What stands out to you from the end of the novel? Is there resolution for Montag? What is Ray Bradbury trying to convey about a censored society? Choose a passage that really spoke to you and revealed some meaning/a larger understanding about Montag or the novel in general.
2) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post! Answer their questions, or pose a question of your own!
"But even when we had the books on hand, a long time ago, We didn't use what we got out of them. We went right on insulting the dead" (164)
ReplyDeleteI find this part interesting because of how different it is from the rest of the big picture of the book. Throughout the novel, Bradbury explains how books can, and are supposed to be used in order to learn and not repeat mistakes from our past. After being so one sided throughout the novel, he finally looks at the other side of the issue. However, in the last part of the quote it says how they go right on insulting the dead. This means that they disrespect the people who they either think or know are dead. In Montag's case, this is when the government said that they had killed him. No one seemed to notice let alone care that he had just "died". Also, when the joy-seeking kids tried to run Montag over, they cared more about their car then they did him, seeing that the only reason for sparing his life was out of fear of damaging their car. It is arguable to say that the reason they went on a blood-thirst joy-ride, was because they felt no purpose in the world. It is human nature to be wanted to feel needed. If we do not, we destroy it to feel noticed. The people did not notice that Montag was not killed because they were too a costumed to following what the government told them all the time and not doing anything for themselves. What I am trying to get at is that without literature, people care less about "insulting the dead". Even though we might still go to "insult the dead", and do other bad things, we know that they are bad because we learn of it in literature that we read. These kids have no idea that what they are doing is bad. I think what Bradbury is trying to explain is that the most important thing is that we are able to know when we do bad things and even if we do them, at least to know that they are bad.
I really like your analysis and I love when you explained how it is human nature to want to feel needed, and as you put it, "if we do not, we destroy it to feel noticed." This perfectly sums up the job of a fireman, and relates greatly to the line "those who don't build must burn" (89). People need a purpose in life or a goal to strive for to fulfill themselves, and if they don't they resort to extreme and possibly dangerous activities. Also, you talked about "insulting the dead," and I think an example of this would be burning books, especially classics. I would assume that the vast majority of authors would be dead by now, and burning their work, their mark on the world, is very much insulting. Without their books, there is barely any evidence that they lived at all.
Delete"'We know all the damn silly things we've done for a thousand years and as long as we know that and always have it around where we can see it, someday we'll stop making the goddam funeral pyres and jumping in the middle of them.'" -page 156
ReplyDeleteThis quote, from part of Granger's speech, really stood out to me because of the powerful imagery behind the line. When Granger says this, he's explaining the concept behind the story of the Phoenix and how it kept on resurrecting and society will do the same thing-except the people will be aware of past mistakes and learn from them so as not to make those same mistakes over and over again. The way he says that people jump into the middle of funeral pyres really resonated with me because it exemplifies how in this society, the people are so robotic and mindless that they readily jump into fire for their government; they readily give up books, give up knowledge, and follow commands like a drone. And people are so eager to jump into the funeral pyres because they really have no reason to live. They confuse ignorant bliss with happiness and so they'll give up their lives at the taking of a sleep sedative or the driving of a car because they can't see that's what's missing from their lives is thought. Just like how Granger explains that physical books aren't important it's what in them and carrying that knowledge can fulfill someone, because with even a few lines from a book you can analyze, discuss, and then impart this knowledge onto others. Through all of this Bradbury is trying to show that a censored society is dysfunctional because in order for past mistakes to not be made again and for people to be truly happy, everyone must have knowledge. Everyone must be able to learn for themselves and independently make decisions because parroting and obeying the government may be easier than thinking, but it really leaves a vacancy in people. Despite the alluring colors of the television walls in this society, at the end of the day everyone was still “empty” because they lived in an illusion not in reality. People couldn’t recognize that knowledge is power because it allows people to touch and shape the world; to leave their mark for the benefit of society. Overall, Bradbury is trying to say that a censored society leads to emptiness, and that this society in Fahrenheit 451 must be rebuilt on a new foundation of knowledge to correct for the mistakes made in the past.
Ilana, I completely agree with you. I would also like to add on something that Granger told Montag. He told him that he missed what his grandfather did rather than him missing his actual grandfather. I think that this is significant, because it shows that the impact that people have on others is really important and it does matter to other people. This relates to Montag, because he realizes how he was burning all these books, which contained all these thoughts, ideas, and knowledge within them. Montag mentions earlier in the book that it took some people a lifetime to publish these books. Montag is the 'grandfather' and his impact is burning the books. This relates to the larger meaning of the novel, because at the end, this is one of the things that gives him the initiative to become a better person and to stop burning the books.
DeleteI like your point that knowledge is more important than just physical books. The fireman may burn books, but they can never burn ideas. That is what people of this society don't get. Books don't start controversy, they are the product of controversy.
Delete"'Come on now, we're going to go build a mirror factory first and put out nothing but mirrors for the next year and take a long look in them'" (157).
