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Please choose a line from the text, quote it (with the page number), and then ask a question based off of this line. Then, try to answer your own question. Dig deep. Perhaps try out a couple of potential answers. Perhaps, in your answer, provide a piece of textual evidence from earlier in the novel. YOU MUST ALSO RESPOND TO A CLASSMATE'S QUESTION.
Format:
"...." (#).
Question:
Nobody listens anymore. I can't talk to the walls because they're yelling at me. I can't talk to my wife; she listens to the walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough, it'll make sense..." Pp 82
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Are the walls the government? How is he going to make people hear him? What does he want to say?
Answer: I think yes the walls are symbolic for the government. And he's saying how the government is telling him to conform to rules. He feels trapped and he can't even talk to Wife because she's brainwashed by the government. Since he can't talk to his wife he'll find other ways to communicate his message to the world. I'm not exactly sure what his message is, maybe it's his concern for Clarisse. Maybe it's his thirst for knowledge of the past.
I (politely) disagree with you. The walls are literally the walls Mildred has in the living room. She's always watching TV in the living room, and so her attention is always drawn to the walls. She doesn't pay any attention to Montag and he doesn't want to pay attention to the walls because whenever he's near them, he feels like he's being yelled at by them.
DeleteTomas Benincasa
DeleteI agree with Lucas, even though I can see you point Alana. I think that you think that "the walls" refers to the TV and the "relatives" who are always talking, even though they are not real people. I think that Montag is simply trying to say that Mildred neglects him, and she prefers to interact to things that aren't real.
Alana, I think you're confused because she conforms. You saw this in the passage with Beatty. I, however, believe that even if that is what Bradbury where trying to say, It wouldn't be a good way of showing that Mildred is a conformist. I think this because she stayed by his side and concealed the books even when she was faced with the option to hand him in to Beatty.
I agree with you guys Lucas and Tomas that the walls are just walls, but I agree with Alana also that they do represent something. I just don't think they represent the government. I think the walls represent a filling purpose, like there filling something that is missing in there lives. For example, " The parlor was dead and Mildred kept peering at it with a blank expression..." (71). This shows what I was saying because she felt as without the walls "on" there was a dullness to the house a sense of loneliness. When the walls are turned on she feels alive and that she has something to live for, when in reality they aren't anything but fake things.
Delete"'No,' said Montag. My wife's dying. A friend of mine's already dead...."
ReplyDeleteWhy does Montag say that Mildred is dying? Do people nowadays tell people randomly that healthy loved ones are dying?
Obviously Mildred isn't actually dying, but Montag is using death as a figure of speech. Like said in Alana's quote, all Mildred really does anymore is watch the Walls in the living room. If I were Montag, I wouldn't consider her as dying, I would say that she's already been dead for a long time, lost to consumerism, and TV. I don't think people use language that dramatic these days, or at least I don't see it in my life, because I don't live a life (currently) of really dire circumstances. Also, in real life, I'm not sure people speak so poetically.
I agree with you here. I believe that Bradbury included those particular words to really highlight just how lost Mildred is within technology and other attractions. She is dead in the sense that she no longer thinks for herself and this must sadden Montag. In real life, people might not speak as poetically but I wouldn't know any other to word Mildred's mental absence.
DeleteBut Clarisse's favorite subject wasn't herself. It was everyone else, and me. She was the first person in a good many years I've really liked. She was the first person I can remember who looked straight at me as if I counted (72).
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Why did Montag look up to Clarrise? What exactly did he like about her?
Answer: We know that Montag obviously liked Clarisse because she was different and her persepctive opened his eyes to a whole new world. However, I think he was also fond of her because of the way that she spoke to him. He also says that she looked at him as if he really counted, which must of meant a lot to Montag. I do not think that Mildred treats Montag with compassion, nor makes him feel like an individual. Moreover, I think that Guy really craved that type of attention in which he felt special and like someone more than just a fireman. This made him draw closer to Clarisse.
I agree with you
DeleteClarisse gave him a trusting bond and helped him open his eyes to the real world. I agree i think Mildred doesn't treat him with respect or even really cares what he has to say which is why he able to form this bond with Clarisse so quickly.
I completely agree with you. She cared and actually looked at people for who they were. When Beatty said that people shouldn't know why someone was put together but simply how was enough, he made it sound like the people were just machines. Clarisse saw people as people who were individuals and thought of why they were a certain way. He admires her for this and wants to open others' eyes also.
