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There's no right answers here. The point is to use this writing to push
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graded out of 5 points. Monday, October 22, 2012
B-BAND: CHAPTERS 21 & 22
Post your responses here! Remember: Choose an actual line
from the text. Use the text to reflect on the world and human nature.
There's no right answers here. The point is to use this writing to push
your thinking forward. Ask questions! Wonder about things. Look closely
at the text. Respond to someone else's response. This blog will be
graded out of 5 points. 
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"When i was really drunk, i started that stupid business with a bullet in their guts. I kept putting my hand under my jacket, on my stomach and all, to keep the blood from dripping all over the place. I didn't want anybody to know that i was even wounded. I was concealing the fact that i was a wounded sonuvabitch."-page 150
ReplyDeleteHolden tends to be a very "inner" person. Many others don't know his inner personality because Holden spends too much time trying to conceal his true identity. That's what i got out of this passage here, Holden is afraid of such critisism for things that he simply does not know how to change, like his personality and how he chooses to live his life the way he feels best. As he is concealing this wound, it represents the fact that Holden wont go to others for assistance even though he may really need it because he is a loner due to the fact that he has yet to find someone to understand him and how he operates. In a global perspective, people prefer to hide who they really are because they do not know what other people will think of them; people in general are very insecure around each other to my understanding and Holden is a good example of that claim.- Connor O'Rourke B band
I agree! I think that's a great point. I think that that is also a reason why he didn't go into the museum of natural history, even after he was talking about how much he loved it. He was afraid of not fitting in there, so he decided not to go inside. I think that also, he just sort of wants to fit in, in the way that he wants to find where he fits in society, but also be happy. He is struggling, because he wants to be a child, but if he acts like a child, he wont fit into society.
DeleteGreat analysis, Connor! The hidden wound in his guts works as a metaphor for his feeling emotionally wounded and hiding it.
Delete“I sat there on D.B.’s desk and read the whole notebook. It didn’t take me long, and I can read that kind of stuff, some kid’s notebook, Phoebe’s or anybody’s, all day and all night long. Kid’s notebook’s kill me,”
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me, because it really relates a lot to what we have been discussing in class, the idea of Holden wanting to still be a kid. A notebook is basically like a book filled with stories from someone’s life, in this case, a child’s life. Holden loves children and wishes that he was one, and I think that he is trying to interact and observe kids, because they “kill him” and making him feel happy. In this case, Holden talks about how he loves reading the diaries of kids, because they give him an opportunity to surround himself with stories from the life of a child, which really comforts him. The main thing that he relies on to keep himself happy is memories of his childhood, so reading about a child’s life must serve a similar purpose.
I agree with you, that Holden wants to be a kid and so he likes to read children's diaries. But, I disagree with you when you say he keeps himself happy through memories of his childhood. In the beginning of the book, he says he didn't have a good childhood, so I think he'd rather like to go back to being a kid to relive being a kid, and have a better experience as a child or that he'd like to stay a kid to avoid the issues that came with becoming a teenager.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Then all of a sudden, she said, "Oh, why did you do it?" She meant why did I get the ax again. It made me sort of sad, the way she said it.
ReplyDelete"Oh God, Phoebe, don't ask me. I'm sick of everybody asking me that," I said. "A million reasons why. It was one of the worst schools I ever went to..." (p. 167)
This line is significant to me because this is the only person Holden really opens up to and talks about his feelings to. After this quote, Holden continues to talk about why he hated Pencey. I think it's interesting how he'll open up to his fourth-grader sister but not to anyone his age, who is mature. He probably doesn't want to talk about himself to more mature people because younger kids have this innocence that makes them pure, in a way, so they listen to what you say, and they take it in, and straightforwardly give their opinion. Holden probably likes this about Phoebe, because talking to anyone else, he'd say they're phony. Maybe Phoebe's innocence makes her real, or not phony, so he likes to talk to her. Since Phoebe hasn't been exposed to the issues of growing up, then her perspective on life isn't tainted like older people's are. This could be true in general, how people's experiences influence how they answer questions, or how they see the world. Kids don't normally have experiences that alter the way the see things, so kids are easier to talk to.