ReplyDeleteThis is the quotation that stuck out to me the most about the end of the book. I think that there is a relative solution for Montag, based off of this quotation, which was said by Granger right after the war ended. I think the solution here is that Montag is realizing exactly who he is. He realizes everything about society, and how everyone is controlled. By Granger saying this, Montag realizes that people don't always appear to be who they are on the outside. For example, Mildred appeared to be a human being on the outside, but on the inside, she was nothing more than a robot. He also realizes that in order to accomplish anything, you have to figure out who you are and you have to find people like yourself or people that you can relate to to move yourself forward in life. In this case, the people that Montag found were Granger, Fred Clement, Thomas Hardy, Dr. Simmons, Professor West, and Reverend Padover. Furthermore, what Ray Bradbury is conveying censored society to be, as briefly explained earlier in this blog post, is that it is a negative thing. These people have no thoughts or feelings, they are 'just faces'. These 'humans' are actually robots, thoughtlessly doing whatever the government tells them to do. Montag, being the main character and the overall 'protagonist', is portrayed as someone who cannot be controlled by society ever since he met Clarisse. This leads you to believe that being part of a censored society is a negative thing. To summarize this, I think this quotation reveals the larger meaning of the novel in the sense that it shows that everyone in Montag's society was controlled by the government, showing that people are not always who they appear to be on the outside. Also, this is showing that people should figure out exactly who they are, because it will help them tremendously in life.
I loved what you said about how people can seem very different on the outside than they are on the inside was really interesting. I think that through this idea and through the line you chose about the mirror factory, Bradbury is trying to convey that self-examination is essential for personal progression. When people look into a mirror, they see who they are and from that, people can see who they want to be. Looking at his life and himself as a person, Montag could clearly see that he wasn’t servicing the world as a fireman and that he wanted to read books, he wanted to actually love his wife, and he wanted knowledge-he didn’t want to be a technological drone like Mildred. I think that the idea of opening a mirror factory is so that all of society can take a good, honest look at themselves in the mirror because they probably won’t like what they see. The bright, colorful of illusion of the television is all these people know and if they actually looked in a mirror and took a real look at who they are not only on the outside but on the inside, they might recognize the emptiness in their lives-the lack of knowledge that’s keeping them from actually being “happy”. And they’d realize that technology leads to ignorant bliss not real fulfillment which would give them the chance to change their ways. Overall, I think that through this line about the mirror factory, Bradbury is trying to show that in order for society to progress, everyone must make that individual effort to self-examine and then better themselves so they can touch the world and make a positive change, just like Montag’s attempting to do.
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ReplyDeleteI found the cycilic themes of the book interesting. This book, and especially the ending empathises that the world is a cycle. In the first part, a woman gets burned. In the second part, Montag's house gets burned. In the third part, society burns. Towards the end, it seems that society is going into another dark ages. It shows that society is a constant cycle- innovation, binge, and then fall, and rebirth into another age of innovation. In fact, at the end of the book, a Phoenix is used as a metaphor for society. It burns itself up, so it can get reborn more pure. This has to happen, because society ignores the lessons of the past, and can't learn from it's mistakes. To keep this from happening, Granger and the book people have tasked themselves with remembering the lessons of the past. They feel that they need to use the mistakes of the past to build a better society.
ReplyDeleteThis is really good I never thought of this! I see how it all connects now. Great analysis. I don't really know how to add onto this since it was really well put together. I guess I would like to guess what happens. I hope there are still people that survived from it, or those intellectuals wii start their new community along with other people that were controlled by the government which brings up the Mirrors, since they reflect you and You can't deny yourself. After that, from there after refuting books and education people, a new place would be rebuilt connected the city to the outside world. I wonder if Montag will have any children, how would he/she be, if he finds someone else.
Delete"There was a silly damn bird called a phoenix back before Christ, every few hundred years he built a pyre and burnt himself up. He must have been first cousin to Man" (163).
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because it was the beginning of a connection between a phoenix and Montag and Granger's current society, which I had anticipated since the first mentions of the bird on page 6 and 26. As the story goes, phoenixes can be reborn from their ashes, which sounds majestic and mysterious, but in this case Granger makes the bird sound foolish by putting the emphasis on burning itself in the first place. The line "He must have been first cousin to Man" sounds slightly humorous, but this shows how he believes that humans are foolish and silly too. The people in their society are literally burning books, which is the same as burning themselves, or at least their potential knowledge and intellectual ancestry. Their actions backfire (no pun intended), however, and Beatty and other firemen do actually die. Ironically, at the end of the book, the city ends up being just a pile of ashes. But sticking to the metaphor, we know that civilization will be reborn, perhaps just to be set aflame again. The people of Montag's city were kept ignorant, uneducated, and distracted, while supporting activities that turned out to be self-destructive. I believe that a more involved and aware group of people would have prepared for the war, and avoided being destroyed by enemy bombs. Granger, Montag, and the others outside of the city know that knowledge, not necessarily physical books, is the key to an advanced society.
