What stands out to you from the end of the novel? Is there resolution for Montag? What is Ray Bradbury trying to convey about a censored society? Choose a passage that really spoke to you and revealed some meaning/a larger understanding about Montag or the novel in general.
2) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post! Answer their questions, or pose a question of your own!
"The difference between the man who just cuts lawns and a real gardener is in the touching , he said. The lawn cutter might just as well not have been there at all; the gardener will be there a lifetime."
ReplyDeleteThroughout the last few pages of the novel the characters continued to re-visit this idea. I became gravitated towards the language Bradbury conveyed in this quote and what he was really trying to say. It's the idea of making a change in society that keeps you around forever . Similar to Montag and all the others who had to run out of the city, they want to make changes that people will remember them by . Sharing a story to a whole small town will keep there soul there even after death. In a way Montag trying to find his true identity was his resolution. As he moves out of the city and heads north he will soon figure out who he is and maybe even find his happiness .
I agree with what you said and I like your idea of making change in your society. I think that throughout this book, Montag wanted to change his society for the better and make it more happy for everyone, not just a gray, boring life.
DeleteBradbury was definitely getting at the idea that putting thought and effort into something is what is going to make you memorable or meaningful in the world. You don't have to be famous to have an impact, you just have to bring something to the world
DeleteI completely agree with you. Mantag at the beginning of the novel he burned books because that was his job after he met Clarisse I feel like that woke him up, it made him realize where he was living and how horrible it was. Towards the end he wanted to change his society, he wanted to make it a better place instead of it being gray full of stupid people.
Delete"'Stuff your eyes with wonder,' he said, 'live as if you'd drop dead in 10 seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or paid for in factories.'" (157)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it showcases a theme that Bradbury continuously talks about throughout the book. In the society depicted in the book, people are kept mindless and complacent by the electronic wall/television devices. The people are kept constantly entertained and essentially brainwashed by the constant streaming of TV programs that are run by the government. In class discussion a few days ago, we drew a parallel between this idea and the current reality shows that are seen on TV today. People are more interested in watching other people's lives then having their own life experiences. Bradbury is also trying to say that if the people in the society are kept mindless, then they are easily controlled and told what to think and where to go. The people have been made to enjoy and find life in technology. They don't have their own real life experiences. They use technology as a mind numbing escape from reality of the world. Technology is used as a way to keep them busy and distract them from thinking about anything that could cause emotional or mental pain. Overall, Bradbury is trying to convey that people in this society, and just people in general need to actually experience life and learn things for themselves rather then just being spoon-fed by a government that wants to control them, and tell them what to feel and think. At the end of the story there is a hope that the society will be able to rebuild in a more positive way, allowing freethinking of the people.
I really love this quote and i also think its very important that it is placed at the end of the book. It was a revealing moment for Montag. He has never been able to stop and observe the beauty of the world let alone the wonder in it. Clarisse sparked this for him because knowing how life used to be for Montag and how drastically it has changed everything is different. He used to not be able to see the beauty in the world, let alone think of his own opinions and thoughts. Montag has changed for the better he is finally a human instead of a robot. He can control his own mind now.
Delete"It's not pleasant, but then we're not in control, we're theodd minority crying in the wilderness. When the war's over, perhaps we can be of some use in the world."
ReplyDeleteThis part stood out to me because it seemed like Montag finally realized that he could use his knowledge for good and help his society. Even though the government and the people controlling their community try to make people believe that "ignorance is bliss", he realizes now that he can make his life and many other people's lives better with knoledge from books.
Yes, this is the moment where Montag sees he has some sort of place in the world, and he can help others gain knowledge, and have that knowledge go on for many generations.
Delete“I want you to meet Jonathan Swift, the author of that of that evil political book, Gulliver’s Travels! And this other fellow is Charles Darwin, and this one is Schopenhauer… Here we all are, Montag. Aristophanes and Mahatma Gandhi and Gautama Buddha and Confucius and Thomas Love Peacock and Thomas Jefferson and Mr. Lincoln, if you please. We are also Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” (145)
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because it shows that ideas are so much more important than the material item. People can burn as many books as they want, but none of it will make a difference so long as people remember what the book contained. The idea of something doesn’t die with it. Thomas Jefferson, for example, died many years ago, but his ideas are still the basis of some things today. Basically, Montag realizes that your mind is such an important thing, and you can’t let anyone take that away from you. It is something that was taken from Mildred and so many other people in this story, and they became “grey animals” for it. People will always carry the stories and ideas of others with them.