I agree. He opens up about his feeling with Phoebe and he doesn't afraid of what she thinks. He talks to her like they are the same age and she can really understand him. I think this is because of how his parents and everyones ignore him and Phoebe is the only one who listens to him even when he talks nonsense.
DeleteLoved your post. I agree it is easier to open up to kids because most of the time they won't judge you like people your age and they are always truthful when giving opinions. I also think Holden has a problem trusting people and the only person he really trust is his little sister. I can agree and say that I can talk to my little brother and know that he won't judge me and most of the time he doesnt he sits there and listens to me and gives me advice and I would prefer talking to him than someone my age because I know my little brother will always give the truth not just what I want to hear.
Delete"And I like doing what I'm doing right now. Sitting here with you, and talking, and thinking about stuff."-page 171
ReplyDeleteThis line stands out to me because it appears to me that Phoebe understands Holden a lot. She is the only one who Holden can share his thinking freely. She is also the one who knows right away that Holden gets kick out of school. I admire their close brother-sister relationship. It's not an all time thing for brothers and sisters to have a close relationship as Phoebe and Holden do because sometimes, brothers and sisters fight each other and don't get along so well. Holden has been through a lot that maybe no one can possibly understand. He's experimenting where he belongs in society right now and with Phoebe's by his side, he knows who he is. Everyone ignores Holden most of the time like his parents but Phoebe is always there for him and she listens to him even though sometimes he talks nonsense.
I agree with you Ngan, I think their relationship is very sweet. I think Holden really likes Phoebe not only because Phoebe is his sister but because she understands him. I know that when I have a opinion on something I always looking for the person that feels the same way. Hopefully their relationship that is now active again will better Holden as a person.
DeleteI also agree with you on everything you said. The relationship they share is priceless, especially with how distraught Holden is. Why does Holden only confide in his sister though? It seems like because he's stuck in that gap between adulthood and childhood that Phoebe is that thin strand holding on to his childhood. Maybe she's honestly the only person in his world that's not phony, what's keeping him together. Without her, you think he would've done something drastic, like commit suicide? I don't know...just thinking a little too much.
Delete“I getting goddam sick of it”
ReplyDeleteI think this quote really shows that Holden has hit his breaking point. In the beginning of the book Holden was just feel fed out but there was a way out, going to New York and living on his own. When he moved back to New York and realized that it wasn’t so great he decided to get in touch with people he knew that lived there. After that didn’t work Holden finally decided that he didn’t have any more options. I have realized that in the world if people don’t have choices or options it affects them deeply. I believe this is his Holden breaking point because he has ran out of options. I believe in the next few chapters Holden will continue to unfold and something big and bad will happen and change his life forever. Hopefully moving back home and spending time with this family will better him, but right now it’s not looking to good.
I love the way you made a small statement into a big train of thought. When I read this, I didnt think much about it, and now that I am reading yours, i realised that it has alot of meaning behind it!!
DeleteI agree with you completely! I, like Mary, didn't think this line was that significant, but now it seems forbidding. He's finally back in a safe place with his family, but it isn't helping him much. Holden has talked about killing himself before, but I hope that doesn't help him. Even though Holden is a confusing and moody character, reading this book you can't help but like him in some way, and relate to his feelings about being an outcast and a teenager
Delete*correction on reply: it should be "hope that doesn't happen"in the fourth line
Deletepage 159
ReplyDelete"I went around the room, very quite and all, looking at stuff for a while. I felt swell for a change."
At this part, Holden is walking around D.b.'s old room, while Pheobe is asleep in his bed. Memories of his house and family are coming back to Holden. I think that Holden is really happy to be home because he was away for so long, and he has been through so much. Holden says that he felt swell for a change, and that stood out to me, because earlier in the book, he was talking about killing himself and how he would have done it, only if somebody covered up his body once he hit the floor. Holden is now home, and thinks back to when he was younger, and the distinct smell of his home, and he says it made him feel happy for a change. Through the book, Holden doesn't really talk about the way he is feelings, he just shows it through calling people names, but the fact the he admits being home is making him happy stood out to me.
