What does your passage reveal about a BIG idea, and how do you know? Think about the work we did in class re: Bradbury's commentary on religion, war, etc. And remember to look closely at language.
Choose a line that stands out to you because of the WAY that Bradbury wrote it. You can ask a question or just explain why it stood out to you. Don't forget to also respond to a classmate's comment.
"Montag did not hear, he was far away, he was running with his mind, he was gone, leaving this dead soot-covered body to sway in front of another raving fool." -page 112
ReplyDeleteThis line really stood out to me because of the imagery Bradbury created of Montag leaving his "soot-covered body" and mentally escaping Beatty and the fire. From this line, I imagined the rebirth of Montag. By “running with his mind” it’s as if he was rising from the ashes of his house to create a new lifestyle. It’s as if something clicks for Montag in this moment and all that's important is escaping the society that has engulfed him from years. He's finally ready to take action and escape government restrictions, escape being a fireman, escape a life without books and a life without knowledge. Furthermore, the way Bradbury has Montag refer to Beatty a "fool" in this line also shows how through this realization of having to start again, Montag is gaining power over Beatty and over society. It's as if he's finally understood what society does to people and with this knowledge comes the power of not feeling the need to mindlessly obey the government’s rules because Montag can think for himself. Also, in this line, it’s as if Montag gains power by giving up on his “soot-covered body” and the life he had that went along with it. He’s leaving behind his burned house, the connection he once wanted to share with Mildred, the job that was passed down through his family, and the friendship he once believed he had with Beatty. Montag is leaving behind everything has been a given to him for a path of uncertainty, revealing the big idea that knowledge is more powerful than fear. While he once submitted to being an ignorant subject in his society, Montag has set himself free with the idea of a new tomorrow, and the realization that ignorant bliss isn’t true happiness. And this knowledge empowers Montag to later kill Beatty and then go to Faber’s and go on the run for what he believes in, despite the possible consequences.
I really liked what you said about Montag "rising from the ashes" and getting ready to start a new life. I thought it was quite interesting how Montag is literally rising from the ashes of his house as well as metaphorically. However, the fact that he leaves the house covered in soot is representation of how he can't escape from the past in my opinion. The soot represents Montag's past as a fireman and all the wrong he committed while as a fireman. I also really liked what you said about Montag calling Beatty a "fool". After numerous occasions in which Montag himself was being called a "fool" by Mildred, this is him taking power back and standing up for not only himself but for the people who can't talk in that situation like the Clarisse's and Faber's of the world.
ReplyDelete"Simply a number of children out for a long night of roaring five or six hundred miles in a few moonlit hours, their faces icy with wind, and coming home or not coming at dawn, alive or not alive, that made the adventure" (128).
ReplyDeleteThis line was particularly intriguing to me because of the relatable topic and its connections to the desensitized people we discussed in class, like Mildred and her friends. The way Bradbury wrote this line shows how common these activities are, which is further supported by his strangely casual tone. By using a word like "simply," the message that driving at high speeds (and possibly killing themselves or others) is a routine practice really gets across to the reader. This passage also relates to Mildred's friend with kids, who just throws them into the parlor to keep them busy. They must get bored, and with no adult supervision, they can make up the most outrageous "games" that become the norm. The way this line is written, with the casual, matter-of-fact "alive or not alive" phrase, makes me wonder if the parents would even care if their children died. Probably not very much, seeing as they barely pay any attention to them anyway. But what is this teaching the kids? Will they not learn to value anything? These high-speed car chases add to the idea that violence is entertainment, and this is how everybody becomes so desensitized to death. Bradbury shows this by describing the children as "icy," or incapable of emotion. As a kid myself, I think their idea of fun is pretty horrifying. Yes, it does sound thrilling, but it is not acceptable when you put your life and other people's lives in danger, despite the possible "adventure."
I definitely agree with you and I love how at the end how you talked about the "adventure" behind these high-speed car races. It's as if this society lacks real stimulation so the kids and even the adults have to look anywhere they can for entertainment, for a thrill. Since they're incapable of actually thinking because they really don't know how to based on how they were raised, these kids need the thrill of going a hundred miles an hour in a car or even mowing someone down to know they're alive, to feel as if they have a purpose: adventure, even though they don't really have anything real in their lives. And the way Montag was only saved from this near-death experience by falling so the kids swerved out of the way to avoid slowing down is how Bradbury shows that in this society, there's danger in even crossing a street. The small, every day actions we take for granted like just crossing a street have become a liability. Anything that's not fast and mindless is a liability, because it shows that there's more to life than just the thrill of distraction.
