Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward.
Friday, October 5, 2012
G-Band: Catcher Chapters 5-7 (pp. 35-53)
Post your reader responses here: Choose a line from the text and explain why it stands out to you. Does this line shock you, confuse you, or seem important in some way? Does it make you ask a question? Can you make a connection to your life or another text? What is this line saying about Holden, and then what is this line saying about people, or the world, in general?
Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward.
Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward.
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"Boy, I did feel rotten. I felt so damn lonesome."-pg. 48
ReplyDeleteI think this quote was significant because Holden had many previous opportunities to be around people that make him happy. For example, in Chapter 4, Holden's roommate, Stradlater, is going on a date with a girl named, Jane Gallagher. Holden was affiliated with Jane before, and was very fond of her. When the conversation of Jane came about, Holden was very agitated and was contemplating whether or not to go and visit her in the annex. It almost seemed that Holden wanted to be alone. He had the perfect opportunity to go see Jane, but he chose not to and in this quote I think he is regretting his decision and is swallowing his pride, finally realizing that he doesn't want to be alone.
Your use of vocabulary really helped to elaborate your point. When you said how he is "finally realizing that he doesn't want to be alone," the word "finally" stood out to me a lot! Throughout the book so far he is been so distant from people not wanting to get involved in anything. He was choosing to be alone, which in turn, made him feel "rotten" and "lonesome." The fact that he is finally realizing that that is something he doesn't want, shows a sign of hope that he will get and do better.
Delete"Almost every time someone gives me a present, it ends up making me sad." (Page 52)
ReplyDeleteThis line is significant because Holden has a very unique personality. This quote shows how different he is more from other people. Most people, love when they get gifts but Holden doesn't very much like it. Why would presents particularly make Holden sad? I feel as if Holden had much of a "crummy" childhood since his parents barely spent time with him. Maybe, every time his parents didn't spend time with him, they'd buy him a present to "make up for not being there".
This quote stood out to me too. I agree with you that it shows Holden's unique attitude towards things and how he doesn't find joy in what would make many others happy (like getting presents). I think it's really interesting to ask WHY presents would make Holden sad. Maybe it's because he feels guilty about getting kicked out of so many schools, even though he acts like he doesn't care.
DeletePage 39 - Allie's death.
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because it showed some of the cause for the trauma that Holden faces, and one of the reasons he acts the way he does. When you start reading this book, it seems like Holden is just a crazy kid who acts like a psycho. This scene shows one of the reasons he acts the way he does, and made me feel kind of bad for Holden. He doesn't have many people to talk to, and I'm sure that this experience of his brothers death traumatized him, yet he doesn't have anyone to talk to that he feels he trusts. Also, just like the reader when you first read this book, his peers probably see him as a weird and crazy kid, but they don't know the reason behind it.
This is a really great analysis on the passage. I had the same thoughts on exactly what you said. This page sheds some light on why Holden is a complex and misunderstood person. Maybe, he's not necessarily misunderstood, but bitter and upset over Allie's death. I think Allie's death is the main reason he puts up so many barriers because he is really just this soft vulnerable person when thoughts are left unguarded. Although, I feel that if Holden doesn't talk to someone, he could end up staying lonely and miserable for the rest of his life.
DeletePAMELA YIADOM
ReplyDeleteAfter the Fight-Page: 48
The line that stands out to me is " I felt so lonesome, all of a sudden. I almost wished I was dead".This line seems so significant to me because it's very relate able. And it's relate able to the world and people in general because every body has had that same moment Holden had at that point. That same feeling, looking out the window and feeling so depressed. And kind of hating every thing; wishing you were dead, because you could't stand that feeling. I can imagine, the same feeling Holden was having at that point, that feeling of anger but sadness. Feeling rotten and depressed. I have felt the same way, so it made me understand Holden better, and why he's is like that, or why he's always described as angry. I understand him now.