DeleteI also agree with you and I also think that Mildred does not like Clarisse is because she never met her and might be jelous about the fact that Montag cares more for Clarisse then herself.
Delete"Nobody listens anymore. I can't talk to the wall because they're yelling at me. I can't talk to my wife ; she listens to the walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough it'll make sense."(pg.82)
ReplyDeleteDoes Montag feel in order for things to change he needs to speak up? What can be accomplished by speaking up? Why does Mildred listen to the walls?
I think he really need Clarisse in him life because she was someone he could always talj too and who would actually listen to him. She is also the sort of person he could tell anything to and not have her judge him. I think he feels as if his voice needs to be heard and he thinks the government will listen when in reality they just won't. Another part about this line that was significant was how Mildred "listens to the walls". Why does she listen to these walls, these things that aren't even reality more than she listens to her own husband? I think she is just so brainwashed by the government and isn't trying to fight it.
I totally agree with you. I think Montag desperately needs to talk to clarisse about whats happening in his life. I think when he says "she listens to the walls" I think he means it not really in a literal way. Although Mildred does listen to the walls, I think Montag is actually saying that Mildred just doesnt listen to him anymore. I think he uses technology as a nail into the coffin when he is describing how Mildred just doesnt care.
Delete"They sat in the hall because the parlor was so empty and gray-looking without its wall lit with orange and yellow confetti and skyrockets and women in gold-mesh dresses and men in black velvet pulling one-hundred-pound rabbits from silver hats." (71)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Is technology some people's escape from ordinary life? Is technology and this 'family' Mildred and the others from this society's way of escaping not just the dull side of life but also its hardships?
Answer: Going back to what Beatty said, if you don't like it, just burn. This, to me, follows the same logic. If you are shy and it's hard to make friends for you then just don't face people. Technology to them seems to be a way to 'fill the void'. Since they don't really think or get close and care for others, they still need something to replace it. This is when technology and this 'family' Mildred is so fond of comes in. Mildred seems to only care about the family and how amazing they are. But now that she sees the walls which were so grand and focuses on these books with no pictures just words that go on and on, she isn't able to see, to understand the meaning of these. There is a war going on where they are and it is probably quite scary so to hide from it and reality, Mildred for example shuts herself in and forgets about the world. I do think this is her way of escaping and I'm not saying we shouldn't have a place where we can just escape from what's going on but it becomes unhealthy when you never leave that place. What's especially sad is that since all she watched was technology which is just smokes and mirrors, she can't look at a book and try to read between the lines.
I wouldn't say that technology is an escape from ordinary life, i can see what you're getting at, but i wouldn't use those words. Technology is definitely an escape for some people, but to them, this is ordinary life. Technology provides an opportunity to escape the trials of natural life, and see what you want to see. When this option is at a person's disposal, it can take over their life, because it is tailored to their tastes. The technology almost achieves what the government is trying to achieve- tailored happiness for everyone. It is dangerous to give people an escape from the hardships of life, because when they stay boxed in, without lows, they begin to loose their sense of happiness.
DeleteTomas Benincasa
ReplyDelete"Is that what was in the girl next door? I've tried so hard to figure."
"She's dead. Let's talk about somebody alive for godness' sake." (Page 72)
Why is Mildred so blunt? Why does she resent Clarisse?
This quote immediately stood out to me. At the beginning of my reading, I couldn't help but notice how Mildred so despises Clarisse. I feel that she feels threatened by Clarisse, be it because Clarisse is an intellectual woman, or if it be how obsessed Montag is obsessed with her. I feel that it also has to do with the fact that Clarisse is a rebel. I think during the scene with Beatty, Mildred showed that she bows down to the government. I think that being a conformist, she feels that all rebels, or people with a different opinion, should be isolated and alienated.
As to why Mildred is so blunt, i think i know the answer. I believe that because Mildred lives within the "Wall TV" and her "Seashells", she doesn't feel human emotion quite like everyone else. I think she feels little empathy, so she doesn't care if others are in pain or struggle.
I completely agree with you, Tomas. Mildred blocks herself from the world with her "Wall TV" so she wouldn't have to face her problems. This shows that she mostly cares about herself rather than others. As you mentioned, Mildred might be jealous that Montag likes Clarisse probably more than he likes her. She obviously doesn't care if Clarisse is alive or not because in the previous chapter, she said she forgot about Clarisse's death.
DeleteTomas I really agree with your point. I think Mildred resents Calrisse because she's jealous that Clarisse was able to know Montag on a level Mildred could never reach like Clarisse could. Mildred is so blunt because she can't connect with Montag so whatever she wants to say, she has to come right out and say it because Montag and Mildred don't know each other on a level where they can tell how one another feels.
