H-Band: Catcher in the Rye-- Final Reflection
For your final blog post on Catcher in the Rye, please choose/type up a quotation from the final chapters and EITHER ask a question OR write a response to that quotation. What does the end reveal about Holden? Why does your quotation seem significant? Perhaps you can make some connections to moments earlier in the novel. Take your time with this post, and do some serious thinking about Holden and his resolution at the end of the novel. Make sure that you respond to another classmate's question or response.
"I wondered if maybe he just liked to pat guys on the head when they're asleep. I mean how can you tell about that stuff for sure? You can't" (195). For me, this line sums up a lot. In class, we talked about how Mr. Antolini was Holden's role model. Holden really relates to Mr. Antolini. There are small things, like both being interested in older women, and bigger things, like wishing D.B. would move away from Hollywood and write short stories again. The difference between Mr. Antolini and Holden is that Mr. Antolini thinks before he acts, or at least acts more responsibly. Mr. Antolini quit his job, Holden flunked out. I was wondering why Holden was making excuses for Mr. Antolini who had clearly done something wrong. That's when I realized there were a few reasons. The most important (in my opinion) was that Holden needed Mr. Antolini to be perfect, because if Mr. Antolini could do it so could Holden.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with your post, and to add on maybe Holden was creating excuses for Mr. Antolini because he still sees the good behind that one very awkward situation that took place between them. Which means that Holden is starting to change his thought process because before when he would judge someone or something after he said it, it would be definite. This can go back to our class discussion on how Mr. Antolini's discussion with Holden had really put an impact on him because it wasn't just anyone saying that to Holden it was a person he deeply looked up to. I would also like to add your blog this is very significant in the book and to us because we will most likely encounter a person or situation that won't really make us feel so comfortable, but we will still look at the situation from different perspectives like Holden was trying to do in the sited quotation
DeleteI wrote about the exact same thing. To my opinion I feel like Holden doesn't want to loose him, if he keeps thinking about the awkward moment that happen he might not view Mr. Antolini the way he use to, I feel he doesn't want that because he know he looks up to him and they're very much alike, where they think the same about D.B, or how they're interested in older woman. they're little things but Holden realizing those thing which is why he looks up to him.
DeleteI definitely agree with your whole statement. Holden sees Mr Antolini as a role model. However, I have an addition to make; Holden makes excuses for Mr Antolini so that he can continue to be Holden's perfect role model... why? If he thought he was so creepy, why would he all of a sudden take it back to make Mr Antolini seem good again?
DeleteI concur. Mr. Antolini is Holden's catcher in the rye. Mr. Antolini's basic premise is the epitome of Holden's intended path as an adult. Mr. Antolini is unafraid of the criticism of his fellow members of society. But Mr. Antolini and Holden also have negative attributes that are similar. For example Mr. Antolini quit his job, Holden flunked out of numerous schools. Nice work Lois.
DeleteI agree but I wanted to elaborate on your thought I think Holden looks up so much to Mr. Antolini because hes the last role model in Holdens life and he wants to hold on to his perception of him for as long as possible. I think Holden comes across alot of fake people throught the story like Stradlatter and it really confuses Holden, but to Holden Mr. Antolini is real, and he idolizes him and Holden wants to preserve this
Delete" She put the suitcase down. My clothes, she said. I'm going with you. Can I? Okay? What? I said. I almost fell over when she said that." (226). This is very significant because it is showing how Holden's decisions affect the people around him especially people he cares about, in this case its Phoebe. In the quote Phoebe decides that she wants to go with Holden but this strikes Holden by surprise, i believe this is because he hasn't been in a situation were he is cared about or accepted, he is used to being rejected (for example Sally, Stradlater, and Ackley, all rejected Holden in some type of way) and now that his younger sister shows these feelings towards him he's shocked. I personally believe that Phoebe's decision was because she felt that he need her or maybe she needed him. Through this situation i feel that Holden shows his first sign of maturity because he realizes how his actions affect others and he now changes to make sure that his actions will affect others in a more positive light. I would also like to add that Holden and Phoebe begin to create an even closer relationship because of this both on a personal level and on a Family level because they begin to accept each other more which is why i believe Phoebe gives Holden his hat back because she realizes he needs it more than she does. Holden then breaks down because people are usually always wanting things from him and taking his stuff ( stradlater and the hw, James Castle and the turtleneck sweater, and the kid who borrowed his typewriter) so Phoebe really touches Holden on the emotional level through the simple exchange to his red hunting hat.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with what you said. Holden, like many other people, are oblivious to what their actions can cause. Holden may not realize how hard it is for Phoebe to look up to him, when he's flunking out of school. Or how bad his parents probably feel because of how unhappy Holden is. I agree and I think that Phoebe asking to come with him was an eye-opener for him...and definitely one of the reasons he ended up staying.