I agree with your point that this is a very relatable moment for the reader but i disagree with your final statement. I think it's impossible to understand Holden, because he doesn't quite understand himself. At the very end of chapter seven, as Holden is leaving, he starts to cry. He says he doesn't know why. Subconsciously he acts all these ways for reasons, and those reasons may be clearer to us than to him, but his conscious, which ignores these reasons is also a part of him, and we can't understand it because it has no explanation. If there was an explanation, Holden would have to tell us himself, and he does not know it.
DeleteThere was a scene in which Holden and his roommate fought about Jane. I feel like I have felt like Holden in this scene. Not particularly about a girl, but I've had the same feeling. I have fought with a friend about what's important to me, when he didn't really care about it. Knowing that Holden has felt this way makes him more realistic. It shows me that he doesn't just care about himself, like he makes himself out to be. He actually cares about someone, which makes him this very real character. It's interesting that he would show this "weakness" also in his book. It almost proves that while he's a liar, and some stuff may be fiction in this book, we could be closer to the truth than we may think.
ReplyDelete" I sat there for about half an hour after he left. I mean I just sat in my chair, not doing anything. I kept thinking about Jane, and about Stradlater having a date with her and all. It made me so nervous I nearly went crazy." (page 34)
ReplyDeleteThis particular passage stood out to me because I could relate to how Holden was feeling. I wasn't in that exact situation, but I am also a very anxious and jealous person and I over think everything. I understand what Holden was experiencing when he just sat in a chair and couldn't do anything but just sit there and think of hypothetical situations; because I have done that so many times. I also think that this scene shows a lot about Holden. It reveals that he actually has extremely deep feelings for others and is a very sensitive guy, though he may seem cynical and arrogant at first. I believe that although he sometimes may act younger than his age, Holden is actually very mature and complex in some aspects.
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." pg. 44
ReplyDeleteI felt that this line was signifacent because it really shows once again how Holden kind of thinks everyone is out to get him. This is a very resentful line, but beneath is all this hidden anxiety about what people think of him and this constant insecurity as well. It's almost as if Holden is reassuring himself that everyone is a moron so he doesn't have to actually like people, because then he would be forced to open up to them. I also think Holden is saying something about the world as well. I think he's saying that people are afraid to realize the truth about themselves, and that we sometimes refuse to acknowledge who we are. Sometimes we even trick ourselves into being an entirely different person, and Holden discusses that in this line.
Really great analysis, Francesca! I agree with you completely. Holden is a very complex character, and you described him really well. It's also really interesting because at first I didn't think of it as deeply. Great job!
Delete"but it wasnt just that he was the most intelligent member in the family. He was also the nicest, in lots of ways." pg. 38
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because of alot of reasons. When we first started reading the book we saw Holden as a disrespectful boy that didnt have much feelings. However, as you keep reading you can see that he develops strong feelings about some other characters. This part of the book talks about his brothers Allies death. It shows us that Holden really admired his brother and he really misses him. I also agree that this moment traumitized him. He explained how he would continue to see Allie. I can relate to this part of the story because someone very close to be died at a young age because of cancer. I was shocked and i really didnt understand. "they were going to have me phychoanalyzed and all..." This was like an essential moment in Holdens life and he learned alot from it.
I agree with this. Holden changes allot through out the book. At first he comes off as disrecptful as you stated and then when he talks about Allie, he turns into a nice character because he is talking about someone close to him. I agree that he learned a lot from it because I think it taught him to apprecate the people that around him and truly care for him. Sorry for you loss.
DeleteI agree with the fact that Allie has had an impact on Holden’s life. Holden has a lot of respect for him because he was really intelligent and sincere. I think another reason why he admires his brother is because Allie didn’t fit the description of the redhead stereotype, making him seem “real” instead of phony. Holden mentions how Allie never got mad even though he had red hair, which he found surprising since he thought people with red hair usually got mad easily.
DeleteDo I, the reader, like Holden as a character?