DeleteI also agree very much, I think that Mildred also might actually be concerned with Montag's interactions with Clarisse, not in a romantic way, but in a way were she is intemidated by her presents, not only has she made Montag think more about society and how corrupt it is, she is also is seen by Montag as a person who he cares a lot about, possibly more than Mildred.
Delete"Jesus God," said Montag. "Every hour so many damn things in the sky! How in hell did those bombers get up there every single second of our lives! Why doesn't someone want to talk about it! We've started and won two atomic wars since 1990! Is it because we're having so much fun at home we've forgotten the world? Is it because we're so rich and the rest of the world's so poor and we just don't care if they are?...Do you know why? I don't, that's sure! Maybe the books can get us half out of the cave. They just might stop us from making the same damn insane mistakes!" (Bradbury 73-74)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Is Montag changing his perspective in society? Why does he care so much about books and what books can do to their lives?
Answer: Montag is changing his perspective in society. He is so frustrated on how the people around him are brainwashed and follows what the government says. In the previous chapters, Montag starts to wonder about his surroundings because of Clarisse. Clarisse might have led him to read books. Montag is starting to ask questions and is getting more curious about books. Also, the first part of this passage refers back to what we talked about in class today about war. He realizes that there are so many bombers and planes in the air, yet no one asks WHY they keep passing over in the sky. Montag is saying that no one cares about the war and the cause of it. As we discussed in class today, the people in this society don't think about the war or question it. In my opinion, the government brainwashes these people in order to maintain power and control over their lives. This quote clearly shows that Montag is bothered by how he doesn't know the real meaning of books and what they teach him. He is starting to wonder why books are special and he's going to read one to find out. He doesn't want to be one of the brainwashed people in the society. Montag wants to be different like Clarisse. Montag is going to start to read books to find answers and this foreshadows that he's going to rebel against the government.
But Clarisse's favorite subject wasn't herself. It was everyone else, and me. She was the first person in a good many years I've really liked. She was the first person I can remember who looked straight at me as if I counted (72).
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What did Montag find so special about Clarisse?
Montag admires Clarisse because she is a symbol for curiosity. In the beginning of section two, Montag and Mildred are both reading in the hallway, because the parlor is way too plain. The colors in the hallway represent the curiosity, the thing Montag is striving for. Clarisse is always thinking about things that happened in the past or might happen in the future. She asks questions about why things happen, while everyone else just reacts to stimuli. Her questions are the reason Clarisse was killed.
I agree with your idea but I also think there's more to the reason why Montag really liked Clarisse. I do agree that she is a symbol for curiosity but like the quote said " She was the first person I can remember who looked straight at me as if I counted." She payed attention to him and valued his opinions which isn't something Montag is used to, especially not from his wife. They had meaningful conversations that impacted Montag and he missed being able to have those discussions. Clarisse wasn't also self-centered like Mildred is, she cared about other people, life and the world.
DeleteI agree with you because that what makes Montag fall for Clariesse and grow more distant from Mildred. Especially since Mildred was a very self centered person who really only cared about herself. On the other hand Clariesse cared about other people which what made Montag fall in love with Clariesse
Delete"Montag stood there and waited for the next thing to happen. His hands, by themselves, like two men working together, began to rip the pages from the book. The hands tore the flyleaf and then the first and then the second page... Who can stop me? I'm a fireman. I can burn you!" (84)
ReplyDelete.
Question: Why does Montag refer to his hands as ripping the pages and not himself? Why did Montag rip the papers if he wanted Professor Faber to help him, why would Montag be so mean?
Answer: When Montag first stole the book he referred to his hands stealing it, not himself. Again we see him say this when he rips up the papers of the Bible. I believe he says it his hands because he has not yet coped with the fact that he has changed and his views are different. His ideas have changed from burning books to preserving and reading them and he is scared. He has seen and done things to the people who have kept the books and now he is one of them and he's confused. This is why he says it's his hands, it's a way of putting the blame on something else. He views it as an impulse, his hands grabbing for the book and tearing it. I also believe Montag acted so mean to Professor Faber because he has tried to reason with him already and that hasn't worked so now he results to bullying. He knows Faber would do anything to have the bible and to destroy it like Montag was doing was terrible for him to see. Montag is in a sense blackmailing Faber to do what he wants. Montag gets to make a copy out of the bible and Faber gets to have a copy too.