Delete“… I was sort of afraid she’d fall off the goddamn horse, but I didn’t say anything or do anything. The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it’s bad if you say anything to them.” (232)
ReplyDeleteThis is a very compelling quote. It encapsulates much of what troubles Holden throughout this book. Holden has a desire to protect the innocence of children, yet there are so many variables that contribute to a very unpredictable life. It is human nature to want to control the outcome of events. However, there are many things that are impossible to have absolute control over. Perhaps, Holden has had a glimmer of insight into what seems to have been troubling to him throughout the book, the fact that things cannot be frozen forever, people change, things change, life moves on in many directions. Holden, throughout the story has had a hard time grasping and accepting the change of the things dear to him in his personal life. In this instance he clearly says that sometimes you just need to let things unfold, and not interfere with the outcome. Is this a healthy side of Holden starting to show itself? Is this a sign that he is maturing, and can move on from important events in his life, such as the death of his brother, which seems to have severely changed his view of the world?
I totally agree with your quote. I think it is definitely about the fact that he really wants to preserve little kids innocence as much as possible. Throughout the book he talks a lot about loving who Phoebe is and basically loving her innocence. I think this quote is the first time he talks about accepting the fact that Phoebe is going to change because she is going to grow up. This quote is definitely a metaphor for society impacting her, and I think he's saying that she's going to get involved with it, and when she does she might fall down a couple of times but you can't say anything, because she will come through in the end.
Delete"I mean I wonder if just maybe I was wrong about thinking he was making a flitty pass at me. I wondered if maybe he just liked to pat guys on the head when they're asleep" (214)
ReplyDeleteSense Holden and Mr. Antolini have a good connection, they get along very well. Mr. Antolini unsterstands Holden in many ways. I think that after what happen Holden's perspective of Mr Anotlini might change which is coming he doesn't want. Holden starts telling himself that maybe Mr. Antolini just like to pat people on the head, he starts saying these thing like if he wanted to convince himself that Mr. Antolini isn't a pervert. I feel like Holden doesn't want to loose Mr. Antolini, if he keeps thinking about that fact that he woke to Mr. Antolini patting him on the head he'll always feel uncomfortable around him and Holden doesn't want that which is why he keeps saying that maybe he just like doing that, how do tell about that stuff for sure.
I agree with you very much, I see the similarities between Holden and Mr. Antolini and maybe Mr. Antolini sees Holden as this poor kid who experience the death of a student he knew and he feels for Holden. Mr. Antolini seems to possibly have this creepy but not so creepy obsession with childhood and all of it's perks. Mr. Antolini does not see Holden as the person he really his because of the degree at which they know each other. In conclusion, I think that they have many similarities that an older wiser person such as Mr. Antolini sees and Holden doesn't see as much.
Delete"I felt so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old Phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, I felt so damn happy, if you want to know the truth. I don't know why. It was that she looked so damn nice, the way she kept going around and around, in her blue coat and all." (234)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because I think it's the first time where we have seen Holden actually express a real genuine emotion. He usually talks about how cruel the world is and how much he hates phonies. He's usually very negative and pessimistic towards everything while in this part of the book he is genuinely happy and for a very simple reason. He's happy simply while looking at his sister Phoebe, something as simple and small as his little sister can make him happy and I think that shows a lot for someone like Holden. Which ultimately connects back to the point of how much Holden cares and loves Phoebe. Holden and Phoebe have this connection with each other that I feel no one will ever have. It's a simple brother and sister bond.