I totally agree with you. I think that its not about the person that you are but what you have to offer in terms of knowledge so that can have a way to remember you. In this case Mildred had her mind taken away so she had nothing to offer which is why Montag feels empty feelings for her .
DeleteI completely agree with you. Bradbury showcases the change in society and how nobody keeps the past with them. However, Bradbury shows that Montag embraces the past which makes him special, which makes people so afraid of him.
DeleteI agree. It's like when Granger was talking about his grandfather. He was saying that his grandfather "did things to the world." When he passed away, Granger later realized that he wasn't crying for his grandfather, but for the things that he'd done. He was basically saying that his grandfather's ideas didn't die with him, especially since he always thought of them.
Delete" Look at the world out there, my god, my god, look at it out there, outside me, out there beyond my face and the only way to really touch it is to put it where its finally me, where its in the blood, where it pumps around a thousand times ten thousand a day. I get hold of it so it'll never run off. I'll hold onto the world tight someday". Here it shows that Montag feels that one day the world would be under his control. Also, it demonstrates that if he uses his knowledge and uses his action then society would be a better place for people to live in. Additionally, this connects to when Granger says "it doesn't matter what you do, he said, so long as you change something from the way it was before you touched it into something thats like you after you take your hands away". This shows that as long as Montag does something to change the society everything would be how he likes it. Also, Granger says that people wouldn't cry when you're dead but because of what you do so most likely Montag would be remembered for his action that he does to help society.
ReplyDeleteGranger gives Montag a speech, saying that they hold this power, just that are not powerful enough and that they are too irrelevant in society to be able to make a change. They hold the power to pass on information, but that is not enough to make a major change. About what Granger said about how people wouldn't cry when you were dead gives Montag a reassuring boost because of his doubt in himself when he wouldn't cry when thinking about Mildred's death.
Delete"Montag, falling flat, going down, saw or felt, or imagined he saw or felt the walls go dark in Millie's face, heard her screaming, because in the millionth part of time left, he saw her own face there, in a mirror instead of a crystal ball, and it was such a, wildly empty face, all by itself in the room, touching nothing, starved and eating of itself..." (159).
ReplyDeleteThis piece stood out to me because it illustrates the theme of nothingness. Montag is always showing how Mildred is nothing, sees nothing and feels nothing. Even in the event of the bomb strike, he is imagining his wife dying with emptiness, just like how he did in the beginning of the book when she overdosed. Bradbury is keeping a continuous theme of empty. He is making a statement about how when his society was changing, there were bad changes; people start to pay more attention to technology rather than living their lives. This is Bradbury's extreme version of civilization today. People usually spend most of their time on the internet rather than spending time with people.
Also, in this moment Mildred is aware of her emptiness. I agree with you that this quote also has to do with change because in this moment, Mildred is finally changing from "empty" to "aware", and maybe that is what saddens Montag, that she didn't realize it earlier.
DeleteI agree with you completely, but i would also like to add that in this moment i feel that Montag is realizing that Mildred never had any purpose because if you go to later on in the reading when it talks about the "mirrors" and how people would just have to look at themselves and realize what they are. So this emulates that Mildred had changed from this reflection of society (crystal ball) to a reflection of herself (mirror) but sadly she has been affected by society heavily and is still empty hence the words "wildly empty face".
Delete"I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember . Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I . That's where we met. I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago." (160)
ReplyDeleteThis part in the novel really stood out to me, after Montag saying that he wouldn't cry if Mildred dies and saying all these thing about not missing her if she gone. He all of the sudden remembers where they both met. To me this suggesting that he has somehow managed to feel the connection that was missing when she was alive.
What you said is completely true because he starts remembering what really matters in his relationship with Mildred and how there were good times and bad times in their relationship. When the bombs explode it gives him a completely new view on life in general and how not everything was so bad because before Millie started attempting to commit suicide they had a great relationship. Now that Montag lost Mildred he has no where to go to and no one to go to. He is now alone for the rest of his life until he meets another woman. Loosing Mildred was all he needed to remember the good times because he didn't appreciate how great their relationship was.
DeleteI strongly agree with this . With Faber no longer being there to help and support Momtag he felt the need to remember when he did have that love and support espicially from Mildred . He's cared for her all along and now with his new found connection in books he found a way to express that even though he may have lost love for Mildred he still cares for her very much.