I totally agree with you. This is actually what I also wrote about. I think it's a really good point how you connected how he treated people outside his home.
Delete"That isn't nice. What are you-a child for God's sake?"
ReplyDeletepage 164
This line is said by Holden when Phoebe is telling him the story of her cut. She said it was from this kid who pushed her down the stairs, because she and and another friend put ink all over his windbreaker. Holden is playing the big brother role, telling her that was not nice, but he goes on to question if she's a child. She still is a child, around 11-12 I think... Why would he ask a child if she thinks she is a child? Her response was no, by the way. This line really stood out to me because of how mature they're acting. It's not even a one-side thing, like "I'm older and you're still a baby", he treats Phoebe like she's sort of an adult. He's suprised to hear how immature her actions were. Why does he put Phoebe in that higher expectation category? Holden doesn't seem to remember that she's still discovering life, how young she still is. Just a few seconds ago she was rambling on and on about a movie she saw. She described it very joyful and child-like. It wasn't the voice of a teenager, but of a little girl. So Holden, why put that kind of pressure on your sister?
“I don't know what the hell it is. It isn't cauliflower and it isn't perfume – I don't know what the hell it is – but you always know you're home.” -Page 158
ReplyDeleteI chose this quote because I can relate to it and it's an interesting moment in Holden's life. This whole entire time he's been running away from his home because he doesn't want to face the reality in dissapointing his parents. But in this moment he's remembering what he missed about being away. Most teens and people can relate to this. Whenever I walk into my home, there's always the smell of food cooking since my mom loves to cook. A smell that is usually in my home is the aroma of roasted cauliflower which my mom makes in the oven so it kind of smells burnt but it's not.
I can agree with you becuase i know that feeling that Holden gets. I think that was the moment for him to relaize that he needs to just grow up and face his problems when he smelled that fresh air. It felt at home and that is usally a symbol of comfort.
Delete"I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it seem to be that he wanted to protect the innocence of every child since his didnt last. I also like this because the book was leading up to this in which he doesnt know where he stands as a person but when he was a child he was happy and felt real. But also when he says this he is having a converstation with a little girl who doesnt know much and thinks with innocences and doesn't get anything from a big point of view. It suchs that he is still pure and is trying to protect the innocence of the world. In this world many kids dont like the fact that the youth is growing to fast and many adults tell us to apperciate our age. In this chapter you can tell that all he wants is for everyone to think like him and be pure in thoughts like a kid.
I don't fully agree with you. In my honest opinion when he states that he'd just be the catcher in the rye, I don't think he means he wants to protect the innocence of every child. I honestly believe he wants to catch them before they fall into making more life like mistakes. He wants to be there for them because no one was/is there for him when he's struggling. When you really think about it Holden never said he had a good childhood, he actually didn't. I also don't think he wants everyone to think like him, but just for all to be equal in a sense where no one is judge by who they are.
DeleteI honestly disagree with both of you. I think that in that quote, he was stating that he wanted to catch everyone before they had the opportunity to diminish any bit of innocence they had left, and become phony. I believe that when he stated this, he just wanted to basically say that he wishes to catch people and, in a way, be an obstacle for them to become a phony. In a way, he's preserving their innocence, but in actuality is just minimizing the amount of people he's going to soon grow to dislike. He especially doesn't want kids to be in this category because of his great love for them.
DeleteGreat dialogue, girls! I love that you are disagreeing with each other and stating evidence to support your claims!
Delete"'You know that song "If a body catch a body comin' through the rye"? I'd like--''It's if a body meet a body coming through the rye!'" pg. 173
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because it made me wonder what the significance is of the way the song's lyrics are really "meet a body coming through the rye", rather than "catch a body". Holden says later that he wants to be the catcher in the rye, saving kids playing and having fun from falling to their deaths. I think the cliff represents adulthood and the loss of innocence. All Holden really wants to do is put kids like his sister Phoebe, and brother Allie, in a glass case where they won't have to face the turmoil goes he himself goes through. But Holden misunderstands the words of the song. He's so busy trying to protect childhood and innocence and keep from becoming a grown up phony that he doesn't meet people in the rye. He is constantly pushing people away and shutting them out, rather than connecting to teenagers that are asking the same questions he is. Holden is too depressed, angry, and hateful to meet people in the rye-life-who could help him. He can only try to steer other children away from the path he's taken, catch them before it's too late.