Delete" Beatty, he though, you're not a problem now. You always said, don't fast a problem, burn it. Well, now I've done both. Good-Bye, Captain" (121)
ReplyDeleteThis line stands out to me because it shows just how far this society is willing to go to make sure everyone is following the same rules and their society is safe. Although we talked in class about how the government was taking control of the citizen's, this line shows just how deep the message runs. They are basically being taught that books and thoughts are the reason that people become depressed and sad. However, this thought from Montag shows just how Beatty and other citizens are being brain washed. This society does not learn how to deal with issues and feelings that are caused by deaths and other events. Instead they are told to immediately and permanently destroy the problem and push down any emotions that are in the left over.
I completely agree with the point you are bring up, however, I feel that Beatty is not included in the category of "not having knowledge." Beatty is quite well versed and his way of dealing with situations is very tactical and cunning. There is no way that Beatty is not in the loop. I think this society has built an alliance with those in charge to keep their employees in check. It is the classic example of how the upper man knows more and discloses the truth from the average joe.
DeleteI agree with your point but want to raise another topic. Montag did the impossible by both facing his problem, and destroying it. In this world, all problems are dealt with through burning and destruction. Montag developed and learned enough from both Clarisse and Faber to face the problems he has, but still contains enough of his old self to use the fire to end that problem.
Delete"What is fire? . . . Its real beauty is that it destroys responsibility and consequences" (115)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really struck me because it revealed so much to me about the story and the potential reason behind the use of fire. It seems like knowledge is just another thing that people have to stress out about. It is just another thing that human being are responsible for. And fire has the uncanny ability to just wipe that stress and responsibility away. Similar to what we've talked about in class previously, the government is trying to create this care free society, where the only responsibility citizens have is to have fun and be happy. Its almost like knowledge is a burden to that idea. It was also very interesting to me to see Beatty describe something as both a "beauty" and then go on to talk about how it destroys things which seems a bit contradictive. However, in this society, destruction is a beautiful sight. For example, in the parlor, Mildred and her friends were watching gruesome, destructive clips as a means of entertainment. So, destroying books in such a destructive way seems to fit the given society. This is similar to Tabita's question in class the other day, why don't they just throw the books in a river? And I think it has to do with how destruction, even in our society, is a twisted, yet quite normal means of entertainment. But then again, whats the point of entertaining yourself while burning books? Well, I think it has to do with the quote above. Fire has the ability to totally erase an object. Nothing is left besides the memory of that object and even that is marred. Fire in this case has the power to erase the responsibility and consequences of that object. Once you burn a certain book in this society, you no longer have the responsibility for that book nor the information inside of it. Therefore, you no longer have to deal with any consequences regarding that book. What I'm trying to get at is how interesting it is that fire can represent both a beautiful form of entertainment but also harsh destruction in both Beatty's heada and the society as a whole.
I agree with you Garrett on the idea that knowledge in their opinion is something else to stress about, but I think that it's not just that it's another thing to stress about, it's that they are terrified of knowledge. In a society that's emotionless and brainwashed by the government with technology, they are worried about firstly what the government my do to them if they carried books and also terrified of what books might do to change the society in a negative way in their opinion.
Deletei completely agree with you but i connected this more to the government and how we see the characters changed there opions though out the
Deletebook and how its so amazing the transformation.
and i really like that you connected it to tabita's comment.
I agree and follow your reasons in which why “fireman” use fire instead of water to burn books. And since you mention how destruction is entertainment in this society you might also want to mention why fire appeals to the eye. For example, fire is bright and illuminates the space its compelled in. This makes fire stick out to the naked eye and as a result, the “brainwashed” citizens living in the world of 451 are going to appeal to it. Additionally, fire spreads and dances. What I mean by this is that its constantly moving and its appealing for people like Mildred and her Friends because they think its full of life and that its entertaining.
DeleteI agree with you on your connection, however I believe that the fire connects to the governments way of singling out the people the government believes will cause trouble for people who mindlessly follow them. The people who can think for themselves, create what they want, and create and talk about topics that people do not like are in danger of destroying the governments control. Those people who don't support the burning of the books, and speak out have been made examples of and burned alive. The fire scares people into going into hiding and killing themselves from the amount of unhappiness inside.
DeleteI liked your points a lot but I think that Beatty means something else. I think that he means to talk about the beauty of destruction. I think that this is pointing to the amazing power that destruction has. When we destroy something with fire, it is gone forever. Depending on how we look at this, it can either be very good, or terrible. If we look at this as being very good, we look at how burning a bad thing can completely erase it from our lives. If we look as it as something terrible, we understand how we can never completely erase something from our lives. Even if it is physically gone, we still remember it for what it did and what it meant to us. I guess what I am trying to say is, there are so many different ways that destroying things can effect us, it is almost beautiful to look at and learn what we can.