I agree with the idea that Montag views his hands as a separate, uncontrollable part of his body. I don't think he can fully understand how his view of the world has changed, and he is doing what he was taught not to do, so he sees it as just his hands doing these actions but not him. He doesn't want to admit to himself that it is him who has these ideas and who is becoming a rebel like Clarisse, so he puts it upon his hands. When he pulls the books he was hiding out of their hiding place in his house, he describes his hands pulling them out, and dropping them on the floor, which is another example of how he doesn't want to take on the responsibilities of his actions.
Delete" ' We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop which makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses there is at last one which makes the heart run over,' ... ' Is that what it was in the girl next door? I've tried so hard to figure.' " (71-72).
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Why don't the people in this society know what friendship is? Does this also mean they don't know what love and all these other things and emotions are?
Answer: I think the people in this society don't know what friendship is because they weren't exposed to it. Like for example, we know about a lot of things or know what they were or are because we are able to either read it or learn about it. I think that because they aren't exposed to the media like we are today or books like we are they don't know about things like love, friendship, and all those other emotions. Also because in this society everybody is exactly the same as everyone else give or take a few people that they don't know how to be different so they are always experiencing the same emotions. Also I feel as if everyone has emotions they just don't which way to let it out they just take the way the government as led it out for them like smashing windows and stuff like that. Like Montag had a lot of thoughts in his head but just didn't voice them,but when Clarisse came he was able to voice them. Just like with the rest of society they have something to say, but they probably don't want to voice in case of seeming different from everyone else and nobody likes to feel like an outcast.
I agree with you here, Genasia. They are only exposed to traditional education on maths and film and technology, but nowhere are they taught about life or manners. And since they aren't taught that by either teachers or their parents, they don't have a base to start off on. Like in today's society, teachers don't exactly teach you how to act, but your parents do. So we tend to grow up and make friends based on how our parents and others around us do it/act. But just like you said, books, the media, and other exposures also contribute to it too.
Delete"How in hell did those bombers get up there every single second of our lives!" pg 73
ReplyDeleteQ: How does a people not notice that there are war machines flying over head? How blind do you have to be?
A: You have to be repressed by the government and forced to look the other way and to have walls around you. When Montag starts to read the walls are lifted and he can finally see what kind of a society he lives in, a society where the government controls your life and the way you think. This shows just how brainwashed this society is and how ignorant they are to the world
"I've heard rumours; the world is starving, but we're well fed. Is it true, the world works hard and we play? Is that why we're hated so much? ...The telephone rang. Mildred snatched the phone. 'Ann!' She laughed" (73-74).
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Why does Mildred avoid problems? Why did she ignore Montag?
Answer: I think Mildred ignores Montag in this part because she is afraid of thinking about such a scary thought, that every one else in the world hates them because they just "play" while the rest of the world suffers and works. So she deals with this by just ignoring Montag and picking up the phone instead of having to think about what he said. She does this because she was taught to do this by the government as a child. In school, they watched TV and played sports and weren't taught about their history or the rest of the world. So she doesn't want to think about anything other than her happy world, because she doesn't know anything about it. It's sort of a fear of the unknown.
I agree with you here Teo. I also think Mildred does this because she doesnt really know how to clearly think things through. Shes always ignoring Montag and swerving his thoughts or ideas maybe because shes jealous that she cant have a deep thought process like him...
DeleteShe copes with this by being bitter and tuning Montag out with the T.V walls and the telephone.
I agree with both of you here. I think that Mildred avoided dealing with these issues because of the lack of education she was given when she was a kid. Also, like we talked about in class that Montag and Mildred are married yet she doesn't really listen to what Montag talks about and it is kind of a one way relationship.
DeleteI also agree with the both of you, Mildred has probably had an easy life mostly play, and not that many problems because she's avoiding them. Since the government has tried to fix every problem there not that many problems to face the government, the government has made it so people avoid thinking about problems if they have them to just avoid them.
DeleteI really agree with you in that Mildred was taught to do so by her government, but I don't believe that she doesn't want to think about it at all. I believe she was a person who wanted to know the truth: an older equivalent of Clarisse, maybe, but an equivalent that made the wrong choice to give up. Clarisse made the choice to perhaps die for what she believed in, while Mildred gave up to live a life she is upset with.
Delete"Number one: Do you know why books such as this are so important? Because they have quality. And what does the word quality mean? To me it means texture. The book has pores. It has features. [...] the more pores, the more truthfully recorded details of life you can get on a sheet of paper..." (83)
ReplyDeleteIs this the main reason as to why the government is trying to get rid of the existence of books? By pores, what does Faber exactly mean?