I agree that the phoenix relates to the foolishness of people in their society. Thinking about the word pyre in the quote, he mentions it again a few sentences after. A pyre is used at funerals, so when he says " some day we'll stop making goddam funeral pyres and jumping right in the middle of them", it makes me think that the people in the society are already dead, and the burning is just a part of the funeral.
DeleteI really like your analysis on how the phoenix being called "foolish" represents the foolishness of the people in the society. Like you said, as a phoenix is reborn and rises from the ashes, society can too. Now that the city is destroyed, it's like people are being offered the opportunity to be reborn and start again; to build their society on knowledge not ignorance and correct their mistakes to form a better society than the previous one. I also really thought the idea of the phoenix rising from the ashes because society will literally rise again from their burnt town.
DeleteI agree with the symbolism with the birth of a phoenix and Montag's need for a new society. It is also interesting that like a Phoenix, it burns bright and and is on fire, Montag's signature. It is also a bird which can soar to great heights, which is like Montag in some ways. One other similarity is that it is a legend and a far fetched idea, like the ideal society Montag wants.
Delete“I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I. That’s where we met! I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago” (153).
ReplyDeleteI really felt this quote gave us a sense of conclusion. I found it interesting that he just suddenly remembered where he and Mildred met. He was thinking of Mildred a lot in general in this part of the book, and right before he remembers, he is imagining how she is dying. I don’t think that is a coincidence. Looking back to when Granger says, “It’ll come when we need it” to Montag when he says he can’t remember the Book of Ecclesiastes, I think means we will remember anything in general when it is triggered. In Montag’s mind, Mildred has just died, and he feels that he needs to know at least where they met. So the passage before triggered an important memory that had been forgotten for so long. I think that this memory resolves a big part of the book. He asks Mildred how they met in the beginning of the book and it is finally answered, which lifts a great weight of Montag’s shoulders, and the reader’s.
i love what you said its really well thought out but when i read this i thought of someone slaping water on your face so you wake up. i think mille has just had water pored on her
DeleteI agree with how Montag finally remembers things about his and Mildred's past. It's odd that before the city was bombed, Montags says, "I don't miss her… Even if she dies, I realized a moment ago, I don't think I'll feel sad"(155). And once he realizes Mildred might be dying at that moment, like you said, it "triggers" Montag. He remembers what he had with Mildred but now its gone.
DeleteI think Montag always cared about Mildred and because of their lack of knowledge, true love was never found. This takes me back to when Montag thinks about not crying at her death and says,"a silly empty man near a silly empty woman" (44). Because the lives of both Mildred and Montag was so mundane, their love for one another never developed to become more than the sympathy we try to share with helpless strangers. It was the least Montag could do to remember where he met Mildred. Bradbury calling her Millie at this point familiarizes this "empty" woman to the reader as a way of emphasizing Montag's need for closure and love.
Delete"Welcome back from the dead" (150).
ReplyDeleteThis ironic greeting that Granger gives to Montag displays that Montag's comeback into a whole, meaningful life. I feel like Montag as been under the control of the government for so long and followed all their commands, just like a robot. He's been like a robot in a way because he never really thought much or had feelings. These factors were all foreign to him. However now, he is experiencing feelings and is thinking, like and alive person. I was able to make a connection with Bradbury's referral to butterflies throughout this novel. Bradbury associates the imagery of a buttery with the burning of books. I saw the concept of rebirth and transformation being foreshadowed. That is what happens to Montag in the end. He metamorphose into a new life and transforms into a new person, just like a butterfly. The men that Montag has met have the ability to recover all the words of books they have read composes them living passage to the dead. They joyfully identify themselves to Montag by the names of dead authors. The remains of the past contained in the books give these men various lives, identities, and chances for metamorphosis. In Montag's new life, there are three things that Faber told him were necessary to lead a whole, meaningful life: being vulnerable to nature and the world of books, leisure to think, and the privilege to act. Montag will now lead a life worth living.
I also agree with you that Montag has been under the control of the government for the longest and he can be referred to as a robot. I also agree with you that if Montag follows the advice that Faber gave him, he would have a highly successful future.
Delete"It doesn't matter what you do, he said, so long as you change something from the way it was before you touched it into something that's like you after you take your hands away."(157)
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me the most out of the other lines in the final part. Although Montag has spend all of his life doing something he tried to force himself to love, he never really got to leave a mark on the world around him until Clarisse came into his life. He never had time to create and develop Only destroy. The government stole his chance to help their society by controlling their citizens every hour of the day. They slowly stop the emotions that are need to be unique and individual and made everyone the same. Although the people never got their chance to leave behind something meaningful, the government got to get rid of all meaningful things. Montage will forever work towards leaving a mark that will help the world become beautiful and amazing, instead of gray and empty.