Delete"What is there about fire that is so lovely?...It’s perpetual motion; the thing man wanted to invent but never did...It’s a mystery...Its real beauty is that it destroys responsibility and consequences...clean, quick, sure; nothing to rot later. Antibiotic, aesthetic, practical" (115).
ReplyDeleteFire is something that controls Montag's society. It is something that everyone fears yet uses it as entertainment. For example, no one wants to store books in their houses because they fear that the fire will burn their possessions and the house itself. However, Montag's society also see it as entertainment because when the firefighters all come to burn all the books, everyone comes out to watch. When Beatty says this to Montag, he refers to him not watching out for the consequences that will come from his actions. He then explains the beauty of fire with its power to extinguish responsibility and consequences. The way Beatty defines fire, fits the description of their society too. Their society's commitment to destruction and order is related to how fire puts out anything that may cause disruption. However, what caught me off guard was how Montag used Beatty's theory against him to kill him. The part where is says it "clean, quick, sure; nothing to rot later" told me how Monatag killed Beatty so his ideas of burning books would't 'rot' society later on. His death was clean and quick. Montag wants to eliminate the idea that fire should be used for destructive purposes and bring it back as an element to the natural world.
I completely agree with the point that you made about Montag stopping the rot of society through killing Beatty. Also, Montag instinctively decided to kill Beatty when he realized that he would be sending people after Faber. Faber isn't like everyone else in society, he has a detachment to it, and he is the key that Montag can use to find a connection within these books. Beatty became the burden himself, not Montag, when he would bring destruction to that key. He wouldn't rot Faber, he wouldn't rot society, as you said.
DeleteI completely agree with your point. Fire is what Montag's society depends on. I would like to add on to the part where you were talking about Beatty's death. I would like to bring up the quotation that Montag said after he killed Beatty, "You always said don't face a problem, burn it. Well, now I've done both" (115). This is saying how Beatty was a huge problem to Montag, and basically society, because he was neglecting the fact that burning all these books and these houses were wrong. The 'problem' is Beatty and the way that he is burning everything. Your insight on the quotation you chose helped me understand it even better.
DeleteI really like what you said here! I think this quote really defines all the symbolism we've discussed in class about fire. This society in "Fahrenheit 451" is so free of any responsibility except for being irresponsible. The kids drive around like maniacs, killing and destroying things for fun, and no one really says a thing about it. It's normal, in this society, for kids and people to destroy things. It's all a distraction, which, as we now know, is what fire is, too. Fire diminishes any responsibility, which also leads to a lack of any consequence. Without responsibility, you can't really get in trouble for anything, so people are basically free to do whatever they please--as long as it's socially acceptable. Fire is essentially the key to 'happiness' in "Fahrenheit 451;" it gets rid of responsibility and consequence, there for getting rid of a logical thought process, therefore creating the stupid, brainwashed drones that populate this society. The people love fire for this.
Delete"The emptiness made an even emptier whistle, a senseless scream. He tried to think about the vacuum upon which the nothingness performed and he could not..." (117)
ReplyDeleteI think the bigger idea that this quote portrays about Montag's society and our society today is that the emptiness that he feels portrays how our world today is completely brainwashed like his, but to his society's extent it represents how society is so brainwashed by the violence and distracted that they don't have opinions at all. His society is sort of like a blank canvas that is waiting to get painted with colors but the artist never thinks of anything to paint leaving the canvas blank. I say this because some amounts of people have books but still have a regrowing nervousness of painting true ideas on the society so it is blank and emotionless. Also, this quote really reveals something about our society that we live in, we are so brainwashed with technology that we don't notice what other things happen around us and we have lesser opinions then when we didn't have as much technology. People would have educated conversations more than now in our time today because they didn't have topics that were meaningless to talk about like now. In class, we discussed how now many people look at violence as a view of "Oh how cool," and how we don't realize that the violence isn't a "cool" thing considering all of our war related world issues. This quote really reveals the overarching idea that violence isn't the answer to all our issues. It also reveals that violence is something that can take away comfortability in Montag's case.
I definitely agree with your point. I love the connection you made of how Montag's society is just like a bank canvas just waiting be painted but the artist has no idea of what to create. I agree with this idea because it practically defines Montag's society. It looks like technology has basically hypnotized the everyone he knows and there's just someone out there waiting for a thought to come up but it doesn't because he doesn't even know what to think of with everyone being the same. I also agree with your point of how people don't even know what's going on around them. There are so many things going on around us that we don't really give a second thought to. Your point on violence is very true also (I'm basically agreeing with everything your saying at this point). People find it "cool" in a gruesome way. Not only that but other things that are going on around the world too. For instance, a lot of people that I know make jokes about ebola and saying lots of rude things about when they don't realize how serious it is. Montag's society and our society today share many themes but a major one is how we dismiss everything around us very easily and don't really give a second thought of how important it may be.