ReplyDeleteI am not sure. Right now I don't think I know him well enough, but I think that is intentional. Your in his head, and you can see his thoughts, but I still don't feel as though I know our understand him. I think the this was the authors intension. Holden is meant to be a bit of mystery. His past and future are barely talked about so the reader only knows him in the present. In the present, he is a bit odd and not always the nicest person, but the way he cares so much about Jane. How much he remembers and know her and feels for her. He could't stop thinking about how she lined up all hier kings in the back row. That showed how sincere and thoughtful he was. This other side of him also showed when he was writing that thing about his brother. WOW. That blew mew away. I wasn't expecting it at all! Those moments stood out to me because they took me by surprise. They shoulder a part of Holden that I really understood and respected. Its amazing how quickly your image of a character can change. I think, on the surface Holden a bit of a jerk, but inside he is a really sweet understandable person.
I definitely agree with you, Tamar. Holden is a unreliable narrator, and he said it himself he lies very well. How can we, as readers, like someone so untrustworthy and downright confusing? Maybe he is sweet after digging deep down inside him, but I can't wait to read more
DeletePassage:Allie's death
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because we get to see a different part of Holden. Also we begin to see the reasons why he acts like he doesn't care. It's such an important part because we understand Holden more and instead of judging him we feel for him. Holden is just really lonely and Allie was the only one he felt he could talk to and be close to. I don't believe Holden would act this way if Allie was still around. I believe Allie dying had a huge impact on the way he is now and the way he will be for a while. He can't seem to let Allie go and that's really going to affect his life.
I completely agree with you, but I also think that Allie is one of the main reasons why Holden is so resentful. But when he talks about Allie, he becomes very sensitive and sweet. He's a completely different person, and he's very spiteful towards pretty much everyone in the book except for Jane and Allie. Everyone else is just phony or out to get him.
Delete" My hand still hurts me once in a while, when it rains and all, and I can't make a real fist any more-not a tight one, I mean but outside of that I don't care much. I mean I'm not going to be a surgeon or a violinist or anything anyway." Chapter 5
ReplyDeleteIn this quote I found Holden's self confidence to be pretty low. You expect a young man like him who comes from a respected and intelligent family to have at least some standards for himself. Given that his older brother works in Hollywood and is a famous writer you expect Holden to be somewhat the same. He should at least carve his own path at this point in his life, but he turns out to have an unusual view point on life. He thinks his life is lousy and he has nothing to life for, but he has a lot of potential that he doesn't see in himself.
Naz Deryaoglu
"He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent. He was terrifically intelligent. His teachers were always writing letters to my mother, telling her what a pleaseure it is having a boy like Allie in their class. " (pg.49) These lines made me wonder a few things about holden. Could Holden have been jealous of his younger brother, Allie. Allie had been extremely intelligent had aced school, while Holden was flunking out of Pencey Prep. Maybe he even thought that his parents loved Allie more because he was simply a brighter person. This could be the reason why he is so negative and lonely because he feels like his parents don'y support him and hes all alone against the whole wide world.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you're saying about Holden being jealous of Allie. I think that even though he writes about how much he loved him and how great he was and how much he misses him, he also is even more sad and hard on himself because he wishes he could be like his brother
DeleteI disagree with what you're saying, because Holden glorifies Allie as (pg 38) "terrifically intelligent...he was the nicest...he never got mad at anybody...you'd have liked him". Holden shows his love for his brother, and one reason most likely to his negative state of mind is caused by his brother being gone.
Delete" When I was all set to go, when I had my bags and all, I stood for a while next to the stairs and took a last look down the goddam corridor. I was sort of crying. I don't know why...then I yelled at the top of my goddam voice, 'Sleep tight, ya morons!"' Page 52.
ReplyDeleteI think that this quote is significant because it shows that Holden is not such a tough guy that he would like to be and it shows how he likes to cover up his feelings. The fact that Holden is crying over leaving Pencey proves he did not hate Pencey. I think that Holden just has a hard time confronting his true emotions and he likes to cover up any sign of weakness by acting like nothing matters to him or by acting tough. Holden is trying to be something that he is not and I think a lot of people in the world do this too. Everybody at some point in there life likes to pretend that nothing can hurt them but that's not true and I think these people can relate to Holden. I think that Holden is actually just a nice kid that is just struggling with finding his true identity. More simply said he's just going through what every teenager goes through, which is finding out who they really are and what they really believe in.