For me, I do think it is one of the main reasons as to why the government is trying to get rid of these books. All these books have some kind of symbolic meaning that relates to something in the outside world or maybe a huge problem they've noticed and they are trying to portray and put light on it, but through plot and characters. Like on page 59, Beatty talks about how White people don't enjoy Uncle Tom's Cabin and Colored people don't like Little Black Sambo. So burning these books that contain these "pores" can prevent conflicts like riots and boycotting and such for "rights". I believe that the government truly believes in "what you see can't hurt you." And by pores, I think Faber means the little meanings and symbolic values the authors like to include into their stories so while the reader is getting entertainment, they're also allowed to have a head start into deeper thinking of a certain topic. It's just that it's pretty hard to see these topics, since they are pretty much covered up by the little things in the book. This, in Faber's opinions, contributes to a book's quality, which is what makes it so great.
I agree with you that books having “texture” and “pores” is an important reason for why the government wants to destroy them. This is possibly because “pores” are hidden details and information, causing readers to think more about what their reading. Because reading causes one to think deeply, and because they are able to have time to take a break from their reading, they very easily form their own opinions about the topic at hand. Not only do pores shed light to huge problems as you said, but they also simply cause people to form their own opinions. However, the government wants people to only think what they want them to think. So with television, viewers take everything in all at once, and very easily believe whatever they are watching instead of forming their own opinions, as the government wants.
Delete"Nobody listens anymore. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough it'll make sense."(pg.82)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What does Montag mean? Will things actually differ if people understand what he has to say?
Answer: This quote immediately stood out to me when I saw it. Montag is finally realizing that that things aren't normal in his society. People there don't think, or question, or even listen. The only person that did is Clarisse, and she's missing or dead. I think thats hitting Montag EXTREMELY hard. She was the only person who was different, and had her own opinion. She was curious and made Montag be able to be curious too. Now that she has spread that to him, he wants to do the same. Montag cant notice that the people around him are brainwashed and cant be intrigued by anything but technology. If they were to understand and feel what he feels, I think that it wouldn't turn out good. The government is obviously trying to hide something from these people, and if they start becoming interested in things and start to talk more and more there will be a problem.
"we have everything we need to be happy, but we aren't happy. Something's missing. I looked around. The only thing I positively knew was gone was the books I'd burned in ten or twelve years. So I thought the books might help." (82)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What is Ray Bradbury saying about the government's intentions for widespread contentment and happiness, versus the reality?
Answer: I think that Bradbury is saying that the government is trying to make everyone happy, but in order for everyone to be happy, they all have to be the same. This is because as Beatty said, everything offends one kind of person, so if there was only one kind of person, nobody would ever be offended or upset. This ideology has lead the government to try to achieve uniformity. The flaw is that it is impossible to achieve this. Everything has its fans, and those that don't like it. Trying to ban something like books, because certain people are offended by the contents, actually hurts the fans of books. The government will never be able to do right by everybody.
“The books are to remind of us of what asses and fools we are. They're Caesar's Praetorian guard...”(86)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Why does this apply to every book? How would these books remind you of how much of a fool you are if you can't read them, therefore how would you change?
Answer: I think that this statement is said because the government believes that each book gives a certain opinion to each person that can create controversy yet, I believe that everyone being the same can be a good idea in theory but once it actually is in place, people start to see that their lives are quite plain. I also think that the government wants to hide the past mistakes of the nation that were written. However I don't understand how this would relate to each book that is written. If the governments main idea is to aim for peace, why would they burn a book that was written about peace. My second question is how can someone see how they are a fool and change what they are doing wrong by reading a book, when you can't own them. I think that the government's definition for fool is someone who is opinionated and unique or separate from society and books help you see that. However, I find this statement to be a contradiction because the government is trying to say that in a way you learn from your mistakes or in this case from books, but you can't change your mistake if you didn't see what you did wrong.
I agree with the point you're trying to make. I also want to add that books are only viewed as negative symbols to the people, since they don't actually know what they are or what's inside of them. They only see it as something that should be avoided at all costs. In addition, with all the distractions of what happen in their lives, they don't really have questions or curiousity on what they could be actually about, just a vague general idea of the opinion the governement puts on them.
Delete"Does the White Clown love you?"
ReplyDeleteNo Answer.