Delete"The house fell in red coals and black ash. It bedded itself down in sleepy pink grey cinders and a smoke plume blew over it, rising and waving slowly back and forth in the sky. It was three-thirty in the morning. The crowd drew back into the houses; the great tense of the circus had slumped into charcoal and rubble and the show was well over."
ReplyDeleteI think this is metaphorically foreshadows what will come soon for montage and the the government. this paragraph is so beautiful and very poetic. i immediately connected it to the first line in the book because both talk about fire with the same character but in totally different ways. the strength of this sentence show the characters changes throughout the book.
Yes, I agree that this is forshadowing. In the first section, a person burned. Now Montag's house burns. Maybe, in the next section, society will burn. Montag's world is shaped by fire. Fire, the essence of destruction and death, but also rebirth.
Delete"There was a hiss like a great mouthful of spittle banging a red-hot stove, as if salt had been poured over a monstrous black snail to cause a terrible liquefaction and a boiling over of yellow foam. Montag fought to get his hands at his ears to clamp and cut away the sound"(119).
ReplyDeleteThe description of fire here and Montag's reaction to it compared to the start of this book illustrates a significant change in perspective. Fire is known to be destructive, and at the start of the book, Montag seemingly enjoyed when it was brought into action; it destroyed. However, at this point in the book, he has acknowledged that destruction isn't as beautiful as he once thought. When he once wanted to "shove a marshmellow on a stick in the furnace," now Montag wants to get away from it. His reaction of covering his ears and prying away from the sound shows how he has changed himself. Along with that, the fire burning isn't as blissfully described as it once was before. The use of phrases like "monstrous black snail" and "red hot stove" add an unpleasant tone to fire when it is being used this way. He no longer enjoys it. Thus portraying how perspective has changed- Montag has opened his eyes.
I agree with you Alondra in that Guy Montag is interpreting fire in another way which is fire being very destructive and somewhat cruel to its surroundings, while before it was giving off light, beautiful in display and as what you said putting a Marshmallow stick in the furnace. But, I think fire can still be used as putting light in a room and clearing up the picture and may be interpreted a little harshly.
Delete“And then he was a shrieking blaze, a jumping, sprawling gibbering mannikin, no longer human or known, all writhing flame on the lawn as Montag shot one continuous pulse of liquid fire on him” (119).
ReplyDeleteI love the language used in this line because its one of the few lines where fire is seen as a destructive and terrible thing. For example, in the novel, fire is supposed to be the solution to all hate and sadness and is portrayed as a great thing. But the language used in this sentence portrays it to be such a dark and nasty thing. Specifically I love how Bradbury uses “Jumping” and “sprawling” as the actions of Beatty when he was shot into flames because it shows how he is desperately to find a way out of the pain he is trapped in. I also like how Bradbury says “no longer human” because it relates to the central theme of the book: dehumanizing people. If you take away someones ability to feel and to have a opinion are they still human? Or are they just mere objects -imitating water- and flowing along with society? Overall I love how Bradbury uses language to capture the feeling of the sentence but also relate back to the central theme of the whole book.
"For no reason at all in the world they would have killed me" (122).
ReplyDeleteThis quotation was said by Montag after the kids almost ran over him with their car. I related this to the conversation we had in class today about war, as well as a class conversation we had yesterday. I interpreted this quotation as showing how the children in Montag's society have nothing better to do with their lives besides to try and harm others. This is due to the lack of education they are getting from their schools. This is also due to the fact that they are not getting enough care and guidance from their parents, and the government is doing whatever they can to distract society from the war. Another thing that stuck out to me about this quotation is the way it was written/ it's writing style. The way that Ray Bradbury wrote this, he just came right out and said it, and it was very literal. Most of the phrases in the book is metaphorical or they are analogies. Hence, you have to interpret and look deeper into it. With this quotation, the way it is so literal, it gives it a bolder and more serious tone. I interpreted it like these things are never going to change; people are always going to try and "kill you for no reason in the world" (122), at least that's how it appears to be in Montag's society. These are the ways that the quotation relates to our class discussion, and these are the reasons that the writing style that Ray Bradbury used stands out to me.
I definitely agree with you. I really like your point about why children are so violent and their parents part in that. I think that another reason why the children act out in this way is because they want to get attention. As we know from Mildred's friends, parents don't spend very much time with their kids and when they do, they just put them in the parlor room. The parents don't give their kids much attention or care and that makes them have a bottled up need for attention. I think that the children's violent and harmful actions are the product of the bottle bursting.