Great attention to detail, Francesca! I agree with you about his inability to meet people and be open to the world. It makes sense that he would ignore this lyric and substitute it out for "catch." I also think it's significant that Allie's mitt catches things, too. Hmm...
Delete"You don't like anything that's happening." It made me even more depressed when she said that."
ReplyDelete"Yes I do. Yes I do. Sure I do. Don't say that. Why the hell do you say that?" Chapter 22
This line is significant because people see Holden as a very private, closed, sarcastic person. Where nothing seems to bother him or he just doesn't care. As the reader we know Holden sets himself as an outcast and doesn't really speak out his mind. We also get to know that Holden is very unlikely to be satisfied by the way he explains himself to us.
Holden keeps wanting to hide his emotions from others through out the book. If you asked me he's actually pretty good at it. That's why I believe Holden gets some what offended; when Phoebe tells him he doesn't like anything because it goes to show that she see's right through him and he keeps denying it. It's like his identity is finally revealed to someone other than himself.
I agree that Phoebe sees right through Holden. It is probably easy for her to understand Holden because she is close with him, and really understands him. I also think it may worry Holden that Phoebe can see right through him because he likes to be private and if Phoebe reads Holden so easily, maybe others can too.
DeleteKatya
Matthew Baldwin
ReplyDelete"They let the whole-
you did get kicked out! You did. Old Phoebe said."
I don't know how see knew this but at first when Holden went in her room she was trilled to see him, but somehow she comes to the right conclusion that he gets kicked out. this shows that she is really smart. she got all of the story and how he got kicked out form Holden saying he got let out early from school. but even though she is smart she troughs a temper-tantrum and won't talk to Holden any more. the worst part of all is that at the end of the chapter he turns form loving brother to adult that has to take cigerettes from his family because he is out.
"That killed me. Her middle name is Josephine, for God's sake, not Weatherfield. She doesn't like it, though. Everytime I see her, she's got a new middle-name for herself."-Page 160
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me for a number of reasons. For starters, Holden has an abundance of things that 'kill' him. It's quite odd to read that almost everything that kills him is in association with kids. In addition to this, I found it to be significant that Holden included the part that Phoebe has a new middle-name for herself all the time. This certainly symbolizes her pure innocence at it's finest. I think it was written to really get the reader to understand what exactly Holden misses. He misses the ability to do things that aren't exactly 'real' and 'official.' He definitely misses having no worries in the world, not understanding every aspect of life, and living life day by day as oppose to calendar by calendar. In conclusion, this quote only proves how much he envies his sister.
I totally agree with you! I also think that so many things about kids "kill" Holden because he might want to change something in his own childhood.
DeleteKatya Bakal-Schlomann
ReplyDelete"'Anyway, I like it now,' I said. 'I mean right now. Sitting here with you and just chewing the fat and horsing-'
'That isn't anything really!'
'It is so something really! Certainly it is! Why the hell isn't it? People never think anything is anything really. I'm getting goddam sick of it.'" (pg 172)
I think this is a significant passage because it shows Holden's relationship with Phoebe, and how it is not perfect. I was very surprised that Holden and Phoebe were fighting, but I should've name of expected it because most siblings fight. Anyway, I was surprised because Holden describes Phoebe like a perfect little angle that he adores and wouldn't change a thing about her. He would probably like to preserve Phoebe in a 'glass case' just like he did with the museum. If Phoebe fights with Holden, and upsets him, wouldn't Holden want to change that? Maybe Holden would want to keep Phoebe the same is because if she stays how she is right now, fighting and all, she'll still keep her innocence, and innocence seems to be very important to Holden.
I think this passage also shows how Holden is a private and 'small' person. By small I do not mean insignificant, but rather that he has a preference to small situations because he feels a small situation can be big or the happiest moment ever. For example, talking with Phoebe may not seem like anything to Phoebe and the readers, but for Holden, it is a huge moment. He has just snuck up to see his sister that he talks so much about, and finally gets to speak with her; that's pretty big.