"Millie, does-" He licked his lips. "Does your family lover you, love you very much, love you with all their heart and soul, Millie?" (Page 77)
Q: Does Montag ask this question to try to find out what Mildred really takes the time to notice, besides her electronics ?
A: I think that Montag asks Mildred that question so see if she notices her family ,care and love her towards her. Mildred usually just blocks out the world and every one who tries to talk to because, on one page (I don't remember that page) Montag tells us that he cant even have a conversation with her for longer than two minuets because she has the sea shells, and chooses not to hear of listen to anyone really. Mildred doesn't really pay attention to any thing besides her electronics and self. Like when Montag is sick and he has to ask Mildred more then one time to get Montage aspirin pills because she doesn't hear him or maybe chooses to ignore him. But what I'm basically try to say is Mildred doesn't really pay attention to anything but electronics and he's try to make her notice that she doesn't really notice people caring for her because she so involved in her electronics.
I believe that Mildred is more then what she might seem. By what I mean is that to some extent, Mildred might really is happening, or just know because of what is happening, she is not happy. This can do to what led her to her suicide attempt and how everything finally got to her. I believe Mildred might be using technology as probably as a shield to protect herself from the truth which she doesn't want to hear. Technology is probably the most resourceful and abundant thing in this futuristic society, so she turns it into her protector. Mildred always has the sea shells, and wants the 4th wall put in so bad because she just want to fully isolate herself from the world, and live with the parlor family which will adapt to her needs.
DeleteWell I agree with you. But I think you should also think that maybe he is just trying to have a conversation with his wife like how would with Clarisse because he really does enjoy the conversations he has with her and is trying to recreate it with his wife. Or maybe he just needed someone to talk to and she was there and they did not really talk that much and he wanted to start now. But over all i do agree with what you are saying.
Delete"Nobody listens anymore. I can't talk to the walls because they're yelling at me. I can't talk to my wife; she listens to the walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough, it'll make sense." (Pg. 82)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What does he mean by if he talks “long enough?” Will he make sense of things? Will people begin listening?
This quote immediately stood out to me. I’m not going to talk about the government because I looked through the other comments, and I see people already have. I’m going to say that just from this passage, the whole book could be giving a life lesson that you don’t really realize you have an opinion until someone allows you to have one, figuratively and literally. In this case, that person was Clarisse. Now that she’s gone, he doesn’t have that person anymore. But he now has these opinions, and they can’t go away, so my opinion is he’s just trying to get them out and actually be human—not a human living in this dystopian society, but a human that is really living.
I agree with you, but only if it is put in a certain perspective. In this society, yes, you need help from another person to actually start to think. Literature is like fuel to an engine (metaphorically speaking), a teacher of though. In today's society, you are believed to be a better thinker if you read a lot, but in Montag's society, thinking means that you are crazy.
Delete'"She's dead. Lets talk about someone alive, for goodness'sake"'..."'That's my favorite subject, Myself.' He squinted at the wall. "That's my favorite subject, Myself.' 'I understand that one,' said Mildred."' Pg.68
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this it really made me think is she really the self centered? Or is it just that she is trying to cope and this is how she is doing it, by being rude and self centered.
I think that Mildred to a point is self centered that she only cares for her self and no one else. But then I have to think she spends most of her time alone at home just watching TV and it makes me think that maybe she just feels alone and depressed. So to over come that she needs people to pay so much attention at her and only her. Then having a husbandmen like Montag I think that if she would just talk to him he would try to help and understand her, but now that he is reading.
I agree with you eleanor, but I also think that Mildred is just jealous. She just wanted to see how Montag really thinks of her, because she knows Montag is a different person when Clarisse is around. She feels no one cares for her so she feels bad for herself, so she seeks for attention. Deep inside, Mildred is damaged but she feels that she needs to hide it since no one has noticed that yet.
Delete"Can you help me in any way tonight, with the Fire Captain? I need an umbrella to keep off the rain. I'm so damned afraid I'll drown if he gets me again." (89)
ReplyDeleteWhy is Holden using water as a metaphor? What is he really asking for?
This quote confused me but was very interesting. I think that he isn't actually asking for an umbrella from Faber but for some sort of protection or help to deal with his job and the fear of being "burned". Also he says he''ll drown himself possibly because he is suicidal, but I think the main reason is that it's a way of saying he will do anything to the extent of death to avoid Beatty and the rest of his crew (also fire can't burn water so they can't get to him). This seems to be a way for Montag to say that he is tired with is job and can't stand it. Overall, I think this line is a way for Montag officially deciding that he is ready for a change in his life.
