What are your initial reactions to the novel so far? Did any of your predictions come true so far? What is your take on Guy Montag? Clarisse? Mildred? Bradbury's writing style?
Choose a passage, and write your thoughts. You don't have to answer all of those questions-- they are just ideas to get you going. You can ask your own question and try to answer it, make a connection, or deliberate on a BIG idea that you see emerging. It's up to you.
Just make sure that you include the passage, page number, and your thoughts/questions/reflection. Also, make sure that you respond to someone else's comment.
So far, Fahrenheit 451 has been very much like Catcher in the Rye, and Veldt. One part that I found very Hypocritical is when Guy Montag is talking with Mr. McClellan about how firefighters burn the houses instead of rescuing them. This very ironic because in our society, firefighters put out fires, not start them. I find this very interesting, because when Mr. McClellan asks if it is true that fire fighters used to put out the fires, Guy is very surprised that he would even think that and is very quick to inform him that that is just a myth. It is not that hard to find the irony in this, or what Mr. McClellan asks him shortly before. He asks if he had ever reads the books that he burns. I am able to see the connection between this book and Catcher in the Rye because of all the irony; in Catcher in the Rye, there are many times where Holden acts hypocritical. For instance, Holden hates when people follow social norms, but acts mean to people that do not follow them either. This has also been like Veldt because after the Guy has the conversation with Mr. McClellan, there was talk about how bill boards had to get bigger in order for people in race cars to see them. This relates to Veldt because in the short story, part of the messege was about how technology could get too over powering and we need to find the balance. This is true as well in the book; when the people in the ambulance come but they are not M.D.'s it is very surprising but we find out that they do not need to be because of the technology.
ReplyDeleteI really like the connection you made between the three stories. I see similarities between Fahrenheit 451 and The Veldt, but I never thought of the connection between Fahrenheit 451 and Catcher in the Rye. While there are similarities, I think the protagonists are different. Guy seems to accept his surroundings much more than Holden does. However, both characters do seem to have some mental health issues.
DeleteAlthough I do not follow your connection between the three passages, I love how you elaborated on the “fireman” aspect of the novel and on how fireman in our society actually “put out fires”. I think we can go even deeper into this conversation and talk about the symbolic message of a fire. A fire is a dangerous thing that spreads and is hard to control, and the fact that in this novel the officials start fires shows what type of society they are living in. Maybe it shows that society is corrupt and the idea of burning books and having technology do everything grew/ spread so fast that its impossible to stop it without catastrophe (just like fire).
DeleteVery good point in the end there. This is just another example of how Bradbury shows the domination of technology over human intelligence and skill. In the Veldt we also see that technology takes over people because it can replace them and their jobs. The people don't realize this, but they are just losing their purpose in life by having technology take their jobs and skills, and doing it for them. I think maybe you could've added a little bit more about how the technology is dominating humans in life. But great examples too.
Delete"Someone else just jumped off the cap of a pillbox. Call if you need us again. Keep her quiet... so long." (16)
ReplyDeleteIn this passage, the distant relationship between the "doctors" and the patient shocked me. To add to that, they weren't even doctors, just technicians that could work the machine. The world this novel is set in is clearly one where technology has overtaken human skill. If a doctor wasn't needed for a case this serious, how does anyone have any work that is of value? It seems that Guy Montag sees how poorly the technicians treat him and his wife, but he was used to it. The society they live in has them convinced that technology should do all these jobs, and that human contact is no longer necessary. I think he wouldn't have thought twice about his interaction with the technicians if he hadn't met Clarisse. She opened his eyes to the issues of the world they live in, in there very brief conversation.
I agree with you. I think that what Guy needs to do throughout this novel, is find a balance between the technology, and the value of a human and what they can bring to the table. In the time period that this book is set in, the doctors seem to be very casual throughout the time where they are needed of assistance. I think that as the novel progresses, Guy will slowly chart to change and see how technology can not over power the value of a human.
DeleteI also think it's really interesting how you pointed out that relationship between the "doctors" and the patient because I was also really interested in that scene. I was shocked to hear it happened so often that "someone else just jumped off the cap of a pillbox" but it just shows how ignorant people are in this society. They blindly take these sleeping sedatives, which are clearly not safe, and end up drugging themselves but it's thrown off as a casual event. People like Mildred barely even realize what they've done the next morning and they just continue to take these pills because everyone does, and the government probably supports it. I can see now that this whole set-up is really dangerous because if the government allows it be that easy for someone to jump off a "pillbox" then it's just as easy for them to die from an overdose on anything. This just goes to show that being uneducated and kept in the dark can be very harmful because you can hurt yourself and do terrible things without even knowing it.
DeleteI agree with you fully and I believe that Guy just has to much technology in his life. The more machines the more technology the less people actually communicate and talk to other humans. Like a doctor would usually ask how your day was and are you feeling better but in the novel they just seem not to care at all like if they have no feelings at all.