Holden probably likes small situations like just talking or being in a small crowd because he may think he'd get lost in a big crowd. By lost I mean he would lose his identity even more than he already has, and just become a complete phony. Holden would think this because all the celebrities he says are phony are surrounded by huge crowds and applauses, causing the celebrity to lose the meaning and greatness of his work being that anything he does will be greatly appreciated by most people.
Holden is sick of people missing the greatness of small moments, and wishes that others would understand a small moment's significance. I think Holden really appreciates small moments because he hasn't had enough. He's had many big dramatic moments such as Allie dying, D.B. going to Hollywood, and getting kicked out of several schools. Holden probably wants to just have a simple life with loads of small moments for him to cherish.
Leo lambert
ReplyDelete"I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all." chapter 22
I choose this quote because this quote seems to be the source of the book title. When Phoebe asks Holden what he wants to do with his life, this is how he responds. I think this response shows how much Holden is hanging on to his childhood and his responsibility to protects other peoples childhood by "saving" them and stoping them from entering adulthood. Holden shows throughout the book that he doesn't want people to grow up. We see this with Wendy, Phoebe, and in the museum and how he wanted everything to be frozen in place. Holden would rathe stand back and look at the world in his own imaginary, cynical way than deal with all the problems he is dealt and should face. Why is Holden trying to keep as much innocence as possible and why is he so reluctant to growing up? I thought kids always want to grow up, but once they realize how the adult life is they want to be a kid again. But by then it's always too late.
Hi leo, I agree with you. Holden knows he is not a child anymore, but he keeps trying to be around kids even though he is an outcast around them. This quote that you picked is really important, it shows why the title of the book is "Catcher in the rye" Good job!
Delete"Because you don't. You don't any schools. You don't like a million things. You don't."
ReplyDeleteChap. 22 page 220
That's a quote that stood out to me when Phoebe was asking Holden what he likes, and he wasn't able to reply to her back. So, she said that he didn't like anything.
I agree with Phoebe because Holden only sees the world in a negative way. Even though he says he doesn't like phonies and morons, he keep being with people that makes him feel bad and that are phonies and morons. I think he has a pleasure to be around people like that, and to hate everything and everyone.
There is many things that Holden likes for example the museum, Jane, Phoebe, ducks, and etc. The problem is that he is too busy thinking negative that he can't think about those things that makes him who he is.
It's not about depression. I think Holden thinks he can deal with everything on his own. He is too snob about his feelings, and he wants to be on top of everything. He always says thinks without thinking. I think that's what makes him an outcast. He is an outcast not because of his choice. It's because it was his choice to be one. He needs to know that everyone is different, and everyone will change one day. Even himself.
And I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff – I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it’s crazy, but that’s the only thing I’d really like to be.
ReplyDeletethis quote really stood out to me because this is where Holden reveals the title of the book. This also stood out to me because Holden was reminiscing about James Castle who was a boy who killed himself at one of the schools he went to. This brought me to the conclusion that does he look at himself as a catcher for someone who is willing to kill themselves? Something that also stood out to me was how this quote brought me to the conclusion that Holden see's life the same way Phoebe does. Which is basically as a child trying to be an adult. Holden loves to remain pure and youthful which is also why he has such strong opinions on almost everything
"How would you know you weren't being a phony? The trouble is you wouldn't."
ReplyDeleteThis quote reminded me of the discussion I was having in class today. I was saying that Holden is afraid of growing up and losing who he is. This line goes well with that because it talks about Holden thinking about how you wouldn't know when you were being real or fake. This reminded of famous people, how do we know they are themselves and fame hasn't gone to their heads...we don't. I think it's something that we all fear, we grow up and become someone successful how do we know the money won't change us how can we be sure that we are going to be ourselves and not fake. I think that is Holden's fear losing himself and just becoming like everyone else and becoming phony.
“Then all of a sudden, she [Phoebe] said, ‘Oh, why did you do it?’ She meant why did I get the ax again. It made me sort of sad, the way she said it” (167).