I was going to choose this quote as well, and for the same basic reasons. At this point Holden has made up his mind, and is going to stay in the East cost with his family. I agree with you where you talk about Holden being happy because of Pheobe, but he isn't only happy because of Pheobe. Holden's happiness here is broken out because of Pheobe, but here he is happy about many things, and is lost in thought (thats why he won't go to some sort of shelter). Holden probably will change and be happier, but still keep most of his "old" self, because a moment like this doesn't fully change you, but can make you better in many different ways.
DeleteI agree with what you said completely. To add on, I think that this part ties perfectly back to when Phoebe kept harassing Holden to tell her one thing he likes. He denied not having anything but couldn't give just one thing he liked. This quote shows that the one thing he genuinely likes is Pheobe. The best part, to me, is how he didn't even know why he was so happy- he just was.
Delete"...I saw something that drove me crazy. Somebody'd written 'F*** you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and all the other kids would see it, and how they wonder what it meant, and then finally some dirty kid would tell them-all cockeyed, naturally- what it meant, and how they'd all think about it and maybe even worry about it for a couple days." (221).
ReplyDeleteI think this quote is interesting because it shows Holden's true desire to preserve innocence in children, especially Phoebe. He thinks about the writing on the walls and how it ruins the children. This goes along with his wanting to be the catcher in the rye and catching children and saving them from adulthood (preserving innocence.) He wants to scrub off all the vandalism so that no one else would see it because it "drove him crazy" to see those words written all over, so many times. Not only does it upset him, but it angers him; he describes his want to hurt the person who wrote it. Overall, I think this quote shows a lot about Holden as a person and his wants and desires, and it further explains the idea of being the "catcher in the rye."
I totally agree with your point. Holden hates the idea of children growing up and losing their innocence. I think that one of the reasons he's so obsessed with this is that he hates the person he has become and he can only wish to be back in Phoebe's position. Holden hates the fact that he let society change him and he doesn't want that to happen to anyone else, especially Phoebe.
DeleteI totally agree with what you said, Lynsey. I think that Holden is worried about the kids because he wants to preserve their innocence. Maybe this same situation happened to him as a kid and he wants to prevent this from happening to other kids, especially his sister, who he loves.
Delete"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'F you' signs in the world. It's impossible." (222)
ReplyDeleteI think what Holden is trying to say here is that no matter how hard you may try, you'll never be 100% satisfied and you will never get rid of the bad things and people in the world. This is clearly something that Holden feels strongly about. Throughout his whole life, he has never felt completely happy with himself, his family, his schools, his friends, and New York City. He always has something to complain about. But Holden does bring up a good point when he says this. There's no use in striving for perfection when it's impossible.
I completely agree with your statement and I think Holden feels like sort of an outcast compared to everyone in his life. He always describes how smart Phoebe and Allie is and how good D.B is at writing short stories while Holden is just there.
Delete"That's all I'm going to tell about. I could probably tell you what I did after I went home, and how I got sick and all, and what school I'm supposed to go to next fall, after I get out of here, but I don't feel like it." (234)
ReplyDeleteThis quote reveals how Holden keeps a composure of aspects in his life. He doesn't tend to let people in. Holden keeps the future a secret from us because he wanted to really grab our attention with the story that happens in about the span of three days. The future could've been better for him, if he had gotten help, or it could've been worse. Does his life get better or worse after this chapter in his life? To me, his life gets better. He looks for attention and sympathy in negative ways and if nothing is wrong then he doesn't feel the need to talk about it.
"I decided I'd go away. I decided I'd never go home again and I'd never go to another school again. I decided I'd see old Phoebe and sort of say good-by to her and all, and gibe her back her Christmas dough, and then I'd start hitchhiking my way out West." (218).
