape from his depression is to pretend he's talking to his deceased brother. Although he hasn't had a true conversation with his brother for a long time he finds comfort in having a fake one with him. I think this is about the worst it can get and Holden is in a terrible place. He is so desperate for someone to talk to that he has to stoop to the level of pretending to talk to someone he knows is dead.
I don't believe Holden is desperate to talk to someone. I honestly believe that the people he would connect with aren't around in his life anymore like his brothers, Phoebe, and Jane. I sort of just think he's depressed for the fact that almost everyone he has been close to has drifted a part, even if Phoebe hasn't yet. Deep down though it seems like he knows someday she won't be there either maybe not physically, but mentally. Which is why he's cherishing the moments he does have with her while she's young and innocent.
Delete"The goddam movies. They can ruin you. I'm not kidding." (End of chapter 14)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it goes to show how movies influence us and what image they set in our minds. I believe his message is that films try to make us believe that the impossible can be possible when it's very unlikely. In reality Holden knows Jane isn't going to come over and bandage his guts and hold a cigarette in her hand for him. It's a fantasy that he wishes could someday be true. People can relate to this because many movies grasp one's attention and make them sort of play with their imagination into viewing the world into a more fantasy like environment through their thoughts. Sometimes, like Holden the scene one plays can effect one differently through their emotions making one depressed or happy; in this case Holden is depressed. Which is why he recalls that movies can ruin you for the way they make you feel.
“They let me give them 10 bucks as contribution. They kept asking me if I was sure I could afford it and all. I told them I had a quite a bit of money with me, but they didn’t seem to believe me” (110).
ReplyDeleteWhy would the nuns not believe that Holden was carrying a lot of money? The nuns didn’t believe Holden because Holden is a sixteen year old who is by himself in the city. Also Holden has barely had any sleep in the last day, so he may not look the best. It also seems like Holden didn’t understand why the nuns didn’t believe him. This is because Holden isn’t self aware. Holden doesn’t realize what he looks like when he is talking to other people. An example of Holden not being self aware would be when Holden thought he was acting “cool” while talking to the women in the Lavender Lounge. When in fact the women thought he was being goofy. It may cause problems for Holden later in the book if he doesn’t realize how other people actually view him.
I agree with you when you say "Holden doesn’t realize what he looks like when he is talking to other people," then you give an accurate example. I think Holden thinking he was "suave," relates to people. People are always trying to act "cool" to make themselves appear better than others. This is essentially being "phony." Is Holden being phony when he is talking to the women at the bar, or is that just his self perception? I think this is how he sees himself, as cool. He has shown this throughout the book, like when he's talking to the woman on the train.
Delete"Boy, I felt miserable. I felt so depressed, you can't imagine. What I did, I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed."
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it shows how lonely and sad Holden really is. This is one of the first times that he's actually admitted that he's sad and lonely- we've really only been able to assume that he was, up until this point. I think that Holden is changing a lot over the course of the book- he's getting less and less phony, even though he's wanted us to believe he was never phony. Holden is starting to be more open and accurate about his feelings and experiences, and that was a really important thing for him to do- how can he keep saying that he hates phonies, when he is one too? Based on the changes that Holden has already gone through so far in The Catcher in the Rye, I predict that he will become even more open and honest with both the readers and himself.
Line: "I pictured myself coming out of the goddamn bathroom, dressed and all, with my automatic in my pocket, and staggering around a little bit." (p. 104)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because I think he is being phony. He is fantasizing out being in a movie scene, this is ironic because he is always talking about how he hates the movies. This shows Holden being hypocritical. This raises the question, why is the significant? Why would J.D. Salinger include this in the book? I believe Holden might be thinking about this because he is so lonely and he wants to think about something pleasant and interesting to distract him. This relates to people in the world, why is it so hard to distract yourself from thinking about things that are negative? I think this is because people are so worried about the bad that they don't have a chance to focus on other things, good things, like Holden.
"What I did, I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed."
ReplyDeleteHere is another quote that shows Holden's sadnes. Holden is actually telling us how depressed he is. Instead of showing it and hinting at it. He's now saying to us "I'm very depressed." He's not pretending he can handle this pain anymore. And he uses his imaginary beloved brother as a way to keep his spirits up. Powerful stuff. Holden really doesn't seem to manage without his brother.
"They get pretty anoying sometimes. i mean i felt much sorrier when old Mercutio got killed then when Romeo and juliet did." (page111)
ReplyDeleteI like this quote because it shows how Holden hates stario types and things he cant have. for instance i think Holden is jelouse of Romeo and Juliet's love but he would never admit to saying he wishes he had a clishe. What confuses me about Holden is he thinks by saying he does not want something or hates curtain people he expects them to want to give him what he needs witch is attention. Why people feel they need attention is beound me, I sapose it is because when you are put into a world full of myistery attention is the only thing that makes you feel like you are actually on the right track. Holden gives off this vibe of I understand things but all that shows us is that he is lost.
"I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows how depressed Holden is. He's depressed because his brother was one of the few people who Holden actually likes and he had a special relationship with Allie. Him talking to his brother shows hows he still cares and thinks about him and also him keeping his mitt with all of the poetry on it. He misses his brother and i think he him talking to him is the only way Holden thinks he can be close to Allie and that makes him depressed because no matter how much he talks to Allie, he's still dead.
I totally agree with you. I personally think Holden just needs someone like Allie to keep him company and listen to him. It was stressed in the last three chapters how depressed he was. He seems confused about his life.
Delete"It isn't important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because J realized the type of person Holden is. Holden is a person who would judge books by its cover. Something so simple can make him HATE somebody, which proves he is quick to judge. He felt this way because of his story with Dick Slagle. He shared a room with him and Dick pretended that Holden's suitcases were his. Holden wasn't exactly mad about it and he actually enjoyed being with Dick. This makes me wonder if Holden had a life story that he never shared that makes him act the way he does. These are just suitcases, but is there something more to it?
I liked the line you picked, because you made something so small and ordinary, like a suitcase, so big and questionable. I thought the suitcases were just a sign of being trapped, like how a suicase shuts. He's shut from the outside world, perhaps? Making him an outcast, a loner even?
Delete"The goddamn movies. They can ruin you. I'm not kidding."
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me the most because of the story behind it. Holden was describing a dream he had of him splattered in blood and shooting Maurice, while Jane helped him get better, holding his cigarrette. It's very unique how he encorperated real-life situations into his own story. It's true, movies do influence gory, unusual behaviors. Especially horror movies, they can mess people's mind's up. I related myself to Holden because after I watch a movie I do the same thing. I pictured myself drowning in an ocean with Taylor Lautner as Jack after my first time watching Titanic. It sounds funny, but that's the first thing that popped into my head after reading that line. It's ridiculous, I know, but so is Holden's daydream. Do you think he was delierious, or maybe fell asleep when he thought of this? The sun was just rising and he's acting like he's tired, when we all know he has to be exhausted. I think he was dreaming because who thinks of such unrealistic, dramatic moments wide awake? That sounded like a dream to me, so I think he was asleep. This also made me think, why'd he stay up so late? He's a teenager, roaming the city all day, avoiding home. Isn't this overwhelming for him Too much all in one day? He should be sleeping like a baby! Maybe he was asleep for the whole thing with Sunny, maybe he dreamed of everything. I don't know, just wondering why'd this all happen so quickly.