DeleteI like what you said about the doctors becoming technicians. With all the technology of the future, the human element is taken out. People don't even talk to each other. Even doctors, who are supposed to be relatable, kind and empathetic, have been replaced by machines, and the tech support that operates the machines. In this future, doctors are little better than cable men or tv repairmen
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"He was not happy..He wore his happiness like a mask and the girl had run off across the lawn with the mask and there was no way of going to knock on her door and ask for it back."-page 9
ReplyDeleteEven though this passage was fairly early in the reading, it gave me a lot of valuable insight to Guy Montag as a character. From this quote, I could see by the way Montag described his happiness as a “mask” that the initial description of him as a tough fireman, burning literature left and right, was not the true him at all. Once he started to talking to Clarisse and saw her “run off across the lawn with his happiness” it was clear to me that his life was lacking a purpose; a reason to be happy. Montag is a “fireman” meaning he burns books and that seems to be all he knows, he’s not even aware that there was a point in time where a “fireman” was someone who put out fires. Montag’s job is essentially to keep people and himself ignorant, because he’s mindlessly burning books that neither he nor anyone else even stops to read. Without books, literature and creativity and most importantly free thought, life can easily become meaningless as it has for Montag. People need to have a drive, a purpose, something to fuel them through the day. Montag needs to find his purpose, and it seems right now that he only way he can find it is by talking to Clarisse and learning to look deeper into why the government’s having him burn these books. Furthermore, this adds to the bigger idea of government dominance, and how many aspects of the society in the book seem to be controlled by the government. Each day, more and more books are burned and people hardly even think about it. Words can be a powerful weapon, and when the government is pouring words into the people’s minds and keeping them from reading books it keeps them in the dark about reality and they have to obey the government and agree with them because it becomes all they know how to do. Freedom of thought, speech, and press are basic human rights and without them, society becomes a blur of bias and blindly following authority.
I love how you connected the quote to Montag as a character, and then to the government and society. I agree that this line revealed a lot about Montag and helped us understand the people living in the world of Fahrenheit 451 a little bit more. Referring to happiness as a mask shows its fabrication and impermanence, and the fact that Clarisse is the one who "stole it" reveals her ability to find the truth. I was surprised when the operators said, "we get these cases nine or ten a night," speaking of Midred's attempted suicide. I was wondering why there were so many, and if all of these people had only masks of happiness too.
DeleteI totally agree with you. Montag wants to keep his place in society. He's very respected and never really thought outside the box. However, with Clarrise, maybe he can learn new things. Furthermore, I love your analysis of Montag's character. He's on a quest to find his identity. Clarisse removes Montag’s mask of happiness, when doing so, he has to face the deeper truth of his situation. I feel like Montag can channel Clarisse in way and maybe she can show him the everything of the natural world.
Delete"He drove forty miles an hour and they jailed him for two days. Isn't that funny, and sad too?" (9).
ReplyDeleteThis along with many other quotes such as the burning of books, blank walls, and empty rooms all led me to believe that this book takes place in a despotic environment. To burn books is to burn knowledge and if you burn all the books in the world, eventually the only sense of history or knowledge people would get is what others tell them. Reading books also gives you a sense of individuality and allows you to think outside the box. My initial thought on this quote is that “fireman” and other officials don't want people going slow on highways because they don't want them to see the city and take time to ponder about its magnificent views. They don't want people to feel anything or question anything. It seems as though the officials want everyone to be the same and have no sense of individuality and thats why peoples walls are blank and there is nothing in their rooms. I think this is absurd! And then not even to give Clarisee’s uncle a warning but to jail him right away. This is a society that even though most people want to avoid, many people will fall into without knowing.
I agree with you that in this dystopian world, the people are losing their individuality without knowing what is happening. I also think that without books people can't read stories and everyone will have their own interpretation on how it would look if it was in real life. Along with speedy highways, burning books help destroy people's individuality.
DeleteI think that Clarissa can see that and is trying to show Guy Montag that they are all losing their individuality. I don't think that everyone will lose their personality because we are all different and can't be forced to be the same.
I agree with you too Jason. I think that looking at the way books affect this particular society was a great detail to keen in on. Also, I partly agree with Az's response. I think that Clarisse is almost magnified in the story to reveal the oddities society. However, I don't think that she is necessarily trying to convince Guy Montag of anything. I believe that in their brief conversation with each other, Clarisse was just being herself. If she was trying to show Montag about something as complex as modern day society she wouldn't have changed the subject in their conversation in which she did.
DeleteI agree with you completely. This society has limited the boundaries for everyone; it doesn't allow for curiosity or new ideas. The fact that Clarisse's uncle was arrested merely for driving too slow is really preposterous. He was taking in things he found interesting, and calming and captivating, and was then arrested for doing so. This society has a strict policy of conforming to the exact expectations and normalities everyone takes part in. There is no originality. I really liked how you said they're destroying the only source of legitimate knowledge by burning books. The society in "Fahrenheit 451" is demolishing originality and history, just like you said.