DeleteI completely agree. It's crazy how in Montag's society the government really does do anything to distract people from the real world. Also the fact that the kids try to run over people with their cars is absolutely insane, the way they just think of it all as fun and games. I also think, though, that maybe the kids are somewhat curious about war on the inside and the reason why they're killing/trying to kill so many people with their cars is because they want to experience something other than just sitting around in school all day or at home with nothing to do but watch short clips on their giant wall-sized televisions.
Delete"For no reason at all in the world they would have killed me." (128)
ReplyDeleteThis passage is an example of the idea that people in this world lead meaningless lives. Most feel they have no purpose, so they live life dangerously and (often) violently. In this quote, Montag is thinking about a group of kids who had swerved right next to him in a car, just for fun. The kids think nothing of it and drive off, but Montag takes it personally. However, these kids are so unchallenged, so empty of thoughts and opinions, they are willing to put their lives and other at risk for the sake of feeling alive. This is a big issue throughout the book, where they live in a wold void of opinions and ideas that their lives feel meaningless. The kids in the car believe that Montag is as empty of purpose as they are, so they see no problem in putting him at risk.
"God, isn't it funny?' said the old man. 'It seems so remote because we have our own troubles" (132).
ReplyDeleteFaber says this while he and Montag talk about how serious the war in their society is getting. We touched on this subject in class, but this line really goes to show how true it is--people focus on themselves. We're all so entirely absorbed in our own lives that we don't stop and truly reflect on what is happening outside our own personal bubbles. Of course, we know what the gigantic issues are and why they're happening, but do we really, really think about them? Since these gigantic issues aren't directly affecting us, we don't put as much of our attention on them as we should be doing. As Faber said, these issues are remote to us. Humans (especially well-off Americans) are always drowning in self-pity and obsessing over silly petty problems while people are dying and women are being raped and children are being abandoned. There are just so many genuinely awful problems that are going on in the world and all we do is float about in our bubbles of narcissism. I think that's what Faber's pointing out here; of course, he doesn't appreciate the wars, but he's not doing very much to stop them. Faber mentions this, only briefly, because he's very aware that it's all a part of human nature. He knows how people work, especially in the field of focusing only on themselves. Faber has a conscience, which is why he knows and realizes so much about humanity and humans in his current society.
"Touching his bruised cheek... Somehow he had picked up the spilled books" (128)
ReplyDeleteMontag has just been nearly ran over by about a bunch of joy seeking, ignorant children. He falls to the floor and bruises his cheek. After he gets up and picks up the book, he thinks that they could have been the children who had killed Clarisse. I think the fact that Montag is somehow able to pick up the books shows a about how deeply he cares about literature. Montag is a wanted man, enough for the city to advertise it on t.v., and yet he does not leave his book behind. He mentions earlier how he wants to find someone like Clarisse, so I could only imagine how difficult it must have been for him to have just almost been killed by the kids how could have killed her. I think when he picks up the books, it shows his "fighting spirit" towards learning and understanding literature. I believe that Montag understands how by reading, we learn, and do not relive our mistakes by. Montag understands the risks of running while he is wanted man for the most serious crime, but do not think will stop until he has made the situation correct.
“He saw Beatty, a torch, not moving, fluttering out on the grass. He bit at his knuckles. I’m sorry, I’m sorry, oh God sorry….”(116).
ReplyDeleteThis quote reveals Guy Montag’s true emotions and feelings for others even if they were the most hated person ever, if Montag would kill him he would feel sorry for him. Also, a few pages before and after Montag can’t even stand up when running through the Alley and has to sit down and cry because he was so sad emotionally until a point that he could’ve committed suicide which he was thinking about that and death a lot towards the end of the book. All in all, towards the end of the book when he is on the run from the police he starts to have all the emotional thoughts and feelings for Mildred, Clarisse, Clarisse’s uncle, Mildred’s family and friends, Beatty, the other firemen, and fire itself.
I agree with what you are saying about Montag now reveling who he is through emotions. Also the fact that Montag starts to have these emotional thoughts about the people from the past and present, is quite interesting, since everything that's happening in Montag's life hasn't hit him yet.
Delete"I always wanted something very small, something I could talk to, something I could blot out with the palm of my hand, if necessary, nothing that could shout me down, nothing monstrous big."
ReplyDeleteFor Faber, one of the big problems with his society is that he can't control it. After years of being oppressed and put down by society, he is tired of being controlled. He is tired of dealing with bigger things, big t'vs, big society, big machines. People don't control those things, those things control them. For example, society, specifically the "parlor", control Mildred. Faber doesn't like being controlled like the rest of the people in the world. Thats why he has a TV the size a postage stamp. He can control it, or destroy it if he wants. In a sense, it is a false, but pleasing feeling of power, in a world where being part of a mass, and having no power is revered. Bradbury skillfully alludes to this desire for control without specifically stating it. He shows but doesn't tell. Additionally, the repetition of "something" brings flow to the sentence.