Delete"The first bomb struck. 'Mildred!' " (152)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me the most in this whole book because at this point there were many things that occurred. First the war was over, Mildred died, all the people in the city died, the hound died. The censored society all died, it didn't exist anymore. This is the life changing moment and the big dose of reality that Montag experienced because when the bombs struck he realized how much Mildred meant to him and the connection that they had with each other before she started acting bland and very boring. Everything changed now because he didn't have a home now. The only thing that he could go back to was Mildred, and now she was gone. Montag now doesn't have a home or anywhere to go to both physically and mentally.
This moment stuck out to me too. Montag realizes that although him and Mildred never had a really sincere and deep connection, she did in fact mean something to him. His initial thought when he hears the bombs is Mildred, which, to me, was very unexpected.
DeleteI agree with you. Although, Mildred seem to have offered nothing to Montag, he still cared for Mildred. Montag will cry when Mildred is gone and it's not because she is dead. It's because of how innocent and full of nothing Mildred was.
DeleteI personally don't think Montag has any real feelings for Mildred except that she is the only reality that he has known that connects him to society. The problem with the possibility that Montag has feelings for Mildred is that what is it that he holds onto. Mildred is nothing to Montag except the symbol of a past that he never truly had.
Delete"...that at last she recognized it as her own and looked quickly up at the ceiling as it and the entire structure of the hotel blasted down upon her."
ReplyDeleteI feel like throughout the entire book, Bradbury is hinting at this idea of "this is what our society will become", and this quote is showing how, if we let things get bad enough we will realize what we are doing too late. There are actually many similarities between the society in the book and our society now. For example, the media. Some people today are so dependent on the media that they rarely even leave their house. There's another part where someone says, "Do you really think they'll listen then?", and this also helps to show that we need to make sure that our society never goes to these extremes because it will reach "a point of no return".
To add on, she realized at the last minute that her reflection was her own -not because she didn't know what she looked like- but because she had never known who she truly was . She was filled with nothing and she died that way, just like the rest of society. When Montag was describing the situation she might be in he stated "and it was such a wild empty face, all by itself in the room, touching nothing" (159). This shows that not only that Mildred died empty, but that she never 'touched' any thing, she was never an influence in her society despite thinking that she belonged and despite feeling important when she read the lines to the ' family'. Society was an influence to her in ways she had never known and died never knowing.
Delete"It doesn't matter what you do…so long as you change something from the way it was before you touched it into something that's like you after you take your hands away." (150)
ReplyDeleteI think that at this moment, Montag realizes that the people in his world don't change anything. They rely 100% on the government and they never make an effort. He realizes that the people he had spent his whole life with, such as Mildred, never had an effect on the world. He also realizes that before he met Clarrise he was also just another product of society, and this makes him very upset at himself. It took so long for him to realize how messed up their world is.
I definitely agree with what you are saying when Montag realizes that he and everyone else in his society don't have control over themselves, they never get to truly be themselves. I think this really affected Montag, because in this moment he realizes that he doesn't have something that has a part of him in it. This makes him finally more aware of the society and it makes him open up to himself on what he wants to do.
Delete"And when they ask us what we are doing, you can say, Were remembering. That's where we'll win in the long run." (164)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me as a realization and a solution for society's problems in this setting and time. This idea of remembering separates Montag, Faber, and Granger from Beatty, Mildred, Ms. Phelps, and Ms. Bowels. Montag has these real emotions and thoughts that give him the opportunity to think and create philosophies about the world, whereas people like Mildred, the average person in their society isn't quite able to do such a thing. This is a positive drive for Montag and Granger, to hold the information so that more people like them can carry on the information and strive towards making a change in the empty society living there. Montag can see that people in the world don't make a difference because they are like the pets of the government.
"When we forget how close the wilderness is in the night, my grandpa said, someday it will come in and get us, for we will have forgotten how terrible and real it can be" (157).