I think this is a really great quote because it shows how Holden covers up. You did a good job of analyzing it.
Delete"For once in my stupid life, I was really glad to see him. He took my mind off the other stuff." (pg. 35)
ReplyDeleteThis made me think about why he would call his life stupid. It's kind of like he's almost doubting himself and who he is. Also, when he talks about the failures and bad stuff in his life, it seems he's almost feeling remorse for himself. I guess this kind of has to do with being a teenager, figuring out who you're going to be but also trying to learn from the past. Also, I wondered what "other stuff" he was talking about. If it was also about the other bad stuff in his life or if maybe it was something good or bad that he just didn't want to think about, the guy Ackley, who he is talking about is explained as a friend but their friendship involves a lot of goofing off and fighting. If Ackley is a friend, why wouldn't Holden want to / like seeing him? Holden doesn't seem to have a strong social life.
Good inference's and analyses. I agree with how you question Holden's social life and how you think he feels remorse for himself. To back up your idea of Holden having a weak social life I think some good evidence for this is how Holden doesn't visit Jane when he has a chance. This shows that Holden is kind of a loner. He likes to keep to himself.
DeleteI agree on how you relate Holden's teenage problems, to our problems today. I really like how you made the connection on how Holden doesnt seem to have a strong social life and he's often harsh on himself and tend to shut himself out from others.
DeleteLeo Lambert
ReplyDelete"I just didn't want to hang around any more. It made me too sad and lonesome." page 51
This is right after Holden and his roommate fought about Jane and then goes into Ackly's room and gets annoyed with him. Lately Holden has been going through hard times, like remembering about his brother, and getting his heartbroken by his roommate. Holden also say's he is lonely because i think he thinks all of the kids he meets are phonies. Holden can't have a real friend because he thinks everyone is too fake. Although leaving wont help Holden with his problems, if he leaves he will just be carrying his problems with him. he has to confront his problems and talk to his roommate about his feelings about Jane or else he will never know. I think he also needs to talks to someone about his little brother too. He can't run away from his problems and expect them to resolve by them self. He has to be proactive. All Holden needs is a friend, or someone to talk to that he can trust, or else he will just keep on putting more and more weight on his shoulders until he just falls from the pressure.
Passage: The fight between Stradlater and Holden (44-45)
ReplyDeleteThis section stood out to me because it made me realize more about Holden. It made me realize that he cares about things and about certain people, but he also pushes a person's limits and goes overboard, yet he knows that he's doing this. He does it on purpose because he knows that, in the moment, he has a sense of control over that person. Also, even after the fight, he is still pushing the limits, but he walks away from the problem. Thats his way of handling the issue. Holden is also just being a human/teenager. As a teenager, we find ways to get away from certain things or ways to deal with things we may not want to deal with. So walking away from his problems is just his way, but it isn't necessarily a good way.
"...but he wouldn't believe me. People never believe you."
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it closely relates to a point made in our class discussion on adolescence. The exact point was teenagers are treated like children, and expected to act like adults. To delve into each word, there are two important decisions obviously made by Salinger in the writing of this sentence. First off, Holden says the bus driver "wouldn't" believe him. Not that he didn't or couldn't, but wouldn't. He refused to, it was a conscious choice. The next point, Holden finishes his statement with "you". We know from the start of the book that he is aware of the presence of the audience, and here he relates himself to us. It makes me wonder if maybe Holden understands that all teenagers go through some of the same difficulties, this being one of them. I think it also shows that in our society, we've become so accustomed to "phonies" that we tend to refuse to believe anyone.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI really agree. Since the beginning of the book Holden knows that the readers are there. Also it goes back to what we mentioned in class about how he wouldn't waste his time telling us lies and that he's telling us what he went through in order for us to relate to him.