I agree that while he has the book on him he feels a "fiery sensation" that he's never felt before, and I think that this scares him as well. Also I think that it's ironic that he is "scared" of the rain in this quote but is a fireman who deals with fire, so it's almost being scared of something that you have no knowledge in.
Delete"That was all there was to it, really. An hour of monologue, a poem, a comment, and then without eith acknowledging the fact that Montag was a fireman, Farber, with a certain trembling, wrote his address on a slip of paper. "For your file," he said, "in case you decide to be angry with me."
ReplyDelete"I'm not angry," Montag said surprised
This line stood out to me because it showed how people think in this society. While Montag was talking to the former English professor, he automatically assumed that Montag would go "tell on him" about his knowledge on books and literature. Without even mentioning that he was a fireman, their society is so strict to protect their citizen's knowledge and to limit what they can interpret, so they can cut off their source of thinking. I think that Montag was surprised at this because he thought that an English professor would have more of an opinion and not feel as suppressed from the government that they would stand behind books as if it was they believed in. I think that also seeing your society change (from the point of view from Farber) must be very difficult, because he was in a time era before where reading and writing and English overall was accepted, and finding people who want to talk about literature with is hard as well. All in all I think that they both are surprised at each other's reactions, because they both didn't expect the other person to be exactly who they seemed to be.
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ReplyDelete"She's dead. Let's talk about somebody alive for godness' sake." (Page 72)
DeleteThis quote stood out to me because you can really tell from this quote how much Mildred hates Clairesse. I believe that Mildred doesn't like Clairesse because she is very smart. Mildred doesn't want to lose Montag to Clairesse especially since Montag is quite literally obsessed with her. I also feel like they are complete opposites: Clairesse is a rebel, and Mildred is loyal to the government.
"I said nothing. I'm one of the innocents who could've spoken up and out when no one would listen to the 'guilty', but I did not speak and thus became guilty myself. And when they finally set the structure to burn the books, using the firemen, I grunted a few times and subsided, for there were no others grunting or yelling with me, by then. Now it's too late." Page 82
ReplyDeleteOne question that came to mind when I read this passage is: was there an retaliation from the citizens when this law was passed? Also, was Faber a rebellious figure amongst the general society? Faber is the oldest character to appear in the book by far, and he must be REALLY old, because he was a professor 40 years before the setting in the book. With that being said, this "no book" law must not be as old as I previously believed. I thought that it was at least 150 years old, but it is only around 50. It also seems like the citizens didn't care that the government was passing laws such as this; if your house was fireproof, and had TVs the size of walls, would that law be the first thing on your mind? This society might not have any religion, either, because nobody has read the Bible, and that book is all Christianity, and other religions are centered around. I'm going to end this response with this... Was there a Holy war before Montag's time?
"Do you know that books smell like nutmeg or some some spice from a foreign land? I love to smell them when I was little boy. Lord, there was a lot of lovely books once, before we let them go." (pg.81)
ReplyDeleteWhy does Faber think of books this way and how does this relate how books are seen to others?
I believe that Faber has a deep place for books, not only because he was an English teacher but also because of how he speaks of them. Faber like only few now have the experience of books before the privilege of owning them was taken away. Others like Mildred or Montag have only lived a life of books being out of reach, which makes it harder to understand the true meaning of the literature. people say the moment in a person's life when they understand and absorb more is when they're children, with Mildred and Montag being not only absent to this time to learn, but told reading books as wrong, just makes books hard to understand. Mildred has already given up on trying to comprehend the literature, but inspiration brought by Clarisse, has motivated him to seek someone with a passion of the readings. When the books were described as smelling like spices from a foreign land I think would sort of show how exotic of different the books can be to a person, which is the whole reason for the censorship. Then again, the great thing about books is they give you knowledge which can be interpreted differently, the problem is what is done with the knowledge, which for the government is best to get rid of completely.
“ ‘Books aren’t people. You read and I look around, but there isn’t anybody! … Why should I read? What for?’ ” (p. 69).
ReplyDeleteWhy can’t Mildred understand that books can be just as interesting as movies/ TV? Why does she like TV so much more than books? Do people in our society tend to prefer television to books? If so, why?