DeleteI could not agree with you more. I feel like the idea of efficiency has taken over this society and the goal is to just get things done. The setting plays an interesting juxtaposition with Bradbury's writing style as he is in tune with every detail of his stories. Clarisse, I have found, is very similar to Holden in the fact that both teens see beyond their societies. On the other hand, Clarisse seems to be put together and wise beyond her years. Though, I wonder why she (and her uncle) are the sole people to not fall into the trap Guy has.
Delete"It was a pleasure to burn. It was a special pleasure to see things eaten, to see things blackened and changed. With the bras nozzle in his fists, the great python spitting venomous kerosene upon the world, the blood pounded in his head, and his hands were the hands of some amazing conductor playing all the symphonies of blazing and burning to bring down the tatters and charcoal ruins of history." (3)
ReplyDeleteWithin 5 seconds of reading the first page of the book I was already overwhelmed. I could pick a million other quotes just like this one because basically every page is a different series of emotions. This quote stood out to me because with just this one quote I started to understand what the flames symbolize. The literal meaning is that Guy is a fireman and he lights houses on fire (because that's apparently what firemen do now) but symbolically the flames mean much more. To me, the flames represent Guy's life. On the outside he may seem like a happy, confident fireman but on the inside he is filled with anger and sadness for some reason and doesn't know how to express it. This connects to another quote on page 4, "Montag grinned the fierce grin of all men singed and driven back by flame...Later, going to sleep, he would feel the fiery smile still gripped by his face muscles, in the dark. It never went away, that smile, it never went away, as long as he remembered." (4) This is an indication that his life is filled with negative thoughts and feelings.
Although Montag is perfectly content with acting as though he is happy, he can not ignore how he feels in the late night in the dark. I agree that the fire symbolizes his life however , to me the fire symbolizes how he covers up his feelings. When then the flames are alive and blazing he is also alive and feeling happy and content. However, like the fire when it stops, you are left with charred remains that are damaged and useless. When Montage has burned through the 'happiness' he claims to feel, he is left with the truth of how he feels and is forced to think about why he feels this way.
Delete"He saw himself in her eyes, suspended in two shining drops of bright water, himself dark and tiny, in fine detail, the lines about his mouth, everything there, as if her eyes were two miraculous bits of violet amber that might capture and hold him intact" (7).
ReplyDeleteGuy Montag’s enjoys his job as a fireman who burns books and takes great pride in it. Montag loves the smell of kerosene and describes its to Clarisse as “perfume.” The society taking place in this novel has abandoned books as a way to entertain themselves. Montag is seen as a respected figure his society, and Clarisse’s lack of respect of his authority is a way she sets herself as an outcast from the general culture. I view Clarisse’s character as a curious and considerate person. She frustrates Montag because she questions his deep inherent beliefs. A world where reading, carefully driving slowly to take in the surroundings, and walking outside for long periods of time is forbidden and a honest conversations are uncommon, Clarisse’s interest in nature and people is seen very oddly. She shows Montag all the small features of the natural world, and she realizes that Montag has the potential to be an individual thinker, just like her. For instance, the moment when she was describing the dew drops on the grass and the man on the moon, Montag didn’t say anything because he doesn't like the idea of how he never realized this before. Before they met, Montag’s knowledge with nature was narrowed down to his interest with fire. However, with Clarisse, I feel that he can see things that he never bothered to understand.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBradbury's writing style is very unique and it took me a few pages of Fahrenheit 451 to begin to follow along. There are so many layers of knowledge that he is trying to relay that it gets a little overwhelming at times, and I am still working on analyzing each passage to find the deeper meaning that Bradbury is trying to get across to his readers. In the very first part of the book, Guy Montag seems content with his job, hence the fiery smile that "never ever went away, as long as he remembered" (4). However, Clarisse asked his if he was happy and later, Montag admits to himself and the readers that he really isn't (12). I have taken great interest in Clarisse, and I believe she will be the the person who gets Montag to see how wrong his job of burning books is. Even when they first meet, I believe she tries to make him understand how ignorant people how conform to society are:
ReplyDelete"I sometimes think drivers don't know what grass is, or flowers, because they never see them slowly...My uncle drove slowly on a highway once. He drove forty miles an hour and they jailed him for two days" (9).
It must be normal for people to drive fast in the world that Montag and Clarisse live in, and they just assume they know what things are or how things are just because they see the color or vague outline of it as it flashes by. This hints at a society where the government doesn't want people to know what really goes on, and tries to cover things up by making something seem like something it isn't. And when people drive too fast by it, they can't tell the difference. Clarisse wants Montag to slow down and realize that burning books is wrong. Still, she warns of what might happen if he does that by referencing her uncle's arrest. Her uncle did something out of the ordinary and if Montag does the same, there will be consequences. This relates back to conformity in society, which often comes into play in sci-fi books. We have our main character who starts off following the norm, but then begins to question it, in this case with the help of Clarisse. Then they must catch the attention of the others engrossed in the social norms, oblivious to the misdeeds, and driving too fast to realize what's right in front of them.