ReplyDeleteI think that this quote stated by Granger is very powerful and can really relate to both our world and their world because it focuses on our destructive behaviors. In their society they are constantly destroying books and even the environment with these "wars" which as shown in this reading, when they dropped a bomb on the city, obliterated the entire city and even affected the environment far from them. In this part both Granger and Montag figure out that these people don't realize that they are basically guests that are destroying the hand that feeds them (mother earth) with all these wars, and technology and burning things. Also this destructive behavior can be see in our society in how we are always denaturing these big plots of land which were rich and full of trees, animals and their homes, just for our satisfaction so we can build a mall, or apartments, or other useless structures. We all contribute to this destruction of our own surroundings so little may we know our own host might turn on us as Granger said. I would also want to turn this to the big idea of lacking knowledge because they lack the knowledge of knowing how much they are destroying their own earth by all of this burning and destruction so they continue to do it not knowing the danger they are putting themselves in to.
"You're not important. You're not anything. Someday the load were carrying with us may help someone." (164)
ReplyDeleteThroughout the whole book, the people were treated as they were not important, they were full of nothing. Although the government disguised and made the people seem as they were an important, the people were too full of nothing to realize it. Montag and the others realized and used it to their advantage. Now they will be able reshape the society and open it's eyes to what the world is really like.
I completely agree with you and I think Montag and the rest of the group will go far in trying to reshape the world.
Delete"'Welcome back from the dead'" (150).
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it symbolized Montag being born into a more meaningful life. Bradbury uses imagery throughout the book, especially to describe the "death" of burning books, which shows the idea of transformation. Montag became part of the group of men that he met while he was running away and they made him feel as if he were needed. Each of the men were able to say the book word for word and they assigned Montag a book as well.The traces of the past that are in the books offer the men multiple lives, identities, and opportunities for rebirth. Now, in Montag's new life, he has the three things that Faber told him were required for a full life, which were exposure to nature and the world of books, time to think, and freedom to act.
"What did you give the city, Montag?
ReplyDeleteAshes.
What did the others give to each other?
Nothingness" (149)
This part to the reading stuck out to me because it shows how Montag gave something that is taken as a negative term to us, but was looked as a good thing to the people in Montag's world. Others gave nothing to society, which is probably why the people didn't have a good life (or what we say is good). The government found a way of tricking the people into thinking they are doing something when really, they aren't. This can also be a reason why the city got bombed, nobody was smart enough to do anything to stop it, even in the government.
I agree with you. In my blog I also wrote about the government tricking the people into believing them. The people in this society believe anything that they're told. It really shows how uneducated and unaware they are.
Delete" We're going to build a mirror factory first and put out nothing but mirrors for the next year and take a long look in them" (164)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it goes deeper than simply saying that people should really know what they look like, it illustrates a sense of discovery that people must find before 'beginning again' in Grangers eye's. When he says this, he means that people should have time to get a sense of what their purpose is in this world because if they don't then they go on making the same mistakes that people have made in society before, such as burning books. In whole, Granger does not want people to repeat history, he wants them to reflect and bring change to the new world. It is just like he was comparing us to the phoenix- the only difference is that we know what we did wrong. Looking into the mirrors and discovering ourselves helps us to make decisions that will not repeat these mistakes.
" My wife, my wife. Poor Millie, poor, poor Millie. I can't remember anything. I think of her hands but I don't see them doing anything at all. They just hang there at her sides or they lay there on her lap or there's a cigarette in them, but that's all."
ReplyDeleteWhen I was reading this quote, I couldn't help but be somewhat confused. Montag is talking about feeling so awful for Mildred, and then he goes on to say that her hands had no use, they didn't do anything important. Could it be that he feels so awful for her because her hands don't have purpose? Talking about Mildred this way, ties back to a reappearing topic, that the people in this society lack purpose. The way he describes her hands at her sides makes her seem dead. He then goes on to say that her hands don't do absolutely nothing, she tends to hold her cigarettes in them. The fact that Montag uses a cigarette, of all object, to put in her hands, shows the power of a single object. Just like smoking, when she does it, it is slowly killing her, or in this case the less she does it is slowly killing and her and making her body useless.
I dont think he means it literally that her hands have no purpose, I think it symbolizes a bigger meaning that everything is so "perfect" that theres no use for even the simplest things. I think Montag feels bad for her because this whole time he blames his wife for being corrupted and "killing herself" when its only now that he's realizing she really had no choice.
Delete"I wonder how many knew it was coming? I wonder how many were surprised?" (162)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows how unaware the people of this society are. Earlier in the book, Mildred's friends were talking about how their husbands were going in the war but they would be back in two days. Quick war they said. Quick war. They were told that nothing would happen to them. Now they're bombing the city and probably dead. The people in this society are so brainwashed by the things that the government is telling them and they believe basically anything that they're told. Their society is so corrupt and no one seems to notice it, except for the people living on the train tracks. This line also stands out to me because it shows pity. When Granger is saying this, you can tell that he feels bad for those people being bombed. He feels bad that they have no knowledge of what is happening, or no knowledge at all. These people really never did anything at all, so they didn't deserve to die.