DeleteIn chapter 5, on page 38, it starts off with, "My brother Allie..." "...He's dead now. He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine, on July 18, 1946. You'd have liked him." So far, I have been reading with the perspective that he is writing to a blank audience. This is why that quote is so significant. He said, "YOU'D have liked him." This made me wonder who "you" is. If he isn't talking to nobody than who is he writing too? Is he talking to a specific person who he knows? Is he writing to someone that he made up? This quote was also very significant because he starts off with that and how he's going to write about Allie's baseball mitt, and then he goes into all this detail about how Allie was such a good person and how he reacted when he died. Then he ends with "Anyway, that's what I wrote Stradlater's composition about. Old Allie's baseball mitt. He did something similar when explaining his dorm. I wonder if he does this to go deeper into the true meaning of something.Maybe it's just a coincidence and it's just a writing style. Overall, Allie meant a lot to him.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you, I was thinking the same thing while i read this part. He talks in this perspective a couple times earlier in the book too, and it really makes you wonder who he's writing this to.
Delete"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Chapter 6
ReplyDeleteThis is when Holden gets into a fight with Stradlater. Even though Stradlater isn't stupid, he still wanted Holden to write an essay for him so he could go out with a girl Holden really likes. Holden writes about the wrong topic, and starts to smoke in the dorm. Stradlater starts asking for an explanation, and soon starts to fight Holden. Even while Holden is getting punched, he is insulting Stradlater.
An interpretation of this could be that you are what you don't like to be called. In this case, Holden tells Stradlater that he is a moron and Stradlater doesn't like it.Another interpretation could be that Holden is projecting his own hostility by preferring to believe that Stradlater is a moron.
“Do you happen to have any cigarettes, by any chance?-Say no or I’ll drop dead.” –pg:48
ReplyDeleteThis sentence stood out to me because it can be interpreted in a couple different ways. One way could be that Holden contradicts himself a a lot because he says “say no.” He wants the cigarettes but then again he doesn't want them. Another way this could be interpreted is when he says “or I’ll drop dead.” This could be interpreted is that he’s mindful of his health and how he is harming himself. He’s telling Ackley that if he had the cigarettes it would eventually catch up to him and cause him to die. This can also mean that if Ackley says no then he will figuratively drop dead. This is why this stood out to me.
"I’d only been in about two fights in my life, and I lost both of them. I'm not too tough. I'm a pacifist, if you want to know the truth." Pg. 45-46
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it shows how unreliable Holden is as a narrator. His words contradict his actions. He says that he doesn’t approve of violence but he is constantly getting into fights, sometimes for no specific reason. Right before saying that he is pacifist, he gets into a fight with Stradlater about Jane. When he mentions that he has only been in two fights in his life, it makes me wonder whether those two arguments were the ones he had with Stradlater or if there were many more fights that he’d been involved in but didn’t want to tell us. By saying that he lost both of those fights, Holden makes it seem like he wants us to be on his side despite having an attitude that doesn’t care about other people and their opinions. It shows us how common it is for people to lie or exaggerate to get sympathy from others.
"I just couldn't hang around there any longer, the way we were on opposite sides of the pole, the way he kept missing the bed whenever he chucked something at it, and his sad old bathrobe with his chest showing, and that grippy smell pf Vicks Nose Drops all over the place." -pg. 8
ReplyDeleteI really liked this line because it really showed his discomfort in the situation in a really poetic way. It also shows how Holden feels that he disapointed professor Spencer, no hes keeping his feelings inside and really telling prof. Spencer about his feeling of disapointment towards him. I also really like the discription of the scenery, like how he talks about the nose drops and his old man chest, its all very poetic in an odd way.