ReplyDeleteI think the reason Holden feels sad that Phoebe said this is because it lets Holden realize how immature he is. He realizes he is immature because he is being scolded by his younger sister, not even his parents, that he has been expelled from another school.
Holden may also find it sad that Phoebe said this because it showed how mature she is. Holden throughout the book has shown a love for innocence and a hatred for coming of age. One of the reasons Holden is breaking down is because of the lack of innocence around him and Phoebe was one of the last children he was close to. So the reason Holden was sad when Phoebe said this is because he is realizing that Phoebe is growing up and becoming mature
"I sat there on D.B.'s desk and read the whole notebook. It didn't take me long, and I can read that kind of stuff, some kid's notebook, Phoebe's or anybody's all day and all night long. Kid's notebooks kill me."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it proves that Holden wishes he was a little kid anymore. He misses his innocence and wants it back, and I think that he connects to innocence by trying to interact with kids. By reading kids' notebooks and talking to kids, Holden is trying to get back to his innocent times, even though he knows he can't have them anymore. Holden is trying to relive his innocence through Phoebe and other younger kids he meets. This quote makes me wonder why Holden really wants his innocence back. If Holden wants to be more innocent when he's not, he's being kind of phony because he isn't a young kid anymore and he's not as innocent as they are. But Holden also hates phonies, so it doesn't really make sense that he wants to be a kid again. This question also relates to most teenagers- why do teens generally dislike where they are in life, and want to be either older or younger?
I completely agree. Holden has shown many examples of wanting to be a kid again (example: helping the kids on the playground.) This is yet another example of his longing for his childhood. I think thinking about childhood for him makes him happy because he remembers all the good times he had. In the other hand, I think it makes him sad because he obviously wants those times back.
Delete"You don't like anything that's happening." It made me even more depressed when she said that."
ReplyDeleteThis quote is the most accurate thing I have read in the whole entire book. Holden is always criticizing other people and things. He never dwells on how much he likes someone or something (besides Phoebe and Jane.) He is always complaining and that is probably why Holden doesn't have very many friends. He doesn't open up to many people and he isn't very kind to many people. He is blunt with them and I can understand why people are turned off by that behavior.
"I felt swell, for a change. I didn't even feel like I was getting pneumonia or anything anymore. I just felt good, for a change."(page 159)
ReplyDeleteThis quote to me symbolizes what a sense of home can do for a person. Even Holden who hates admitting to feeling pleasent he is instantly at comfort when surrounded by memories. I think that a home is, a place where you can live amongst your favorite memories. Often times people confuse their house for a home, but to me it is a feeling. When Holden finally renters his house he is forced to face his fears. He feels home and is happy for the moment.
I completely agree with you when you say, "often times people confuse their house for a home, but to me it is a feeling." I think this is why Holden has been so lonely and depressed, in New York and at Pencey, because he did not have a home that he could return to. This reminds me of the reoccurring symbol of "the ducks." When Holden keeps wanting to know where the ducks go when the lake freezes over, or when they have no home, he is referring to himself having no where to go. I think people often times look for reassurance in others, to follow there patterns as guidelines. In this case, Holden is looking in the ducks.
Delete"Kid's notebooks kill me." (p. 161)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it raises the question, why would kid's notebooks 'kill' him? I think this is because of the notes to their friends and the innocence of that. I think Holden likes this because it is very innocent and, also, he misses doing that as a kid. I think these little notes remind Holden of being a kid and how easy it was. This connects to people in the world and the question we discussed in class, what do we miss most about our childhood? One thing we discussed we having no responsibilities. This connects to the passage because in the notebook it shows this children's responsibilities which is simply to do your school work and maintain a simple social life.
I love how you tied it back to today's conversation in class. I think Holden realizes that although he misses being a kid, I don't so much think it's the lack of responsibilities he misses but I think he misses Allie the most.
Delete"Her middle name is Josephine, for God's sake, not Weatherfield. She doesn't like it, though. Every time I see her, she's got a new middle name for herself."