I think the way you referenced the size of Faber's TV really helps bring out your point. I think Montag feels like he wants to be this way but doesn't exactly know how, mostly due to the fact he has been trying to stop people from imagining and thinking for years and years which is one of the reasons he looks to Faber as a guide or mentor almost
DeleteI agree because Faber is a lot like Montag in certain ways. They both want more out of society and are tired of the norm. This in a way makes them perfect characters together because it shows that there are a lot of people who are suck of society
Delete"That wasn't the police he thought. He looked down the boulevard... A carful of children all ages... Simply a number of children out for a night of roaring five or six hundred mies... alive or not alive, thats what made the adventure" (128).
ReplyDeleteThis line relates a lot to stuff we discussed in class today. I think this quote really shows how in this world this is what kids do for fun, this is entertainment. Today in class we talked a lot about how this world is really a bunch of robots staring and screens and listening to shells in their ears for entertainment and when they feel like it they go smash cars to feel good and get out aggression or even just as an activity with friends. I definitely think that one of the main themes in this book is to show people that this is whats going to happen if we stop reading and just become technological robots who like doing boring things all day and never think. This world is seen as more extreme then todays world but this shows that this isn't that far off. Bored? Go run down men in a car and see what happens, tired, go listen to something in your ear while you are only half alive. It shows how messed up this world is but also how it relates to our world
"Two dozen of them flurried, wavering, indecisive, three miles off, like butterflies puzzled by autumn..." (125)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote really interesting because of the way that Bradbury uses nature to describe machines. In essence, butterflies and helicopters do have a lot in common. They both have wings and they both fly. But it seems odd how Bradbury would use something from nature to describe a machine. In Montag's society, nobody takes note of and appreciates the nature and environment around them. Everyone is too distracted by their machines to take the time to look outside. In addition, it seems odd how people in Montag's society can compare their machines to nature if they don't even acknowledge their existence in nature. For example, when Mildred talks about her "seashells" she is talking about something found in nature, yet she is too distracted by her own seashells too even know that they are amazing things found outside of the parlor.
I totally agree with your analysis, and I also found how technology is often associated with nature. Even at the beginning of the book, there were descriptions relating various machines to animals or natural things, like the spidery wire contraption used to catch and butter toast, and as you mentioned, the seashells. The technology often seems more alive than the humans do, such as the Mechanical Hound, and can provide more than any person could. It is definitely ironic, and I love how you wrote that you find the comparisons odd because most people aren't familiar with their existence in the real world.
Delete"The books leapt and danced like roasted birds, their wings ablaze with red and yellow feathers. An then he came to the parlor where the great idiot monsters lay asleep with their white thoughts and their snowy dreams." (117)
ReplyDeleteAs we all know, Bradbury's writing is filled with symbolism, figurative language, etc. This quote stood out to me because of the way he describes the books. In the society that Montag is living in, books, or for that matter, any type of literature at all, is hated by the government. This has a huge impact on Montag because he wants to study history and literature, but is unable to because everyone around him is completely clueless as to what is actually happening around them. Denying someone to learn revokes the right of self improvement or any step up in the world. In this quote, the books are described as something almost magical, which signifies the real depth and meaning of the unknown, as if knowledge is some kind of unattainable secret. To me, it's almost like society as a whole is just an image, but the books are an entrance to a 3D world that holds the meaning of living and everything that ever existed.
"--Mechanical Hound never fails. Never since it's first use in tracking quarry has this incredical invention made a mistake.."(133)
ReplyDeleteThis quote basically shows how dangerous technology can be if it's in the wrong persons hands. In my opinion, the real meaning of Montags society having a Mechanical Hound is to kill people who break the laws which could be the whole purpose in this novel, by showing how mechanical and anonymous there system is. The M.H could foreshadow in the novel to possibly show how Beatty is watching Montag and symbolize what a cruel and bigoted place Montag lives in. In my opinion the hound appears to be empty headed and soulless. One example of how it foreshadows is, going back to earlier in the book when Montag arrives at the firehouse and he tries to touch the hound but it seems to identify and dislike him. This shows how the Hound is giving Montag warnings about the change that he is beginning to under go as a result of meeting Clarisse. Although the Mechanical Hound is described as a living thing it's not living at all, it's just a machine trying to change the society's submissive and suppressed lives.
This theme of technology's dangers is a great one to focus on, Sierra! The Mechanical Hound is a good example, too. This made me think of how exposing kids to cars at a young age is another example of putting technology in the wrong person's hands. Both the Hound and cars have almost killed Montag, showing that technology is not always an advance in society.
Delete"Across the extreme tip of his middle finger, he saw now as he lifted that hand, a faint sixteenth of an inch of black tread where the tire had touched in passing. He looked at the black line with disbelief, getting to his feet. That wasn't the police, he thought" (128, Class Copy).