I had to read the next line in order to fully understand this quote. The next line was "The difference between the man who just cuts lawns and a real gardener is in the touching, he said. The lawn-cutter might just as well not have been there at all; the gardener will be there a lifetime". It relates back to the part where say how he never really has the opportunity to make a mark on the world. The lawn-cutter was there to cut the lawn, but the gardener dedicated his life to gardening. Montag was there as a fireman just to burn book. However, he later became a fireman that reads and cherishes these books. After he found out about Clarisse's death, he kind of morphed her in him and she became a part of him even after she died.
DeleteI totally agree with you. We can also say that the government is burning away those very things that people wanted to leave. Authors write books to leave it to someone else, to tell a story, to keep a story alive and so it can be passed down generation to generation. People do not write stories for them to be forgotten. I think its terrible that the government actually does such a terrible thing like burn peoples thoughts and stories because thats a part of them. Even though they may be dead, that story still exists, the thought still exist. But once you burn the remainders it will only be generations before the thought is forgotten.
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ReplyDelete"Montag, falling flat, going down, saw or felt, or imagine he saw or felt the walls go dark in Millie's face, heard her screaming, because in the millionth part of time left, she saw her own face reflected there, in a mirror instead of a crystal ball, and it was such a wildly empty face, all by itself in the room, touching nothing, starved and eating of itself, that at last she recognized it as her own and looked quickly up at the ceiling as it and the entire structure of the hotel blasted down upon her, carrying her with a million pound of brick."
ReplyDeletethis section has so many oxymorons. i love the language in this book, it all comes out in this paragraph the way he says "starved and eating of itself"is so weird yet beautiful i think it means that the world wanted to see and be with its self yet it could not. or the line "such a wildly empty face" where u can't be wild and empty. but we have seen a lot of the word empty now with wild its not so grey anymore.
"We know all the damn silly things we've done for a thousand years and as long as we know that and always have it around where we can see it, someday we'll stop making the goddamn funeral pyres and jumping in the middle of them" (163).
ReplyDeleteThis passage was incredibly meaningful to Bradbury's overall message about society and human nature. In a healthy society, people understand their mistakes, and grow from them so that they can have a better, more wholesome future. In a healthy society, people would avoid jumping into the funeral pyres they built for themselves, whereas in an unhealthy society, like the society in "Fahrenheit 451," the people would keep on jumping into the funeral pyres without any conscience or notion that what they were doing was unproductive and idiotic. With the absence of knowledge in a sick and rather dumb society like the one Montag lives in, people keep on making the same silly mistakes without learning from them, since there's absolutely no record of any mistakes even existing. What Bradbury is trying to say is that healthy, desirable societies cultivate themselves from records of having slipped up at times; having done things that humans do very easily, and very naturally as well. Living and acting like people is something that no society can go without, as long as the society grows from what its people have done wrong. Montag's society hadn't grown from what it had been for many years, since learning, not only from mistakes but in general, was banned. It's impossible to be transformed into something better without even acknowledging the things that are clearly wrong. Censorship is the blockade between growth, and being stuck in an unprogressive ditch. Montag, Granger, Faber, and all the rest of them were in the process of shoveling society out of that ditch; in the process of preventing everyone from blindly flailing themselves into the funeral pyre. Montag was starting to rebirth society, just as the phoenix did after it threw itself into the flames. With the help of Montag and everyone else, society was being retransformed into something better, into something that learned and acknowledged and knew things that could keep a conversation stimulating and entertaining. As the book ended, Montag was in the midst of creating a phoenix that would learn from the same silly thing it did beforehand.
Clara, I totally agree how the quote resembles how in a society people make mistakes and reconcile from them. But, I think this also relates to how in Montagu's society people never make mistakes because they follow everything the government says. They never commit those mistakes because they are so afraid to take the overarching risks that can really change their lives.
Delete"And if there were, it would be related to the great sloth which hangs upside down in a tree all day every day, sleeping its life away. To hell with that,' he said, 'shake the tree and knock the great sloth down on his ass," (157)
ReplyDeleteOne thing that really entertained me about the ending of Fahrenheit 451 was the amount of symbolism Bradbury uses in the word choice he chooses to end it off. The words he uses don't just reveal a big idea quickly, you had to really think critically on what it really meant. This quote in my opinion shows the idea of being different from society and not let society or in this case the government shape who you are and your personality. The phrases in this case that Bradbury uses in this quote really sum the idea all up. Phrases such as the sleeping sloth on the tree and knocking the sloth on his ass. The sleeping sloth on the tree resembles the thousands of people in the city that follow the ideas and the brainwashing of the government. The government is basically the tree in this phrase. Knocking the sleeping sloth on its ads portrays the people who actually read and have out of the box ideas to knock the brainwashing and the norms down and show the rest of the city your difference in society. Specifically referring to Montag, it relates to him because he wants to be different in society but he wants to secretly because of the government's rules.