I agree with you and I can see that conforming to society/adhering to social norms is a big theme in Fahrenheit 451, which is also a big theme in Catcher in the Rye but the difference is that in C.I.T.R, written as in NYC present society, people have the power to chose whether or not they conform to society. Whereas in Fahrenheit 451, conforming to society is more of a forced lifestyle and less of choice. Everyone like Montag is raised on certain principals by the government, such as the idea of what a “fireman” is and the information they're fed grooms them into part of society like cogs in a machine. Clarisse seems strange and a little dangerous to Montag because for some reason, she wasn't raised on those same beliefs and ideas he was. She's actually has real conversations. It's interesting how even though Clarisse strays from social norms/society which is not typical, Montag didn't even really seem to realize how engrossed in society he was until he started talking to her because everything he knows is what society and the government have told him. Like what you said, he's adhering to what's 'normal' and following the crowed which blinds him to how by following all these norms and being ignorant by burning books, he's really serving the government not himself.
Delete" He felt his smile slide away, melt, fold over and down on itself like tallow skin, like the stuff of a fantastic candle burning to long and now collapsing and now blowing out. Darkness. He was not happy." (p.12)
ReplyDeleteAlthough this is only on the twelve page, it feels as though it has come from much farther in the book. Montage is a Firemen with a simple purpose, to start fires and stop people from reading and learning from books.However when Montage gets homes and is safe within the darkness of his home, He admits to himself that he is not not happy. Montage lives in a society were he has to pretend to be happy with the job he has although he knows deep inside that he was not truly happy. Montage revealed to himself that he was not happy while he was in the dark for a several reasons. He admitted to himself to not being happy in the dark because in the dark no one can see you. He did not want to let anyone else know or realize that he is unhappy because it would be accepted in this society. When he was walking home with Clarisse he felt uncomfortable and shocked by her thoughts on the way people are living now, verses how they use to live. He knows allowing other people to know that he is feeling different about the way he lives will case other to not only feel afraid of him for being a fireman, but also feel uneasy or uncomfortable around him as well. Although he says that for as long as he could remember he had that fierce grin, when was walking with Clarisse, he allowed her to open his eyes to the emotion that has been building inside of him.
"It was a pleasure to burn. It was a special pleasure to see things eaten, to see things blackened and changed. With the bras nozzle in his fists, the great python spitting venomous kerosene upon the world, the blood pounded in his head, and his hands were the hands of some amazing conductor playing all the symphonies of blazing and burning to bring down the tatters and charcoal ruins of history."
ReplyDeleteI was fascinated with the language in the book. with the line " the great python spitting venomous kerosene upon the world" the python symbolizes the hose, we think of a hose spitting water yet its so ironic how a thing that should save the world from fire is doing the opposite.Or when he says " see things get eaten" eaten is such a strange word for burning beauty. Also just in the first few pages you see Guy change immediately.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete“I like to smell things and look at things, and sometimes stay up all night, walking and watching the sun rise.” (7)
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because it is very unusual for a seventeen year-old to do these things and think this way. When Guy Montag first saw her he said, “the dark eyes were so fixed to the world that no move escaped them.” This is the opposite of how Guy lives his life because he typically does his job, goes home and does the same thing every day. As Guy and Clarisse were walking, she asked him if he knew anything about what the past was like and if he had ever read a book. As she left, she asked him if he was happy.
The first thing that stood out was whether he had read any of the books he burned, and he said no because that was illegal. I think that the reason that books are illegal in this dystopian world is because the government or the person in charge is trying to get people to lose their individuality without them knowing. They force people to burn books for a living because books let people imagine different things and think different thoughts about the book. By burning the books people lose traits that shape their personalities.
Clarisse seems to see this and tries to show Guy what is happening by asking if he was happy. Guy thinks about it and realizes that he isn’t. He realizes that his happiness was a mask and she took it away from him. I think that Clarisse also showed him the truth of what is happening and Guy is going to try to stop doing his job of burning books so that people can their unique personalities back again.
Az, I think what you're saying is really interesting about how Clarisse is trying to show Guy the truth. I was thinking that maybe Clarisse is a character at this point in the novel just to help the readers get a hold of how brainwashed Guy is and how he thinks he is always happy and that he should never read just because some superior figure thinks that he shouldn't.
DeleteI completely agree with you Jonah and Az, I think when Clarisse asks Guy this question it's probably the first time that he has to think outside of his daily life. He is faced with the true question of happiness but when he thinks about it he can't say yes to her. This quote probably means that he needs to fix something in his life because he probably doesn't feel satisfied the way he is.
Delete"Happy! Of all nonsense. He stopped laughing . . . Of course I'm happy. What does she think? I'm not?" (10).