I think part of the reason that Mildred prefers technological programs to books is that her ‘family’ on TV is personalized to make them seem like real people. For example, Mildred tells Montag, “ ‘my ‘family’ is people. They tell me things; I laugh, they laugh! And the colors!’ ” (p. 69). From the very start of the book, Bradbury gave the impression that Mildred is very unhappy, and she even tries to kill herself. I think that she’s very lonely, and so she goes to her TV family for company and ‘friendship’. She doesn’t think books are ‘real’ because they are not programmed to be personalized to her. However, I think that books are actually way more real than television, and that is partly why Mildred, or others in her society, doesn’t like them. Books often discuss real world issues that can be dark or depressing, but television programs only talk about simple and ‘happy’ topics that people want to hear. In fact, technology is a distraction from the real world, which in this case is filled with bomber jets and suicide.
This somewhat relates to today’s society. Today, I think that television has become more popular than literature. However, I don’t think this is necessarily for the same reasons as in Fahrenheit 451. TV today is not personalized like in Montag’s society, nor, in my opinion, does it only discuss uninteresting and happy topics. However, television is much easier to take in than books are, and so people prefer to be able to shut their brains off, in a way, and not have to really think very deeply about what they are thinking, unlike when reading. I also think that, similarly to in Fahrenheit 451, television is often used as a way to escape the real world, as well as all the troubles that might come with it, and focus more on the stories that you seen on TV.
I completely agree with you here. When you read you have to use your imagination to make the character seem real, where on TV its there for you. You don't have to do anything. Also book characters won't always relate and interact with Mildred like the TV does. Her parlor is personalized to know her and be friends with her, but with books she doesn't get to chose how the characters are going to act and whether or not she will like them.
Delete"Jesus God' said Montag. Every hour so many damn things in the sky! How the hell did those bombers get up there every single second of our lives! Why does no one want to talk about it! We've started and won two atomic wars since 2022! Is it because we've been having so much fun at home that we have forgotten the world? Is it because we are so rich and the est of the world is so poor that we just don't care that they are?" (Page 69, I Have a different book from everyone else)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Does this apply to our society today?
Answer: I think it defiantly does! People in this country are very oblivious and ignorant sometimes, I'm not saying all are, but a a large amount are and the truth is that they dont even know it. This country is again, relative to the rest of very rich (in relation to the rest of the world) and lets be honest, how much do you really know about the war that is going on right now? is it always a big deal? How often is it in the news? Compared to a lot of other wars in the past, the war the america is in right now is not nearly as well spoken about as the past wars that ths country has been in, this can be said about a lot of other things, like poverty in the world, and how we like to believe thy we do everything to help people in unfortunate circumstances, most of the time we just tune the unfortunate stuff out, which is very easy in a place like America.
"We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop which makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses there is at last one which makes the heart run over." (pg. 71)
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read this, this brought me back to my original thought that I had in the beginning of the book: Does anyone in this society have emotion? Or is everything about competition and being the best? Then I realized, Clarisse is the only one who does have true emotion and observes her society in the view of a bird's eye (birds eye view). Even Mildred, the way she holds herself makes Montag more on the negative/ down side, and he seeks for happiness, things that are different to him. QUESTION: Can this be the reason why he admires Clarisse? I believe this is why he wants to be around her, she has more of a positive energy than anyone else. He believes she is so clever and is intrigued on how her mind works. In one of the previous passages, he felt something was wrong, because he wasn't around her, which made him worry. He hardly felt something like this with Mildred and how Clarisse presented herself, he admired because he wanted happiness, he wanted to stay out of the negative energy that was surrounding him. All the technology and changes, and he just wanted to feel cared about (clarisse exposed him to it, people don't know what real friendships/manners/ emotions, because they aren't surrounded by that energy) and stay away from whats happening in his society. Not that Mildred didn't care, but Clarisse introduced to him what friendship is which is why I believe he seeks for more.
""Jesus God" said Montag "Every hour so many damn things in the sky! How the hell did those bombers get up there every single second of our lives! Why does no one want to talk about it! We've started and won two atomic wars since 1990! Is it because we've been having so much fun at home that we have forgotten the world? Is it because we are so rich and the rest of the world is so poor that we just don't care that they are? I've heard rumors; the world is starving, but we're well fed"
ReplyDeleteIs Clarisse the one that made Montag start having interest in this? Has no one else realized this about their society? Do people realize but just push it out of their heads because it is not them in the bad situation? Who would spread these rumors? How did they find out? Are people allowed to travel?
I think that people have noticed things like Montag just did. They realize that this is happening but don't want to speak up for fear of what might happen to them. Either they could get punished by the government of they would just be punished by society. They also don't want to think about that people are starving out there yet they can still be well fed. People may want to say or do something about this but they don't want to lose their privileges.