"I'll hold on to the world tight someday. I've got a finger on it now; that's a beginning." (162)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it symbolized a new beginning for Montag. Although he is well into his life, he has been living in a very trapped society where he's barely allowed to be human. Now that he's out of his town, he can finally be free and discover who he truly is. There's really not a lot to say about this quote but it holds deep meaning and represents how Montag now has control over his life and who he can become. Now that Mildred is dead, for example, he no longer has a fake a 'love' for someone he barely even knew who was living with him for the majority of his lifetime. This also means that the government no longer monitors his actions 24/7, which means he is more secure and safe and can basically do whatever he wants. Lastly, this means that he can enjoy nature, and he understands that nothing is truly perfect...and if it is, there's something truly wrong that's not being revealed to the general public.
I agree with everything that you are saying. However I also feel that Montag did start caring more about Mildred as he started to become more awake and realize the situation he was living in. Although I agree with you that he did not love Mildred, I believed that in his own way he cared for her. That is also a reason why it was so important that in the end he could remember where he meet Mildred. So he could remember what having very little knowledge could do to the people you end up caring about.
DeleteI love how you made the connection to a new beginning for Montag, and especially the last part. I agree with you about the fact that if nothing can be truly perfect, and if it is, then there id probably something wrong with it. The society thought that everything was truly perfect when in reality, there were many things wrong with it. Towards the very end of the book, Granger says how even when people have books to read and learn from, we still make the same mistakes. I think what granger is saying is very close towards what you are saying. He is saying that even when they get what they want and look at as being perfect (to be allowed to have and read books) it is not ever truly perfect.
DeleteI agree with everything you said. Montag is free, now that his society and previous life have essentially crumbled. However, I don't necessarily know if he is really happy yet. Montag still has a lot to fix in his world, and it definitely won't be easy to generate an entirely new, glistening, genuine society. However, with this new beginning symbolized by the burning of a past life, Montag is definitely free to do and think and feel as he pleases which, I think, in the end, will lead to him being an incredibly happy person. What society did to Montag put him in a skin tight cage, preventing him from being anything that wasn't engulfed in that cage. Society made Montag really depressed, actually, and he couldn't be who he really wanted to be, just like you said. Now that the society in "Fahrenheit 451" has been destroyed, it's time for Montag and his friends to develop a new one; one that can be better than the one that lived in the past, one that represents uniqueness and individuality and clear, distinct differences between people that show unity between diverse groups. Montag's old society was one that lacked variation; one that lacked any sign of specialness. Though the book doesn't give us a defined view on the future for Montag and the rest of his population, it foreshadows good things to come.
ReplyDelete“It’s strange, I don’t miss her, it’s strange I don’t feel much of anything,” said Montag. “Even if she dies, I realized a moment ago, I don’t think I’ll feel sad. It isn’t right. Something must be wrong with me”(155).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because in Montag’s society, they are trying to take aways the feelings of everyone. They replace feelings with technology, forced in front of them where they end up forgetting what they originally felt. This quote made it seem that society has done its job to Montag. Where Montag loses complete feelings for his own wife. Where he says that he doesn’t feel much of anything anymore. Out of many, Montag is someone who goes against society, picking up the ashes of the burnt history, and trying to put it back together again. However, it surprises me to see that society has risen upon Montag and makes him lose feelings as important as his wife.
“If not, well just have to wait. We’ll pass the books on to our children, by word of mouth, and let our children wait, in turn, on the other people. A lot will be lost that way, of course. But you cant make people listen” (153).
ReplyDeleteThis passage really stuck out to me because of the idea of “Patience” that comes with it. You would think that all the rebels or misfits or whatever you want to call them will be anxious to save everyone and get right into fixing the world, but they are not. All the people that Montag is traveling with are smart and patient because that’s what the books have given them, common sense. They know that they cant just go right into, rewriting books because there will be serious consequences that will endanger their whole plan. These are wise and knowledgeable people and so they are taking they're time and waiting for the right moment to pursue they're plan. They have the ability to think and make decisions, and I think this is a major theme in this book because the people living in this society have lost the ability to make decisions for themselves and Montag is constantly deciding which decision is the best decision. The decision of burning books was the governments , and who knows whether they actually thought out this plan. I mean what goes up must come down, and so when the government goes down whats going to happen next? What are the people going to learn from and strive from. Books are our only legitimate source of history and knowledge and we need them to move forward.
I agree with you Jason I think that because Montag and his companions are very wise and knowledgeable because they read books and obtain knowledge that is not exposed in the society. Also, this relates to the phrase “knowledge is power”, because when obtaining knowledge from books or any other source you become wiser and know more about what actually happens in the world/society. On the other hand, if you don’t read books and follow others and society you become ignorant and not knowledgeable which took place in the society Montag was living in.