ReplyDeleteThis quote seemed very interesting to me. First off, I found it very interesting that Montag was questioning his happiness due to a 3-5 minute conversation with Clarisse, whom he just met. This reveals the power or even importance of Clarisse in the story. It was astonishing to me to see that Montag was so deeply affected by the conversation because in reality, Clarisse wasn't intentionally trying to convince Montag of anything. She was just being herself which happens to include being very observant (noticing the cars rushing by fowers, watching sunset, seeing 451 on Montag's jacket, etc.). Overall, I just found it very interesting that Clarisse had the infuence on Montag in which she revealed. I wonder if this is the first time that Montag has witnessed the thoughts and ideas that Clarisse presented. If it is what makes Carisse different from society? In other words, what causes Clarisse to question society? I know that many people have posted about the books being burned and that being a way to destroy "individuality." And I wonder if this has any impact on the ideas of both Clarisse and Montag. Do books have that much of an impact on society?
The book is about a very different world than ours and as Montag stated (what Clarisse's uncle said) that humans were like tissues, easily thrown away. Also the fact that he got arrested for doing things we do normally now is pretty surprising and show how dangerous it is.
DeleteIt is interesting how this teen was able to really get Montag thinking. In my opinion, Clarisse was trying to get Montag to think, right after she asked if he was a fireman, she started to want to make him realize what his life really is. Empty, yet full of darkness.This was led by the fact that she at the end ask him if he is happy.
"What?' asked Montag of that other self, the subconscious idiot that ran babbling at times, quite independent of will, habit, and conscience" (11)
ReplyDeleteBefore this, Montag had been reflecting on the quirky and slightly unusual things the girl, Clarisse McClellan, had said to him. He felt he had to monitor his thoughts afterwards, and based on other things he's done, it seems like that's a very large expectation society has for the average person. In the quote above, he calls the part of him thinking about Clarisse the "subconscious idiot that ran babbling at times, quite independent of will, habit, and conscience." Will, habit and conscience seem like qualities this society highly prioritizes for people to have. The society in "Fahrenheit 451," by the looks of it, rejects imagination and originality--a sign shown in the fact that they burn books that are authentic creative. From what I've read so far, Montag lives by the rules of society very strictly; he's never questioned authority or the way things are supposed to be, and by burning books, he thinks he's doing the world an enormous favor. I think that Clarisse has opened his eyes a little more, just by talking about little things that Montag found peculiar, like asking if he ever read the books he burned. Clarisse made Montag really think, and I think this will really affect his role as the story unfolds.
I really agree with you when you say that they live in a society where imagination and originality. I think that the society in Fahrenhiet 451 is very bogged down to basic elements of a society. Books are burned and its illegal to read them. I just find this interesting that you say that the society rejects these things because it really does. The society rejects peoples creativity and imagination. I guess this brings up the topic of why is the society rejecting creativity and imagination? I think its because the leaders are scared of creativity and imagination ruining order and conduct? Not having read to much of the book I wouldn't be able to say this for sure... but taking a wild guess this is what I would say.
Delete" 'Do you ever read any of the books you burn?'
ReplyDeleteHe laughed. 'That's against the law!' "
In this passage, we see how Guy Montag burns a bunch of books, and is completely satisfied with himself and what he is doing. When he encounters Clarrise, he talks about how reading the books he burns is illegal. This makes me ask the question, why is it illegal for him to be reading these books? Is there a certain censorship on these books that are subject to be burned? My prediction is that these books are being burned because common society believes that they aren't necessary and if they aren't necessary, they should get rid of them just in case of any damage they may possibly cause. Better to be 100% safe, than sorry. I believe this because in another part of the book, Bradbury writes about how two people who aren't Medical Doctors come out of an ambulance to help Guy's wife out. He asks them why they aren't M.D.s and the two men said, "all you need is two handymen to clean up a job like this," (15). This shows that in those days, you could have a handyman who knew how to operate a machine like this, and you could perform an operation. The domination of technology in this example amazes me. This leads back to my other analysis. Guy needs to burn the books because they are believed to not be necessary to society and have a censorship on them. This is because technology has taken over, and people don't need knowledge from these books because they have technology to do all their thinking and working for them.
I agree that people don't need knowledge anymore because of technology. Adding on to that, books need to be read with deeper thinking, as opposed to watching TV. The book shows us that the TV is very important to Helen and possibly to the rest of the world. Watching TV involves very little energy and thought so who ever is telling Guy to burn books might be protecting the people of really thinking and analyzing closely. Maybe because they don't want the people to figure out certain things that are going on in the world.
Delete"Strangers come and violate you. Strangers come and cut your heart out. Strangers come and take your blood."(16)
ReplyDeleteClearly this is not a life anybody wants to live in. Guy Montag sees it, and how poorly him and his wife are being treated but he doesn't do nothing about it he seems to be used to it. In the world they live in they believe technology should do all the work that us humans use to do. In this time period these people seem to have no heart they just have no care in the world for any other person around them. In their very short conversation Clarisse opened Guy's eyes to all of the problems going on in the world and how horrible this life has become.