ReplyDeleteThis line here is very interesting to me because it shows him finally trying to make something out of himself and finally do something with his life. He then says he would move to " where nobody'd know me and I'd get a job." (218). Holden wants to finally make a difference and change the course of his life for the better. In many earlier parts of the book, Holden seems to take things as they come and hope that an opportunity would come that would benefit him and hopefully lead to his success as a person. For example, back when Holden stayed back in the hotel, he was lost in the world, showing a sign of something along the lines of getting girls and lying his way through his troubles. Back in the hotel, Holden's mind was on women such as the ones in the Lavender room. He put on his Jim Steele character and decided to lie his way through his time with them just so he could get with them. Holden was focused on women and he decided to try to achieve his goals by lying. Now, later in the book, Holden is showing a sign of responsibility. Holden is no longer feeling the need to spend his time with women or lie to get somewhere in the world.
I totally agree with you. I feel like Holden is starting to realize that he's only getting older and not younger which makes him now want to take responsibilities of his own. Also, i think that from Holden;s perspective on the world, he really tries to be different than others because to him everyone else that have success are phonies.
Delete"And I think I was more depressed that I ever was in my whole life." (214)
ReplyDeleteThis proves that Holden doesn't really know how to deal with all the things that are happening to him in his life so far. First, with his brother Allie's death, than dropping out of all the schools he's been to, and now with no where to go and hiding from his parents and family. He is only 16 years old and doesn't really have anybody looking out for him or caring for him, and it is seriously impacting him- in a negative way. I think that if Holden was to get help, he needs to get it as fast as possible because this may be his last straw.
I totally agree with you. I think that he needs help from Phoebe and other children to accompany him. After all, he is probably interested in children the most. Holden thinks that they are a positive energy when they're around him. If he is willing to help children by being 'the catcher in the rye,' then he would love them to accompany him.
Delete"I felt so so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, I felt so damn happy to know the truth"(233).
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because not only does it show how happy Holden is but really how happy he is when he's with phoebe. There's never been a dull moment between them. I feel like through out the whole book Holden only talks good about when hes with phoebe and the when he's not with her he just talks about how he's so depress. This quote also reveals Holden's relationship towards phoebe is about love , care and being there for one and another. I mean Holden basically decides not to go away because of her and so he stays home. Also, the way he decribes her all the time just shows how much he loves her. Holden sees the world as everyone is a phonie and morons but when it comes to phoebe , the world to him seems happy.
I really liked this quote and I agree with you. I think to Holden Phoebe is the one person that through Allie's death hasn't changed. She's the same person now as she was when he was alive and he truly loves her. D.B moved to Hollywood, his parents no longer see him, and for some reason he is incapable of calling Jane now, but Phoebe is exactly the same and they even developed a closer bond through Allie's death and all the events that came after that.
DeleteI agree with both of you. Throughout this whole book, I don't remember Holden ever sacrificing something for good of someone else up until very last part of the book. When Phoebe wanted to move with Holden, Holden recognized how unreliable he is and recognized what it would do to Phoebe's future. So he decided not to move, because Phoebe would have gone with him no matter what. Phoebe loves and care about Holden no matter what type of a person he is and Holden recognized and was able to make a good choice off of it.
Delete"You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking somebody'll sneak up and write 'Fuck you' right under your nose"(204).
ReplyDeleteThis is directly correlates to the events that just occurred with Mr. Antolini. Holden really followed and looked up to Mr. Antolini, he was the only one who would pick up the boy James Castle, he thought that D.B. should not move to Hollywood and be a sell out, Holden's role model was Mr. Antolini. He then lets Holden even sleep over at his house when he has nowhere to go, but then while Holden is sleeping he does this very inappropriate thing and starts patting Holden on the head and saying these inappropriate things. Holden cannot understand what is going on. This man who in Holden's eyes was nearly perfect had just done this. This ruined the image that Holden had of him and what was he supposed to do when now the man who had based himself off of was also just another phony. To Holden this was another 'F*** you' written on the wall. Holden realizes nothing ever can be perfect.