Owen, all true. I love that you brought up the poetic nature of this line. However...next time, please stick to the pages for HW-- p. 35-53! :)
Delete"I told him he thought he could give the time to anybody he felt like. I told him he didn't even care if a girl kept all her kings in the back row or not" Chapter 5
ReplyDeleteI think this quote shows Holden's soft spot. Reading through the book Holden seems to have a soft spot for innocence and child aspects. He shows this with how much her cares about a girl from his childhood. I think that Stradlater being with Jane is defiling the image Holden has of Jane. Holden thinks of Jane as a nice girl who keeps her kings in the back row but with Stradlater coming into the equation Holden feels uncomfortable and nervous. Because he thinks Stradlater is intruding on something that belongs to him: the innocent image of Jane.
"You would've liked him."
ReplyDeleteThis quote from the book showed that Holden was sweet and caring. This showed me another side of Holden. Holden is very opinionated and knows everything and anything about a person wether its bad or good,So when he said that he showed that he can actually be down to earth and care about a person. It also showed that he had a stung bound with his brother.
Selma Dervisevic
Why does Holden look for trouble? I noticed he tries to do this in a few scenarios, for example on page 44 there is the fight between Holden and Stradlater. There is a part of dialogue that reads as follows:
ReplyDelete"Now, shut up, Holden, God damn it-I'm warning ya," he said-I really had him going. "If you don't shut up, I'm gonna slam ya one."
"Get your dirty sinking moron knees off my chest." In this scenario, Strandlater is asking Holden to stop talking, but Holden continues to talk and throw insults at Strandlater. From this, I assume that Holden looks for trouble. But I don't know why he wants trouble. On page 46, he even calls himself a pacifist. I think it might be because he's subconsciously self-destructive. Previously in the chapter, he also describes how he broke all the windows in his garage when his brother, Allie, passed away because of leukemia. Holden claims he didn't know why he broke all the windows, but I believe he gets self-destructive when he's angry. In the situation I mentioned above when he and Strandlater were fighting, he just dug himself deeper into a hole by continuing to talk and insult Strandlater. I'm not sure why Holden is self-destructive, maybe it's because he doesn't like himself, or because he wants to be angry, but I think he is self-destructive and that's why he looks for trouble.
Samantha Ramirez
ReplyDeleteBand B
"I kept thinking about Jane, and about Stradlater having a date with her and all. It made me so nervous I nearly went crazy. I already told you what a sexy bastard Stradlater was." page 34
This line stood out to me most because it was amazing how the author portrays this new feeling of jealously out of Holden. It's not like any other ordinary jealously you'll read out of a novel, it's very different and unique. Tjis line made me stop and really think, what is Holden really going through? It's got some sense of humor and envy mixed inbetween these few choice of words, and it made me also think what's his next step? Is he going to go down there and stop them? Is he going to try and "steal" her? Now he's got to write this report for a guy who's going on a date with a girl he seems to have meaningful history with. Did she mean something special to him? Were they together at some point? The way he acted immediately after Stradlater said his name showed a sense of mixed emotions, and this line clears up all of that to jealousy. This is what only one line did to me, making me wonder all these questions. This is why this line stood out to me so much.
"I was sort of crying, and I don't know why." (p.52) This line stands out to me because during most of his time narrating, Holden seems to know what he thinks of everyone and has obvious opinions. Here, he is crying and he doesn't know why, which is interesting because it doesn't seem like that is his personality. He hated Pencey and most of the people there, so it doesn't seem like he would be sad about leaving. I think that the reason he is crying is not because he is leaving, but because he feels bad about what it will do to his family. He seems to care a lot about the feelings of the people he loves, and so he is worried that his leaving school will hurt and upset his family. He says that his mother gets very hysterical, and he does not want to make things worse for them, so he plans out when he will go home. I think that this line is saying that sometimes people feel emotions that they don't understand but there is usual some meaning or reason for it.
ReplyDelete"Almost every time someone gives me a present, it ends up making me sad." pg 52
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because it showed me some of Holden's feelings and emotions. Most people are happy to get gifts but Holden ends up sad. Why is this? Is it because Holden has a bad childhood? I wonder why Holden would be sad to get a gift, but maybe it's because getting gifts is the only thing good that happened in his childhood.