ReplyDeleteThis quote caught my eye because it shows an important theme in Fahrenheit 451, and also shows an interesting aspect of Ray Bradbury's writing. This quote was very literal, which I find rare in the mix of Bradbury's figurative and abstract typical style. (A good example is when firemen are breaking the windows of Montag's house and it's described as a dream shattering.)
I find that a major theme in this book is fear of the unknown and assumptions about other things. Here, Montag doesn't realize that the beetle is a group of kids, so he assumes that it's the police and runs for his life. He was almost killed for being in the roadway, not for being a fugitive.
This also applies to two major symbols in Fahrenheit 451, the constant war, and books.
When a war is on, people live in constant fear of losing and possibly being forced into a new regime. However, no one knows if this will happen for sure, so it's an irrational fear. The government of this world made the assumption that they would win, and when the government does something, everyone does it. People like Mildred and her friends assume that the war is meaningless because of this.
The ban on books also relates to this theme. Literature was offending people, so the government made the assumption that it was bad for everyone and got rid of it. This caused a fear of books among the populace, but this is a fear of the unknown because no one reads anymore. Everyone assumes that books are evil, so they don't question it. This theme is really important because it helps us understand how the government persuades people and how irrational it all is.
(Sorry if this was rambly, but it relates to a lot of things and I didn't want to forget anything!)
“Beatty flicked his igniter nearby and the small orange flame drew his fascinated gaze. ‘What is there about fire that’s so lovely? No matter what age we are, what draws us to it?’ Beatty blew out the flame and it lit again.” (Pg.115)
ReplyDeleteI find this portion of the reading most interesting because of the reference to the firing orange flame coming from the igniter. What is interesting is that Montag is “fascinated” by the light the flame is producing and I think that the questions he asks about the fire drawing attention is interesting. The reason I believe it draws attention is because of how bright it is and also the temperature that it has. I also think it is important to know why Montag finds fire as a mystery.
I agree. I especially found the last sentence interesting: "Beatty blew out the flame and it lit again.” I think fire gives Beatty a sense of power in a world that overpowers him. He is being controlled by the government and I think that deep down, subconsciously, he knows that. Fire is the only thing he can really control by himself, even though he is simply blowing it out and lighting it again.
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ReplyDelete“Beatty wanted to die. He had just stood there, not really trying to save himself, just stood there, joking, needling, thought Montag, and the thought was just enough to stifle his sobbing and let him pause for air” (116).
ReplyDeleteEven if Beatty wanted to die, it still wasn’t Montag’s job to do so, and he knows that, which is why he keeps saying to himself “Beatty wanted to die”. I think Montag is in denial. He killed someone and he is trying to make that ok by thinking that he “wanted to die”. He feels guilty about giving up on trying to help Beatty and he also feels guilty about murdering him, unlike someone like Mildred would who feel quite indifferent, especially since he has learned that life can actually be amazing. He is also in denial because he has become a hypocrite; instead of trying to make Beatty realize that books are good, he just eliminates the problem… and thats the problem. He has become so immersed in thinking deeply and fixing problems by talking and, ironically, he ends up taking the easy way out and just kills Beatty like how other people would do. Even though he is sort of lying to himself, it clears his head a little bit, which calms him down and keeps him going.
"'Why don't you belch Shakespeare at me, you fumbling snob?'" (119)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is important because shows how forgotten literature is in this society. When Beatty says, "Why don't you belch Shakespeare at me" it implies that the public will not know the literature that Montag knows of, because in this party he has attracted a crowd of people. If he decided to recite famous literature, it would mean nothing to the public since they do not know what it means or for example Shakespeare, would use outdated language. Also if he recited literature the public would think he was crazy and maybe attack him.
I agree with your point on how in their society, no one would be able to know what Shakespeare wrote because people like Beatty had taken it away from the public. I was also wondering about how Beatty would even know about Shakespeare himself. I think that Beatty was once the type of fireman that Montag is now.
Delete"What is there about fire that's so lovely? No matter what age we are, what draws us to it?… It's perpetual motion; the thing man wanted to invent but never dud,… What us fire? It's a mystery"(115).
ReplyDeleteThis quote takes place when Captain Beatty is talking to Montag about fire. This out of many quotes stood out to me because Beatty is referring to fire as to something beautiful and mesmerizing. He himself, as being captain of the firemen, is constantly watching the destruction of things and finds the beauty in it. On the other hand, Montag is trying to prevent that from happening. It surprises me how Montag takes it upon himself to show Beatty what it's like to be caught up in fire like he has done to others. I finally agree with Montag's actions, he has nothing else to lose.