I understand and agree with your connection between the Mr. Antolini incident and the vandalism in the school. I think this is partially what fueled Holden's decision to leave everything and isolate himself in society. He feels that every time he feels he gets closer to the environment he seeks, he can't escape the "F*** you's" making him more distant from his dream such as his only role model in life older than him patting him on the head.
DeleteI also agree with the connection about Mr. Antolini. At first, Mr. Antolini's home seemed like a nice place that Holden could visit whenever he wanted. However, Holden didn't exactly seem to feel the same way after the awkward or "perverty" moment he had with Mr. Antolini.
DeleteI completely agree with this comparison of the "f*** you" and Mr. Antolini. I also think that if Holden moved past this idea of a place with no "f*** you's", like the cabin he spoke of, he would be able to accept that things aren't perfect and be okay with it. But instead, he drags on with his moping and his complaining, instead of opening his eyes a little.
Delete"This fall I think you're riding for-it's a special kind of fall, a horrible kind...The whole arrangement's designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn't supply them with. So they gave up looking"(207). This was said by Mr. Antolini, and for me, was the clearest and one of the most important quotes in the book about Holden. Throughout the book, I was looking for some sort of resolution or happy ending for Holden where he finally finds the solution to his constant hatred and depression-possibly by Jane's appearance in the book(which, ended up never actually happening). But after this conversation I realized the ending to the story would not end happily like many had hoped for. Holden is searching for something that he will never find. He hates phonies, but essentially everyone is a phony in the book simply because it is told through the lenses of Holden. Mr. Antolini tried to force a realization in Holden that a society where no one is a phony and everyone fits his perfect description is not realistic, he just has to adjust how he see's things to seek out the good in people. There wasn't a straightforward ending to the book, but I can assume that Holden didn't find this perfect society he longed for, and the downfall Mr.Antolini had described happened.
ReplyDeleteThis line also stood out to me. I agree with the points you made. Holden has high expectations of the world, and the environment he lives in. He hates "phonies", and everyone he seems to meet is a "phony" in his eyes, due to his lack of energy to actually get to know people. Living life with such high standards for the rest of the world can make anyone depressed, and the fact that Holden has had, throughout the book, a very negative outlook and opinion on people, has contributed to all of his negative actions and feelings. I agree that yes, there is no obvious "happy ending", but there is a very hopeful feeling at the end of the book that Holden will broaden his outlook on the world and the people in it.
Delete"I saw another "f**k you" sign... I tried to rub it off"
ReplyDeleteHolden views children much more differently than he does older people. He really does want to protect the innocence in children, especially Phoebe. Holden knows how fake the world is and he wants to protect children from believing it. He doesn't want kids to go to school just everybody says it's a good school. I think he wants to protect kids from following his path, being a phony, and let them have the ability to choose what they want to be.
I agree that Holden does feel this sense of responsibility towards the young and innocent, after all he does want to be "the catcher in the rye". Holden wants so badly to keep the world from influencing them. At the same time he frequently uses himself as an example of what not to be more so than others. to Holden being the catcher in the rye is a time for his redemption.
DeleteAlso, it's great that you mentioned the opinion about Pency. Holden Is obviously disgusted about how much peoples' opinions are influenced by each other. They all think the same about Pency because that's what everyone else is doing. It's almost like a bunch of girls going mad over twilight because it's so popular,yet failing to recognize the weaknesses of Bella. At least in that sense (having his own detached opinion) Holden is original. He can use it to gain the right to be "the catcher in rye".
I agree with the comment above. The sense that this is Holden's way of finally working things out a least a bit will matter for the rest of his life. Yet, if an opportunity like this is to be missed it would ruin him. Holden needs a sense of a pathway to find his place as the catcher in the rye. I think through Mr. Antolini, he can use that as his beacon of hope.