ReplyDeleteP160
This quote stood out to me because it shows a flaw in Holden's thinking. When Holden looks at how Phoebe likes to change her middle name, he sees a cute little girl "playing pretend." However, when he looks at these same traits in others, he labels them phonies. He doesn't see her with the same objectivity that he sees the rest of the world with. To him, she is the one person that is being honest. She isn't "lying" to anyone about who she is, she's just living out her little fantasies. I think that Holden believes that people cannot live out fantasies the way kids can. Holden sees the world this way because of how much he hates his own life. He thinks that if he can't be happy, no one can. I think that what Salinger is trying to say is that if we use our own experiences to understand the world, we will never see it for what it is.
“Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean - except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be.” (page. 173)
ReplyDeleteI think although Holden is growing up, he still has childish dreams and ideals. Holden wants to believe if he can no longer be accepted as a peer of children, he can at least be accepted and loved as their protector. Holden wants the kids to not get hurt. He doesn't want anyone to die if they're little. He doesn't want anyone else to have to watch another Alliw die. He has no path or talents, at least to his knowledge he doesn't. And the only thing he want to do his protects little kids. They are too young and innocent to die.
I definitely agree but I think he means more than just saving them from dying. I think he wants them to stay innocent and stay a child. This isn't possible but I think he wants to "keep them in a glass case" so they don't change or grow up. As you grow up, you become a phony.
Delete"I felt swell, for a change. I didn't even feel like I was getting pneumonia or anything anymore. I just felt good, for a change."(page 159)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because Holden is so complex. even though he seemed to stall and not wanna go home, deep inside he missed. As he stated he missed the smell of his house and he missed Phoebe. Sometimes when you leave something, you don't really how much you miss or appreciate something until its gone. I think Holden feels like everything is back to normal, but as you keep reading Phoebe seems to have matured, she has a crush on some boy. I feel like Holden doesn't want to grow up and if Phoebe grows up tooo much then he will lose all hope. Holden misses his past and choldhood and he trues to live up to it all he time but doesn't realize that it is the past and he needs to move on.
"I felt swell for a change . I didn't even feel like getting pneumonia or anything any more. I just felt good for a change."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because Holden actually feels better getting home but he's been so hard to avoid it. He's been feeling lonely and depressed ever since he left Pency. He kept saying how he didn't want to go home because he didn't want to talk to his parents about him getting kicked out of school, but one this he didin't realize was the fact that he would feel better off going home then leaving to a hotel.
I also think that the reason he reason he felt better was because of Phoebe. Holden has a strong relationship with Phoebe, with D.B. going off to Hollywood being a prostitute, and Allie's death Phoebe is the only one he has that hasn't left him. He wouldn't be as depressed and lonely if he just went home.
"And besides. Even if you did go around saving guys' lives and all, how would you know if you did it because you really wanted to save guys' lives, or because you did it because what you really wanted to do was be a terrific lawyer, with everybody slapping you on the back and congratulating you in court when the goddam trial was over, the reporters and everybody, the way it is in dirty movies? How would you know you weren't being phony? The trouble is, you wouldn't." -Page 172 This quote really stood out for me because I was really able to understand how Holden felt and what he meant by this. He's saying that how do you know yourself that what you're doing is TRUE, or are you just doing these things for society's sake? I think this is the main reason why Holden calls most people phonies. He calls Ernie a phony because I feel that he thinks Ernie is just playing to play not really to enjoy what he's doing. He's doing it for the audience to please OTHERS, but not himself. He's getting recognition and fame but he doesn't do it to because playing piano makes him happy but it pleases others. This is the same situation with D.B. He's not writing from his heart, he's writing a love story and Holden is upset by this because he KNOS D.B knows nothing about those type of writings. Holden thinks that people are being who they are because it's what's "right" to society's eyes not what they WANT to be. He likes the nuns and doesn't call them phony because they're helping OTHERS and they're happy about it. He likes James because he stood up for what he thought. What Holden is trying to say is that we tend to get our minds stuck into society's expectations and forget to be true to ourselves. We're all being phonies but we don't realize it because we're blinded by the fact that this is what society say that's right.
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