DeleteI agree that there is an over-arching theme of decision making and thinking. I like how you interpreted this quote and connected it to a theme of the book. I think that the reason why these people are still alive is because of thinking, they knew that there was more to life than "talking with the family" and they had to run away to enjoy life. Montag and the group knew that they had to keep the books and help pass knowledge on to the next generations but not all at once or we can repeat the same mistakes. The small group of people are going to teach the next generation to think to stay alive.
Delete“I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I. That's where we met! I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago.” (160)
ReplyDeleteMontag said this as the city was getting destroyed and he was in the river. I think this symbolizes that as the technology disappeared, people began to think clearly and remember by themselves. When Montag was in the city and constantly surrounded by technology, neither he nor Mildred could remember where they first met. The place where you met your wife is an important moment in your life and should never be forgotten; on the other hand, the technology in this world has occupied them constantly to a point where they can’t remember one of the most important moments in their life. Technology was to blame because when it was destroyed, Montag could remember where they met again.
This quote stood out to me because Ray Bradbury intentionally made Montag remember where they first met as the technology was being destroyed. This immediate reaction shows how the technology took away the ability to think from the people.
I definitely agree with you. I really like how you said that the technology has taken away the ability and I think that it also has taken away the time to think and also the thought of thinking from people. Everyone is always so immersed in their walls that they don't even think about thinking. Also, the people spend so much time in front of their screens that they don't even have the time to think. They just go on from show to show, thoughtlessly.
DeleteI agree with the connection you made wholeheartedly. I want to add that the river also represents him leaving all he knew behind. All of the people and thing he knew were now gone, so Montag had to accept his new, nomadic lifestyle.
Delete"Better to keep it in the old heads, where no one can see it or suspect it. We are all bits and pieces of history and literature and international law." (152)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote really interesting because I think that it shows how once technology went too far ahead and left books behind, Granger and the people like him started from the beginning. Before there were books or technology, stories were passed down from parent to child by word of mouth. The stories were memorized by the kid and then passed down to their children. It is so intriguing to me how people in Montag's society have gone back to this ancient tradition. In their day and age they have endless amounts of technology, yet that are completely disregarding it. I think this is showing that when in an over technological society and the technology starts to take over, start back at the beginning.
I think this is interesting too because they say if we don't learn about history(books) we are doomed to repeat it. That is exactly what is happening they are repeating history because they don't know any better. There is always a point were to much of something is not it might be 1 too many or a million too many but at a point it is too much and in Montag's society thy have reached the point of too much technology.
DeleteI thought it was interesting how you say that once technology becomes too advanced there comes a point where reading and obtaining knowledge from literature seems less of a necessity, which then pushes society to start all over again(from the beginning). but it also made me think of how the people in montags society have become so dependent on technology that they have no idea how to be independent. instead they cluelessly follow any trend or rule society or the government tells them to. it also reminded me of the phrase what you don't know wont hurt you. but in this case their lack of knowledge is exactly what's hurting them. its causing them to make the same mistakes over and over again.
Delete"All of us have photographic memory, but spend a lifetime learning how block off the things that are really in there."(151)
ReplyDeleteThis passage really spoke to me when I first read it I stopped and reread it over and over again. What kept popping in my head was maybe everybody does have photographic memory but we have been taught to block off what's really in there. In the society Montag lives in has the type of government to tell them they are not allowed to use more then 10% of their brain. I don't think that the people are like robots but more like infants because robots have no brain. Infants in the other hand do have a brain, they just don't know any better and slowly they develop to know what's right and what's wrong. Yet the government doesn't let people develop they don't let them get smarter they don't let them learn. They are just like kids without books or any learning ability, they are going to follow whatever they tell them to do. Another example is how kids are attracted to color just how Mildred said about the television with all the colors. Society has them living like children that can't make decisions for themselves. If you are an adult you know what's right and wrong being an adult really doesn't matter about age it's more about if you can act like one. At the end of the the novel you can see Montag is acting like an adult and thinking for himself.
I completely agree with your point. I feel like the people of this society are babies being closed off from what they need to learn. Even the way that they hold a conversation, reminds me of watching my two year old cousins speak. They are using real words but do not know how to use them to create meaning. You can't be mad at the citizens when they are doing what they were taught to do: be loyal and agree. I was surprised that this many people found each other and created a movement in such a controlling society. I also couldn't overlook the fact that the ideas in this book are quite dated by lack of the working women. Mildred does nothing and Granger's revolution seems to be full of guys. I think the complexities of this society reflects the way our government runs hings today.
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ReplyDelete“Mr.Lincoln” (151)
ReplyDeleteThe use of this name itself stood out to me because people usually refer to Abraham Lincoln as just that or President Lincoln. It seems weird to refer to the man who abolished slavery in America as a mister. I don’t think this is the first time that Abraham Lincoln has been referred to as that. I think this society has removed themselves from their history as they have burned the books. As more generations pass without the teachings of history, the less people are curious about their ancestors. Eventually, the present is all we care about and our actions follow a very bland schedule. This may be the reason why the rebels of this society all have someone they remember; Clarisse had her wise uncle, Granger had his wise grandfather, and Montag had Clarisse and Faber.