Delete"It's such a stupid question, in my opinion. I mean how do you know what you're going to do until you do it? The answer is, you don't. I think I am, but how do I know?" (234)
ReplyDeleteThe way Holden talks about whether or not he knows what he's going to do with himself next year gives me a feeling of repetition. all throughout the book Holden has spent his time thinking he knew what he was doing and where he was going, but not really knowing. he made split decisions and the one's he did think about, like whether or not to call Jane were never carried out. This quote, I think, is the revealing of what goes on next year, a repetition of what went on this year. this reveals that Holden is not very good at learning from his mistakes and that even though he takes the advise he's given seriously when spoken to him, he doesn't take it seriously enough to follow it. it's part of his demise and a contribution to his inevitable fall. Good luck to him.
I almost picked this quote because Holden gives me the impression that he still has not changed opinion on phonies and people. He makes his life sound like a new years resolution. As though he wants to accomplish this goal and make better decisions for his life, but may give up two months in. I completely agree with your statement about his fall and believe it may be to late for Holden to find a catcher in the rye.
DeleteI disagree with the comment above. While it's true that he does say that he doesn't know what life will bring, he has changed his views on many people. Throughout the last few chapters of the book, he completely stops calling people phonies because he has recognized that it isn't fair to do so. He also admits to missing the people he claimed to hate/dislike previously, showing that he probably regrets the things he has said about them. I think that although he says that, he's changed at least a little bit for the better.
Delete“I almost hated her. I think I hated her most because she wouldn't be in that play any more if she went away with me.” (pg. 227)
ReplyDeleteThroughout the whole book, Holden has had a soft spot for kids. However, when Phoebe wants to go and run away with Holden seems to realizes his actions have other people. Holden has spent most of the book following his emotions and going places he feels like going, whether it was smart to go there or not. When Phoebe decides she wants go with him, Holden acts as her catcher in the rye, by preventing her from doing what he had done, the week earlier: pack up and leave his school. He wants to convince her to stay in school so she can be in the play and get her education. Although Holden lashes out at Phoebe for thinking she could leave behind her play, he does this with good intentions Holden stops her from making the same mistake he made, and consequently, allowed Holden to realize he was about to make another mistake by leaving.
"I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it" (260)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows how much Holden wants to cherish any childhood innocence. Before this quote Holden sees somebody wrote "f*** you" (the real word is on the wall, just know there should be no language like that here) on the wall, and he hates that person even though he doesn't know who did it. Holden probably knows he messed up in his life, didn't stay a child for so long, and is regretting growing up to fast. Holden knows that you don't stay a child forever, and those around you can influence you, this writing is clearly a bad influence. Holden shows some sort of emotion here, which so far in the book has been rare to find from Holden.
"But while I was sitting down for a second, I saw something that drove me crazy. Somebody'd written 'Fuck you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it, and how they'd wonder what the hell it meant, and then some dirty kid would tell them..."
ReplyDeleteAt this point of the book, Holden is walking around the school and thinking about his own childhood. Suddenly, he sees that someone wrote "fuck you" on the wall. He is worried that if kids at the school see that, they will ask what that meant, especially Phoebe. Which will result into a negative child exposing the definition of "fuck you." Holden is worried because he doesn't want the kids to be spoiled, which he thinks will ruin their childhood. He thinks that "fuck you" is a word that adults might use, but there should be no profanity in kids childhood. To conclude, this is an example of kids falling from the cliff, however Holden saves them.
"I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it... I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it" (221).
ReplyDeleteThis quote reveals that Holden really cares for children. He doesn't want their innocence to be taken away or their childhood to be ruined. He actually tried to wipe off some of the curses on the walls. It really bugged Holden. He thought that children shouldn't have to see words like on the walls or anywhere. This quote seems significant because it relates to what Holden said that he wants to be—a catcher in the rye. He wants to catch the children who are about to fall off the cliff. It kind of seems like Holden wants to preserve and protect their innocence, which relates to him maybe not wanting to grow up.
"All she did was, she took off my red hunting hat-- the one I gave her-- a practically chucked it right in my face." (228)
ReplyDeleteThe red hunting hat is something that Holden holds very close to his heart. The hat represents innocence and is meant to shield oneself from the adult world. So it's a big deal when Phoebe decides she doesn't want it anymore. She's essentially saying that she has grown up and that she can't be protected by Holden anymore. That's really hard on him, because he's watching his little sister come to terms with her growing up so easily while he is so hung up on his loss of innocence. Once she finally takes it out again and puts it on his head, it's a bit like she's saying that although she doesn't need to be protected anymore, he still does, and she's there to do that.