I agree that this isn't a life that Guy Montag wants to live in. And I also believe that Guy uses his job as being a fireman, to burn things, helps him to relieve his problems. Discussing the problems going on in the world with Clarisse, who he has just recently met, also helps him relieve his problems because it helps him realize that he isn't the only one.
Delete"Is it true that long ago fireman put fires out instead of starting them?"
ReplyDelete"No. Houses have always been fireproof, take my word for it." (8)
So far Fahrenheit 451 has been very alike to other books and stories we have read in class this year. Especially the Veldt, which isn't surprising as they are both written by Ray Bradbury. In each one futuristic objects are introduced somewhat discreetly and both stories are a little difficult to follow up until this point. This specific passage though was an example of how Ray Bradbury leaves the reader to interpret certain things. We have no idea weather Guy Montag is telling the truth, could he be dismissing the question posed by Clarisse or is that the truth in this futuristic novel? I personally think he is dismissing the question since in the text the word always is italicized.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteQuote: " 'I don't kow anything any more,' he said, and let a sleep lozenge dissolve on his tongue. " (18)
ReplyDeleteWithin an hour, so many life changing things happened to him. This also ties into the world that he lives in. Just as fast as the cars go in the highway like Clarisse said, is how fast so many things could happen. In the beginning, he was a proud fireman that burned books just because it was against the law. He states, "it was a pleasure to burn," but after his encounter with Clarisse and her different mindset, he begins to question his life. After that a scene where his wife MiIdred tried to commit suicide. Is he really happy with his wife? His job? With this world? I see this realization a bit ironic, because a seventeen year old told a man who is thirty years old to how to life really was like. This ultimately left him to think, to start letting in "some light" (which he didnt want to in the beginning) and it left him lost.
So far, I wonder how Montag's and Clarisse's relationship will be like in the future. Will anything life changing happen again?
Question for you guys: How do you feel about Montag? Clarisse? MIldred?
Does he remind you of Holden?
For me:
-both feel alone
-both notice things around them
-both question things
-both go through some sort of depression or are lost
-both go through life changing experiences.
"He was not happy. He was not happy. He said the words to himself. He recognized this as the true state of affairs. He wore his happiness like a mask and the girl has run off across the lawn with the mask and there was no way of going to knock on her door and ask for it back"(12).
ReplyDeleteThis quote reminds me back to Catcher in the Rye, where Holden seems to hide his own identity of wanting to be someone who he can't show others. Where as in Fahrenheit 451, Guy Montag is a miserable person who is hiding his true identity under his mask of happiness. His job as a fireman is to burn books. "It's fine work. Monday burn Millay, Wednesday Whitman, Friday Faulkner, burn 'em to ashes, then burn the ashes"(8). Personally, it doesn't seem as "fine work" to burn books in to ashes and then burn the ashes again into ashes. I think that Guy Montag has a lot of anger inside with him with the society he is in, with the people who come to help Mildred who weren't even M.D. doctors to help his wife. So much that is inside of him where it was a pleasure to see things eaten, and to see things blackened and changed. All this anger that Guy has that makes making fires help him to escape it.
"How like a mirror, too, her face" (11)
ReplyDeleteGuy's fascination with Clarisse's different traits leads me to believe that she will become his guide through escaping a world of conformity. This quote stood out against all the others about Clarisse's because it's the first one that actually tells me about her. Guy thinks of her as a mirror, as someone who reflects the light towards himself and makes him think. However, when reading this line, all I could think of is how when looking at a mirror, you never pay attention to the mirror itself. You are so caught up in the reflection of yourself that the glass is ignored. I predict that Clarisse won't be looked at as herself but as the help to Guy.
Tabita, I agree completely! She's going to be a symbol for knowledge and Guy's change throughout the story, not truly a character. My question to you is this: what if she generates conflict with Guy? Will that be Guy's internal crisis or just bickering between two characters?
DeleteI strongly agree with your point. I would also like to add on that Clarisse is also someone that Montag has to 'figure out'. He calls her peculiar, which is showing hat he does not fully understand her. I agree with and like your point that he is using Clarisse as a 'reflection'. I didn't interpret it that way at first, but now I understand it better.
DeleteI really agree with everything you said. When you talk about when Guy compares her to a mirror and you talk about reflections it made me think about how that connects to the other ways he has described Clarisse. He constantly associates her with the color white. Generally, white reflects other colors, as does a mirror. I think that this shows that there is a strong correlation between his describing her as "white" and a mirror.
Delete“Montag was cut in half. He felt his chest chopped down and split apart ” (11).
ReplyDeleteDespite Guy Montag’s obvious distance with his wife, this quote shows us that he loves her. He goes on to wanting her to be different and to lying to her, but he still felt very heartbroken realizing that she would rather be dead than live with him. I thought the way Ray Bradbury illustrated Guy’s feelings about her attempted suicide was really interesting: he wrote “cut in half”, “split apart”, almost as if her being gone would take away a part of Guy. When two people really love each other, their feelings almost become one. Which is why I think that they used to be closer and have feelings for each other, and somehow, over the years, a wall was built between them. With the wall blocking them from expressing their feelings for each other, their feelings are still there.