I completely agree with you. I also recognized that same point you made in the end, about the rebels having someone they remember. It seems that the people they remembered are also the people who influenced their views on the life they're living, and are the reason as to why they're rebels in the first place. It's interesting to see how all it takes is just one person to change you, whether it be from their words or their actions. Clarisse, Montag, and Granger were all influenced by words and actions in the end. Books erase any trace of influential words, and for that to be taken away, the society has no form of a "mentor" in a way, nothing to make them truly see.
Delete"The city stood, rebuilt and unrecognizable, taller than it had ever hoped or strived to be, taller than man had built it, erected at last in grouts of shattered concrete... then the city rolled over and fell down dead"(160).
ReplyDeleteThis interests me because of how Bradbury chose to describe the city in its last moments before it fell down. The phrase "rebuilt and unrecognizable" stands out to me because as we are viewing this in Montag's perspective, it might occur to him that the city he, and everyone in the society, once thought to be indestructible, is dying at that moment. It's a city almost unknown to him at this point because he doesn't view it with the same mind he had before. Adding on, this reveals a lot about what this government wanted to control; a society that aims for perfection will eventually fall due to its imperfections. The government shielded and distracted the public eye from the ongoing war. They were left unaware and ever more unprepared for their fate- nobody had seen it coming. It ties into the theme of ignorance vs. knowledge, and also what Granger mentioned to Montag: they were not to feel superior. That's exactly what the city wanted to be: to be superior, to be better, to be important. In the end, it was ruined, showing what it could never be: perfect.
"...but we've got one damn thing the phoenix never had. We know the damn silly thing we just did." (163)
ReplyDeleteThis line is said during Granger's long speech to Montag. He describes the phoenix, who is always killed and reborn by fire, and makes the same mistake over and over again because it starts anew every time. He contrasts that to humans, who have a documented history, yet still make horrible mistakes over and over again. In this world, however, it is much easier to repeat history, because of the burning of books. No one has knowledge of history (if they do it is incorrect or skewed). This means that the people of this world are doomed to make mistakes until something changes in their society.
I looked at this quote while reading as well and I thought the same things as you. Because this society has so little knowledge, they can not learn from the mistakes they committed in their past. However, I don't think that the lack of literature has all to do with the inability for the society to learn from their mistakes. I think that the government has a lot to do with it too. They seem very manipulative and they censor not just books, but also the news and they are able to convince people of things through the media.
Delete“And the war began and ended in that instant.”
ReplyDeleteThis reveals how quickly and easily this society can be destroyed through wars mentally and physically. This is because of how technologically advanced there society is when they put their trust in technology and when it overcomes and goes past humans and eventually gets out of hand. Also, the society had no feelings for one another or for anything which lead to the fact that there was no fear in wars and people dying and chaos. Adding on to that, as commonly described by Montag the society and the people living in the society were so empty and gray that life and death didn't matter much to the people, it was just the idea of feeling happy always and that there was no such thing as evil.
I think its interesting how your touching on the topic that society breaks and builds itself up so fast, maybe you could go into some more detail about when for example the society does this? I also find it interesting where you say that the society has no feelings and that therefor they can just forget about war so fast, it ended and began in that instant really proves that. Leading me on to say that I like the quote you decided to use for you passage.
Delete"Montag looked at the river. We'll go on the river. He looked at the old railroad tracks. Or we'll go that way. Or we'll walk on the highways now, and..someday..it'll come out of our hands after it sets in us a long time, it'll come out our hands and our mouths. And a lot of it will be wrong, but just enough of it will be right" (161).
ReplyDeleteThis quote revealed a lot about Montag in my opinion. At the beginning of the quote it shows the same Montag the reader has known. He is indecisive, wants to do something but doesn't know what, the same way he wants to go somewhere but doesn't know where to go. Later in the quote though, I feel it shows how Montag has transformed from a fake smiling sad fireman to a man who wants change. He looks on the bright side here, not super optimistic, but he sees something bright in the future. He states that "someday..it'll come out our hands and our mouths." then he went on to say that "some of it may be wrong, but enough of it will be right". This statement shows he has a glimmer of hope which is definitely a change in his character throughout the novel.
What stood out to me the most at the end of the novel was when they were at the river and Montag said, “My wife’s back there. It’s strange, I don’t miss her, it’s strange I don’t feel much of anything, even if she dies, I realized a moment ago, I don’t think I’ll feel sad. It isn’t right. Something must be wrong with me.”(155)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is important because Montag is referring to his wife Mildred and is claiming he doesn’t miss her in anyway and that he finds it as abnormal not to have feelings for her. I think this is proves he doesn’t have feelings for her because he left Mildred behind in the city, as him and friends ran long past the river.