" It played the same song about fifty years ago when I was a little kid. Thats one nice thing about carrousels, they always play the same songs." (pg. 231)
ReplyDeleteHolden, throughout the book, talks a lot about how much he doesn't like change and how much he likes things that don't change. This quote shows how how much he likes things that don't change because it shows how much his happy childhood means to him. These things that don't change help him preserve and keep the happy memories in his life which are the things most important in Holden's life. So many sudden changes have happened in Holden's life and most have been for the worst, this leads to his wanting for preserving memories. Also something similar Holden talks about is the Natural History Museum and the glass cases that preserve important, precious memories in time. The precious memories, in the cases, show an important event that impacted something else, just like Holden and the carousel.
This quote also stuck out to me. It is true, Holden decent like change, but when you think about it, he wants to change almost everything about his life! He doesn't want people to be phonies, he wants to live in the woods, and he wants social norms to change. I think that Holden doesn't want the small things, like the carousel songs, to change, but he wants the world to be different, as a whole, then it is now,
Delete"He was lying, sure as I'm alive, the little bastard." (pg. 223)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it brought up a question in my mind. Why is Holden mad at the kid, and calling him a "little bastard" for lying, when Holden is a liar himself? In fact, when he is talking to the kid and his friend, he starts lying about not knowing what a mummy is, just to horse around with them. Perhaps the reason it upset him was because it ties back to the idea that Holden respects "childhood innocence" and maybe to him, the fact that this kid is skipping school and lying about it, takes away some of his innocence, and we know how much Holden wants to preserve it.
I also was wondering the same thing while reading this. Another question I thought of was, does Holden even have a solid point of view on children? When he talked about Phoebe and Allie they are phenomenal kids, but it often changes. With these children it was different than how Holden acted with the girl in the park who he offered a cup of hot chocolate to. Holden wants to be the 'catcher in the rye' but is he doing that to benefit the kids and their future or to help him not have an inferiority complex?
Delete"A lot of people, especially this one psychoanalyst guy they have here, keeps asking me if I'm going to apply myself when I go back to school next September." (276 in the big book)
ReplyDeleteI thought this was such a twist ending. All throughout the book, it seemed like Holden did live up his dream to go and live in the woods somewhere remote and desolate. When he admits that he is in some sort of mental facility, the book almost wraps back to the beginning, when he talks about being psychoanalyzed after Allie's death. That is what it felt like lead him into this whole mess, that he wasn't getting talked to, just experimented on. I think that that is exactly why JD Salinger put this ending on this book. It shows Holden going through what he already went through with a happier state of mind. But this ending is bittersweet, making me sad to leave Holden. It was a great story and I think this ending was a perfect ending to it. Not a happy ending, but a glimpse into the future for Holden, a vary bright future.
*Sorry to get all cheesy at the end. Just liked the book...A LOT!
"A lot of people, especially this one psychoanalyst guy they have here, keeps asking me if I'm going to apply myself when I go back to school next September. It's such a stupid question"
ReplyDeleteJ. D. Salinger concludes his novel with Holden just as he started it. According to the quote, Holden still portrays the "I don't care" attitude like he did at the beginning of the story. This lack of character change frustrates me a lot, beacuse Holden continues to show a pursue in living life as if it meant little. Throughout the story I've wanted Holden to seek help and see the world differently. However, his past conflicted his decisions to make in the present. For example, the death of Allie is what really made the enormous impact to never really give life a second chance. This type of stubbornness also frustrates, because I often imagined what I would think of Holden if I met him. To be honest, I would stay from whatever group he'd affiliate with, because the type of opinions he held on others would degrade my opinion s on myself! All in all, "The Catcher in the Rye" was a sad yet different read. The portrayal of a depressed young man who was "out of place" in the world really put in perspective of what life would've been as Holden. It would be unhealthy to view life as he did.