" I was only thirteen, and they were going to have me psychoanalyzed and all, because i broke all the windows in the garage. I don't blame them. i really don't. I slept in the garage the night he died, and i broke all the goddam windows with my fist, just for the hell of it." (page 39)
ReplyDeleteMaking a connection to this quote to my personal life, i was able to take in a better understanding as to what caused him to have those emotional actions. My dad was sick with Lymphoma cancer for the last year and a half, causing me to be tough on the outside yet,emotionally broken down in the inside. I was more cynical and went to some dark places from having that experience. It changed me and my perspective on every day life heavily. It made more sense to me, on why he was/is so self-destructive about things in his every day life, because of his brother Allie who had an early death.
Gaby-- Thank you for sharing this personal connection to Holden. I think your experience most definitely helps you to empathize with Holden's character.
Delete"'Your right in my light, Holden, for Chrissake,' Stradlater said. 'Ya have to stand right there?'" (p.40)
ReplyDeleteThis line stands out to me because it was almost exactly what Holden said to Ackley, when Ackley was bothering him. That made me think that maybe Holden, was Stradlater's Ackley. Everything Holden says about Ackley is him complaining, yet you can tell that Holden considers him a friend, and is pretty nice to Ackley, considering what Ackley does to him. As you read on, Holden and Ackley seem to have the same relationship as Holden and Stradlater, except Holden is Ackley in this relationship. Stradlater puts up with Holden, but seems to not really like him. He also seems like he feels bad for Holden at some points, but Holden gets on his nerves so much, that wont stop him from beating him up. Just like it doesn’t stop Holden from screaming at Ackley. This also makes you wonder if you’ll see patterns and chains like this later in the book.
"Almost every time someone gives me a present, it ends up making me sad."
ReplyDeletePg 52
Making a personal connection to this line, when I was little, I very rarely received presents or gifts. Not because I was a bad child or anything, but my family really didnt see the need to give me one. Receiving a gift meant that something happen/either good or bad. When I get a gift today, it makes me feel sad and uncomfortable to think that someone cared enough about me that they thought I was special enough to give a gift too.
This is really interesting, Natalie-- perhaps take this connection a step further. What does this tell you about the process of receiving gifts? Why might this make Holden sad, too?
Deletepage 5." I don't feel like giving her my whole life history..."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because Holden mentioned not wanting to tell his life story to us, the readers, in the begining of the story. Then he said it again when he spoke about talking to Morrow's mother. This shows me that Holden perfers to avoid conversation, rather than delve into one. It also shows that Holden prefers to tell people lies, to entertain himself, rather then speak the truth,which he probably sees as boring.This could be why everything annoys Holden and why he doesnt have many friends. An idea that this qoute gave me is that maybe he purposely tried to get kicked out of Pencey, to avoid having to talk and deal with other people. This relates to how the world is today. People pick and chose what they want to do, or what situation they want to be in, rather then make the best of what they have.
"Boy, I did feel rotten. I felt so damn lonesome."-pg. 48
ReplyDeleteThis quote is very significant because it conveys how depressed and alone Holden truly is. In a way I believe that Holden wants to be alone because he has had many opportunities to no be alone but he has taken them for granted and now he is truly feeling alone. I think that Holden in a way has wanted to be alone and wanted to feel bad for himself. I think this quote shows a softer version of Holden because usually Holden acts like he doesn't care about anything but this in one situation were you can see that Holden wants to have someone there for him.
This is Crystal Valentine i actually got it to work but didnt show my name
Delete"He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent." This is on (pg.49, Chapter 7)
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me as I was reading because it almost felt like Holden wanted to redo is childhood and make it similar to how Allie's childhood was. I think Holden wanted those phone calls Allie kept getting from his teachers stating. how great he was and how great he was doing. As I continue to think about it, I ask myself, Is Holden jealous of Allie?