"I remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I. That's where we met! I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago." (160).
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me. Here Montag is remembering where he and Millie first met. Not only is this remarkable because of their initial conversation on this this subject in the beginning of the book, but Montag also reveals the true love he has for Mildred. Furthermore, what causes Montag to display these feelings for Mildred is his thoughts of Mildred dying because of the bombs he hears in the city. This is even crazier because Montag was just thinking about how he woudn't feel anything if Mildred died. Yet, here he is all of a sudden remembering where they first met when at first he had no clue.
I agree that Montag has true love for Mildred. He thinks about her during the last moments of the bomb, knowing that he might die and his last thought would be of her. He wants to ignore Mildred, to pretend she doesn't exist because she doesn't think, but he loves her too much to forget.
DeleteGranger looked into the fire, "Phoenix"
ReplyDelete"What?"
"There was a silly damn bird called a phornic back before christ evrey few hundred years he build a pyre and burnt himself up. He must have been first cousins with man, but every time he burnt himself up, he sprung out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again. And it looks like we're doing the same thing. (Pg: 163)
This quote is at the near end of the book... and I think it sums up the book perfectly. The quote is really beautiful and poetic... it talks about a majestic creature and then relates a doomed society to it... I really like the way Ray Bradbury says, "every time he got back up, looks like we're doing the same thing." This quote really made me realize something I never really though of before. That this is so true to whats happening right now. The whole world gets in big wars over nothing really... they just find excuses to hate each other and make people unhappy, when all fails the people rebuild themselves and the cycle continues. I just found it so interesting that even though Ray Bradbury, wrote the book in the 1940's he was still able to predict the future so well, from the cycle that has been happening in his lifetime... because really this cycle has been going on forever if you think about it. Another thing I want to touch base on is, that fact that Ray Bradbury decides to use a phoenix as the animal he talks about. Phoenix is an animal obviously related to fire... the whole animal is basically made out of fire. Yet usually when Ray Bradbury talks about fire related things, there in the loom of destruction that's about to happen. Yet in this part of the book he's talking about fire that breaks itself down and builds itself up again. I think that Ray Bradbury is symbolizing that everything is coming together for Montag and that is finally finding meaning in his life.
"'Don't judge a book by it's cover' someone said. And they laughed quietly, moving down stream" (155).
ReplyDeleteThis quote is special because it says "don't judge a book by it's cover" which is ironic because in this society, for books that is what they do. When they burned books because it caused a disturbance in the public it was not just those books, they burned all books including William Shakespeare plays, which never offended anybody. They judge books by their covers in that way, if it is a book that reflects someone's opinions or thoughts they will burn it.
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ReplyDelete"Everyone must leave something behind when he dies, my grandfather said. A child or a book or a painting or house or a wall built or a pair of shoes made. Or a garden planted. Something your hand touch someway so your soul have someone to go when you die, and when people look at that tree or the flower you planted, you're there. It doesn't matter what you do, he said, so long as you change something from the way it was before you touched it into something that's like you after you take your hands away. The difference between the man who just cuts lawns and the real gardener is in the touching, you said. The lawn cutter might just as well not have been there at all; the gardener will be there a lifetime." (156)
ReplyDeleteThis quote goes back to the feeling of wanting to be remembered and of having purpose throughout your lifetime. However in this world, that is neglected and no one really cares about anything real, but such as having a child is kind of a "have to" to continue life. I like how he emphasizes on things that really matter and that help a person grow, or that grow themselves. A child, a book, nature. They each help form people and change their opinions. They are each important and hold strong meanings. He especially explained further about a lawn cutter and a gardener, which makes sense because the gardener added the trees, planted them, gave them a place to grow. A cutter just comes and trims it. It's like with the people. The government just came and cut off their knowledge, but the people from the past helped them grow, or had them. On the other hand, what are these men doing? They are going to pass on the books they memorized onto the next generation. That is something they will hold onto, even if they are not a physical thing, it is still important despite the fact they said "they are not important". I hope they lead the future generation out of the Dark ages.
How will you affect this world?
"And on either side of the river was there a tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month; And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations" (165).
ReplyDeleteThis is a quote from Revelations, a part of the Bible that Montag memorized. I really liked this quote because the symbolism is very clear. A tree is often compared to life, connectedness, and knowledge. In this sense, it represents Montag's desire to spread his knowledge to everyone he could, just like a tree who yearns to spread their roots and grow. Another, more direct connection to a tree would be how the leaves of the tree were meant to heal the nations. The bands of knowledgeable men who roam the the country seek to heal others, they are leaves of the tree of knowledge. This quote also shows time, with the reference to months and the number twelve. This made me think about the passage of time in the book, and made me realize that Montag's rebellion was over in a matter of 4 days. The last symbol was water, because the tree of knowledge needs a river to grow next to. Montag needed to accept both water and fire to have a balance of knowledge and secrecy at the end of the book.