I completely agree also, when the emergency guys come over to his place to “fix her”; he seems to be very worried about her and asks the guys why they don’t have an M.D. with them. Also, it was strange that during the scene with him and the girl, when she was rubbing a dandelion on her chin to see if she had love she did and he didn't. But, then he became upset at her and demanded that he had love as well and said that the dandelion was already used up by her.
Delete"You know, I'm not afraid of you at all" (7).
ReplyDelete"I rarely watch the 'parlor walls' or go to races or Fun Parks. So I've a lot of time for crazy thoughts, I guess" (9).
I like Fahrenheit 451 a lot so far, and this is why: Ray Bradbury introduces two very important character types right off the bat. Guy is the one who conforms to society, and Clarisse is the one who doesn't. I like this parallel because it can generate conflict between their opinions, and I'm sure that this will show up later.
Another reason I chose these quotes to write about is that Clarisse is a very different person from her description. Her whispering white dress, young pale face, and thin features made her seem to be about 9 or 10 years old, and very flimsy. However, she is seventeen and crazy. She is a strong person because she stands out from others by not going to Fun Parks and not being afraid of firemen. I think Clarisse is going to be a very important symbol for knowledge in this book, and will present a good opposition to Guy's conformist nature.
"He was not happy. He was not happy. He said the words to himself [...] He wore his happiness like a mask and the girl had run off across the lawn with the mask and there was no way of going to knock on her door and ask for it back"(pg 12)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because, I thought it was a good example on what the author was trying to show in the quote. It shows how Clarisse caused guy to question his own happiness, which caused him to soon realize it was false. Clarisse affected Guy extremely in the limited amount of time they were with each other. I feel like Clarisse really got Guys attention in all the things she was telling him that he's never heard of before. I think he was affected by her this way because she seemed to know a lot about her Society than he does. I also think when Clarisse came along and starts asking Montag these questions like if he was happy, he's probably never realized if he was before. His 'mask' of happiness was something to persuade himself that he is happy so that he could continue to go on with his day. I know that as we read further into the book guy will want to learn more and continue to talk to Clarisse.
I agree with your point- Clarisse affects Guy more than he wants to believe. The part that says, "He wore his happiness like a mask and the girl had run off across the lawn with the mask"(12) shows how Clarisse stripped away Guy's shield to reveal part of who he really is. I believe she'll be continuing to do that throughout the book.
Delete"'I don't know anything anymore'" (15).
ReplyDeleteI chose to use a quotation for this blog post, and this is the one that stuck out the most to me. I related this to the feelings Guy Montag is having towards Clarisse. Right now, he has a wife, yet he can't stop thinking about Clarisse. I found this very strange because he is thirty and she is only sixteen, yet they enjoy each other's company so much. Also, Montag does not seem to fully understand how he is feeling about Clarisse. He thinks she is very 'peculiar', but he gets really happy when he thinks about her. Furthermore, they are curious and interested in each other. Clarisse kept asking about his occupation and Montag was just asking simple questions. These are the reasons that this quotation stood out to me.
I totally agree with you, Jennifer, on how they are curious with each other but I don't think they are quite interested in each other as much as they are about their ideas and views on certain things. I think when Guy has the conversation with Clarisse, I think he's trying to take in a different viewpoint on the world and is trying to think from another perspective.
Delete“Strange. I heard once that a long time ago houses used to burn by accident and they needed firemen to stop the flames…” (8).
ReplyDeleteI think Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury is a good book and very enjoyable to read for the right reasons. By that, I mean that Bradbury’s sort of outlook toward the future in the book is one of the main reasons it has been very enjoyable to read. Ray Bradbury’s stretched out imagination of the future from the fifties makes the book enjoyable too. He uses his opinions about the future and combines it with a little bit of fifties background and setting into it too. His imagination/outlook into the future is cool to read because he provides us with little twists to the plot at the very beginning of the book. One of those examples of his twists to the plot comes from this quote provided. Bradbury’s imaginative outlook shows in this part because in the world today firemen put fires out, in this passage it portrays the firemen doing the exact opposite of their actual job, now they start fires. This is kind of cool because it adds a more interesting aspect to the book. This is one of many examples where Bradbury thinks the exact opposite of the stereotypes presented to us in the world today. In that aspect, I think that Bradbury’s writing can really compare to the writing in “Catcher in the Rye” because both authors are really trying to provide the stereotypes and compare it to how it would be if it was the exact opposite. Not only that, but the background to the characters presented to us really make it fun because you show Guy who’s a character thinking sort of inside the box and you have Clarisse, a young girl who’s developing ideas still. The contrasting personalities really put another bang in the book.