"But every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again. And it looks like we're doing the same thing, over and over." (163)
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because the phoenix reminded me of Montag and how he had the courage to carry out with his plan and do something for himself. He didn't make any rash decisions based on the government or society, Montag wanted to read books and change the world for himself. I feel like Montag has finally found himself and his identity.
This quote also stood out to me, because for the third or so time, we see Bradbury write about birds. Throughout the story, Bradbury relates books to birds- at first to delicate birds, then to harsher, fiercer birds. Now, in this description of the Phoenix, we see Bradbury explain this bird that burns itself down, and then builds itself back up. The idea of this Phoenix mirrors the society in this book well- a society which (literally) constantly burns books to change the people and their views and values.
Delete"I got hold of it so it'll never run off. I'll hold onto the world tight someay. I've got ond finger on it now; that's a beginning" (162)
ReplyDeleteIn the previous scenes Granger talks about knowledge dying with the person who has it, and that's what the it in this quote is for Montag. Its this idea of experiencing something new and although you dont understand it immediately, feeling like you'll have time to decipher it over time. Montag talks about holding onto the world tightly, this is a turning point for Montag because he's finally starting to see things in a more philosophical light and appreciating literature and destruction in a way that he's never seen them.
"But every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again." (163)
ReplyDeleteThis was a very symbolic moment, I think. First, it struck me because the phoenix was the symbol of the firemen! Granger says the only thing that distinguishes us from the phoenix is because humans learn from their mistakes. If the symbol of the fireman is the phoenix it shows that they DO NOT learn from their mistakes. They are all blind sided by the technology that it is not letting them react the right way to simple things. When Montag breaks away from the firemen and joins the men near the rail-road tracks his eyes are opened and he realizes mistakes that he has made and how to remember to better himself. The constant rebirth of the phoenix without learning from it`s mistakes symbolizes Montag`s past self and what he has overcome.
Why did Granger decide to say this? What triggered it?
All the firemen are completely the same along with all the people in the society. Montag broke away from the society and became an individual. As well as all the other men who Montag is with, they have all become individuals and broken from society. They have been reborn but unlike that phoenix they have learned from their mistakes.
DeleteI agree with both of your overall statements. Especially since Montag can clearly show how the fireman differentiate from the phoenix. For example, the phoenix is an animal that is born, lived, burned, and reborn from it's ashes without a second thought. Unlike that. Montag had the power and mind to take a second thought. This is what Bradbury wanted us to use as a "trigger" (according to Besa) to keep us thinking different.
Delete"And when he died, I suddenly realized I wasn't crying for him at all, but for all the things he did"
ReplyDeleteMontag realizes why he didn't love Millie. She wasn't individual at all, if she had just disappeared nobody would miss her because she was not different from anybody else. She never did anything at, Granger's grandfather was always doing something and creating things and make a change This made him individual, he created things, when you don't do anything nobody will miss or cry for you because you never did anything worth missing. The government created the idea in people's heads that they were important individuals with their own opinions, but in reality they were just the same as everybody around them. The government wouldn't allow individuality because it makes opposing opinions which is why they burned the books.
“And the war began and ended in that instant.”
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows how this society goes by so fast. Specifically, life in that society goes by so quick. The war to me represents "hard work." If someone in that society tries to work hard, it will stop right then. Like Beatty says that reading books is just a waste of time. Basically I think they have to put in work to read books because their technology is so advanced. Everyone is looking to be entertained and who ever will try to read a book, which is work, will be an outcast. No one appreciates hard work and everyone loves to be entertained because they want to live "YOLO." Everything is so technological in their society that the society is being provided only with entertainment, not knowledge.
"And hold onto one thought: you're not important. You're not anything."
ReplyDeleteWhen Granger says this, I feel as though she portrays our world as it will be. For example, the world of Fahrenheit 451 is a clear representative of a dystopia-like image. This book was created by Bradbury as a Science-Fiction novel. His role for Montag was to show us that thinking differently is never the wrong thing. Granger's role is to show us what would happen to the real world if we didn't make a change. I believe that is the purpose of Montag.