I agree with you because Montag has nothing to lose but has everything to gain. Now that he doesn't have Clarisse he needs to be the one to take charge the one to lead the "pack". Clarisse had all the ideas but nobody ever listened to her because thy thought she was crazy but isn't that how every great person got inspired. Somebody told them they were crazy for thinking they can make an object fly, that it's not possible that the world it round. Nobody listened to Clarisse though but Montag oh that was a different story. He could be the the voice of reason and make the world a better place one step at a time.
Delete"I wonder if they were the ones who killed Clarisse? He stopped and his mind said it again, very loud. I wonder if they were the ones who killed Clarisse! He wanted to run after them yelling. His eyes watered." Pg.(128-129)
ReplyDeleteThis line stands out to me because this is the first time that Montag seems to really care about someone. His eyes watered, and he said that he wouldn't even cry if his wife dies, his wife. Yet a person that he barely knew at all dies and it hurts him. That's shows you that it doesn't matter how long you know someone it's what they do in the period that you are together. In the short period of time that he knew Carisse she showed him a side of the world that he had never seen before. He said he wanted to run after them yelling he wanted revenge because a person he really cared about died by their hands. Clarisse helped Montag see the "real him". The one that doesn't want to be a fireman the one that wants to rebel and actually read the books that he is burning. By the time Clarisse died he had a different point of view, he saw the world differently than anybody else. Everybody has that person that makes them want to do better to strive for greatness Kobe Bryant had Michael Jordan, Holden had Phoebe, I have my sister, and Montag has Clarisse.
I really like what your saying that everyone has that one special person that makes them strive for greatness, and how Montag has Clarisse. I really agree, I feel like Montag doesnt care what happens to Beatty or Mildred or anyone because they have no emotional feelings really so he cant connect with them... but I feel that he really connected with Clarisse therefore he gets so sad whenever people mention her.
Delete“Beatty wanted to die.” (122)
ReplyDeleteThis idea of suicide comes up frequently when reading the book and is always passed by as a natural occurrence. Now, however, Bradbury has highlighted the motif of death and suicide by dedicating a whole paragraph to it. Beatty did not feel substance to living even though he was in the know. This just goes to show how much detachment from feelings can affect someone. Humans were meant to share their feelings in all of their forms: frustration, anger, love, and care. The fact that Beatty is not an ignorant one but is just as empty as Mildred and her friends shows that knowledge isn’t the key to everything. The key is being able to trust others and rely on them making you strong. And because someone relies on you, you become way more strong. This reaction happens to each and everyone of us making it hard to want to be removed from this life. That cannot be said for Beatty because the society is not just taking away books or feelings but they are taking away trust and in turn love.
From reading this book, it seemed as if up to now, Beatty was like Montag, who' put up and act and his mask was taken off'. He had a huge ego and it was all to hide the reality that you stated in your response. He just didn't have the same, I guess people in his life that helped Montag find purpose. Yet, Beatty is very intelligent, and he is always reciting quotes/references, that make him seem smarter, but yet he objectifies against reading and the burden, yet he has a burden himself. All of this caused him to not move away or flinch at Montag pointing a weapon at him.
Delete"Beatty, he thought, you always said dont face a problem burn it. Well now I've done both. Good bye captain." (pg: 121)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I find this quote interesting because Montag shows almost zero remourse for just murdering one of his firemen captains that he has been partnered with for most of his life! I find this interesting how I can connect this back to what we were talking about in class, that the society that Montag lives in kind of brainwashes people to think that killing is ok... even though Montag is fighting for a just cause in this case... i find it interesting that the first thing he resorts to is killing. Also the fact the he doesnt feel bad after leads me to think that Montag really doesnt care what happens to his life.Also how he says that when he said that he had tried both... He tried trying to make the problems with Beatty go away but he also in th end when it didnt work just burned him. I feel like Montag is almost giving in to what Beatty wanted, because all he did in the end was use fire to get rid of his problems.
" The thing that saved him was falling flat. The driver of that car, seeing Montag down,instinctively considered the probability that running over a body at such a high speed might turn the car upside down and spill them out. If Montag had remained an upright target?..." (129)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because if Montag was able to notice the fact that some random driver was aware of such an effect, then that means they are thinking, looking and taking in what they see. It can also mean either that people aren't completely unaware in this society or that there are others like Montag. Anyways, living in this world, teens and young people go around "killing each other for no reason," and drive at crazy speed carelessly, knocking whatever in sight(even other people), yet this happens. It's true that the car can flip over, ending the driver's and victim's life. Since these teens are so young and still aren't on the Level that Mildred is on, they are still "occupied" with tings like this. They want to live, something deep in them, something human wants to keep going. Life is only a once in a lifetime thing (see what I did there~ but I'm saying you only live once) and you don't want to end it because of your 'stupid mistake.'