“So many people are. Afraid of firemen, I mean. But you’re just a man, after all…. (5)”
ReplyDeleteThis quote reveals that this time period is in the future and is much more advanced than the time period we are in now (21st century). In the present day firemen are regarded as heroes and people that risk their lives for others and good causes. Also, they extinguish fires around the world while in this time period in the book firemen are looked upon as bad people because they are the people who start the fires. The girl that Guy is talking to in this quote explains that just because he is a fireman doesn't mean he is a bad person and that he is just a man and human like everyone else.
"Hold still she said as she held the dandelion under his chin. And he said. What a shame, you don't love anyone!" (pg 22)
ReplyDeleteThrough the first part of the book we read you could see Montags deep differences with his wife and the problems they have. Through the beginning parts of the book you begin to see the conflict thats going on in montags head...deeply confused about his feeling for his wife he often questions himself throughout the book. For example, when he keeps trying to talk to his wife on page 18 but keeps finding himself stumbling over his own words multiple times. I think that in this situation Montag is very confused about whats going on he doesnt realize really what he wants with his wife and where he wants to go with his relationship. Since we havent read far in to the book yet we dont know a lot about who montag is and what his motives are. We do know so far from the reading that he has a mixed relationship with his wife. This relationship is part of the reason Montag is such an interesting characher. I find the book so far to be very interesting it teases you with tiny bits of character plot here and there letting your imagination run wild. I find this situation with Montag and his wife to be exactly as such. Through reading its not just a topic that is quickly dropped and picked up again... I feel like this is going to be a conflict we see much more for the rest of the book. Montags troubled relationship with his wife. I think its a very interesting relationship and it sets up for much future plot. The quote that I choose is also interesting because later on in the page Montag is trying to cover up in a defensive way. He says "but I do love her! I really do!" I feel like Montag is acting almost like a defensive child in the situation he's trying to talk himself into saying that he loves her by repeating the phrase over and over again.
In conclusion I think this is an interesting conflict that we will see much more of in the future of the story.
"And then when she seemed hypnotized by the salamander on his arm and the phoenix disc on his chest, he spoke again"(6).
ReplyDeleteThe two animals mentioned here have a striking relationship to the entire story and the concept of it. In mythology, salamanders and phoenixes are creatures that live through fire. The salamander is a symbol for fire, temptation, and burning desire, plus it is incombustible- it cannot burn. The phoenix is a mythical bird that has the ability to set itself on fire and come back to life from its ashes. It is a symbol of power, strength, and renewal. The themes in this book may be what these animals symbolize. From this, I can predict that Montag will have the temptation to defy the society he's conformed to, to renew what has greatly changed.
I strongly agree with you. I think that the salamander and the phoenix are somewhat symbolizing something, like you said they symbolize power, strength, and a burning desire or temptation. This theme of strength and power might possibly reoccur again in the book as we continue reading.
DeleteThis book reminds me a lot of The Catcher in the Rye, because Holden is always with the girls and Montag and the firefighter, are talking and spending time with this new girl they met, Clarisse.
ReplyDelete“Do you mind if I walk back with you? I’m Clarisse McClellan.”(6)
This part stood out the most because in the beginning the two men wanted to walk with this girl they had just met, and then the girl asks if she they could kindly walk with her on the way to their homes. I find it interesting that she wasn’t afraid to tell them her full name, and mainly that she had the courage to tell the fire fighter that she wasn’t afraid of him.
"Her face was slender and milk-white...her dress was white and it whispered...the white stir of her face turning... (5)"
ReplyDelete"He saw himself in her eyes, suspended in two shining drops of bright water, himself dark and tiny... (7)"
I really like Ray Bradbury's use of contrast for Guy Montag and Clarisse. Clarisse is described as white -- the color of innocence, purity, and curiosity. Guy is described as dark -- the idea of sadness, absence, and emptiness. White is usually used to show a good character from a bad character, the one in white glowing while the dark character is completely enveloped in darkness. In this case, Clarisse is a good character, glowing in white, while Guy seems like a bad character, surrounded by darkness. I also enjoyed and thought that it was really interesting how Bradbury furthered this dark and light contrast between Guy and Clarisse. When Clarisse asks Guy if he is happy, it shows her curiosity and purity and innocence. Later, when Guy says that he is truly not happy, it shows his emptiness, sadness, and absence of happiness. It almost seems odd how two people who seem so opposite could be friends and Guy could almost seem to have feelings for her. Overall, I really liked this contrast and the book so far.
"Someone else just jumped off the cap of a pillbox." (16)
ReplyDeleteIt seems that this is troubled society, and everyone is trying to escape it. Everyone in guy montags world is constantly distracting themselves. His wife is so constantly immersed in her machines that time seems to be a blur. She over medicated herself every night. And she is not alone. As shown by the quote, people are constantly over medicating. The whole society is obsessed with fast cars, technology and medications, all things that take you away from reality. As shown by the warplanes flying overhead, it is a bleak world in the future, and everyone is trying to distract themselves from their bleak reality. They all try to seem happy, but it is a mask. They try to convince themselves that they are happy, but they can't, and instead immerse their minds in meaningless distractions. In a sense, everyone is in denial about their present situation.