This was an idea that I wanted to write about, but then I changed it and you couldn't be more correct with what you said about Salinger concluding his novel the same way he started it. With what you said about the I don't care attitude with Holden, I completely disagree with you because he always cared since the beginning. He actually passed in English, but couldn't pass the other subjects because he just couldn't focus. It wasn't really his fault because he tried focusing, but it didn't work. In the beginning Salinger writes," IF YOU REALLY WAT TO HEAR about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth." (3) "THAT'S ALL I'm going to tell about, I could probably tell you what I did after I went home, and how I got sick and all, and what school I'm supposed to go to next fall, after I get out of here, but I don't feel like it. I really don't. That stuff doesn't interest me too much right now." (234) Salinger doesn't want to get into the specifics in the beginning and the end because it doesn't matter to him. He tells us he doesn't want to say anything specific and that is what he does! What Holden does in the end is that David Copper field kind of crap that Salinger mentions. This is exactly why I agree with you so much.
DeleteI agree with you! Honestly, I thought that throughout the book, Holden was going to change and in the end, be able to view the world differently. I was really upset that he didn't. I feel like Holden doesn't realize how stubborn he really is and that to be happier, he should change the way he views everything.
Delete"I saw something that drove me crazy. Somebody''d written 'F**k you' on the wall. It drove me damn near crazy. I thought of how Pheobe and all the other little kids would see it, and how they'd wonder what the hell it meant, and finally some dirty kid would tell them--all cockeyed, naturally -- what it meant, and how they'd all think about it and maybe even worry about it for a couple of days, I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it. I figured it was some perverty bum that'd sneaked in the school late night to take a leak" (221)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stands out because Holden wants to do something good for little children. He still thinks there is hope for them to grow up as successful people that are all normal and not phonies. Holden also mentions that the person who wrote f**k you on the wall was a perverty bum. Holden himself is not very successful and always loves getting drunk and he calls another person a bum. Holden sees hope in smaller children and not himself and tries not to interfere with their lives negatively and only wants to help them. All this time he was thinking of the world as a cruel evil and phony place, but now he sees hope in society and tries to make a difference by erasing the f**k you written on the wall and to kill the person that wrote that.
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ReplyDelete"My hunting hat really gave me quite a lot of protection, in a way, but I got soaked anyway. I didn't care, though. I felt so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old Phoebe kept going around and around. I was damn near bawling, I felt so damn happy, if you want to know the truth."(275 big book)
ReplyDeleteI really like this quote because it shows us a side of Holden that we don't see so often in the book. Usually, Holden is more judgmental. Usually, Holden is more concerned about someone’s phoniness instead of actually seeing the good part in them. But when he sees Phoebe, he gets so happy he can barely control himself. I like that just by looking at his sister, Holden can feel happy. Earlier in class, we talked about how Holden likes children and it is probably because of their innocence. I think that right now Holden is noticing how innocent his sister is and really enjoys it. This might also be why Holden gets really mad when someone wrote “fuck you” in the staircases of the school. He wants his sister to stay innocent and that makes him happy.
"Among other things, you'll find that you're not the first person who was ever confused and frightened and even sickened by human behavior." (208)
ReplyDeleteMr. Antolini displays very unusual actions towards the end of the book however, he still is an extremely captivating character. The way Holden talks about him, he seems to almost praise him. He is intellectual, witty, and he was the only person who helped James Castle when he jumped out the window at Whooten. Holden was also happy that he could stay at his house that night. their conversation was very interesting. When Antolini said this too Holden it seemed to be a statement that not only makes sense to the reader but seems to clarify things for Holden. Throughout the book Holden is often very judgmental to strangers and acquaintances, referring to them as phonies.He seems to hate everything and Antolini does not want Holden to end up as an old man too busy being sore or angry and depressed, that he isn't even living his own life to the fullest.
Does Holden become more optimistic about people?
why weren't his feelings for Jane strong enough to make him actually call her?