Monday, November 26, 2012

G-BAND: Color of Water Chapters 3 & 4


Post your reader responses here: Choose a line from the text and explain why it stands out to you. Does this line shock you, confuse you, or seem important in some way? Does it make you ask a question? Can  you make a connection to your life or another text? What is this line saying about people, or the world, in general?

Then, respond to someone else's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward. Ask more questions to keep the dialogue going...

58 comments:

  1. "I have my legal paper in the shoe box under my bed... I kept that paper on my person whenever I went for over twenty years. That was my protection". -pg. 16

    I thought that this quote was significant because I now have a better understanding of James McBride's mother, Rachel Shilsky, because now I can understand her insecurity of authority figures. Rachel states that her father would threaten to throw her out of the country and back to Europe where Rachel's mother spent most of her life running from Russian soldiers. So, having her legal documents always gave he a sense of reassurance because she could never feel completely safe in one place. Rachel probably has the dire need to isolate her children to the house and make sure that they do not give out information to any authority figure because of her insecurity with her father. Rachel's mental state of understanding is also discouraged due to the fact that her family rejected any amount of ideas or questions. Rachel's family tabooed crucial topics like why women cover their heads and the confusion of death. This scene also reminded me of Angela's Ashes a little bit because McCourt's mom would always give vague answers to never fully satisfy the curious mind of little Frank. I also found the Frank and James McBride are somewhat alike because they did not accept the "little" that they knew and ended up searching for their own truths.

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    1. I agree, I also made that connection between Angela's Ashes and The Color of Water. I agree with your blog post. I also think that since Rachel has insecurities about her father, authority figures and etc.it adds on to why Rachel is dependent on religion and faith. I think Rachel uses Religion as a coping mechanism to protect herself from her past and people that would want to hurt her or her family.

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    2. I agree with you both 100%. I think the connection between Angela's Ashes and The Color of Water is outstanding. To add on to what Crystal said, I think that Rachel not only uses religion as a coping mechanism but being secretive. I think that Rachel doesn't tell her children about her past because shes afraid that they will tell the worng people. Maybe the information that they are giving out will land on the wrong persons lap and then maybe Rachel will have to live her fear, her being dragged back to Poland.

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  2. "When I asked her where she was from, she would say,God made me, and change the subject"(pg 21)

    I chose this quote because, it reminds me of Angela's Ashes. This quote conveys how parents don't take the time respond to a child's question as well as in Angela's when Malachay is asking his dad about the cows. However, in The Color of Water, James's mom responds in a vague way to protect herself and James from her hurtful past. I also think James's mom responded saying god made her to illustrate how comforting her religion is to her and how strong her belief in god is.

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    1. I agree, because in Angela's Ashes Frank McCourt had a lot of questions that were never answered in his childhood. I also think that this relates to the religious views of the McCourt family in Angela's Ashes because she is saying that God made her.

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    2. i agree with what you annalyzed in this quote, because going back to Frank McCourt , McCourt was isolated from the outside world; he had to figure things on his own or put together the information. And when i think about this quote, i also think about why would the mom not want her kid to know the straight foward facts? Maybe because she wants her child to be able to put together things based off of there own opinion, not others , so that they would know whats best for themselves and society.

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    3. I agree it is like Angela's Ashes in the way that both parents only give vague answers ti their children about concepts that are hard to explain, but I think that she may have answered so vaguely and been so quick to change the subject because James' mother does not like discussing concepts of identity. She refuses to call herself "white," and she doesn't like talking about her history and past.

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    4. Looking through the posts, I see several connections between Color of Water and Angelas Ashes. They are surprisingly simular. Both live a community where one parent is not quite accepted. They also share the struggle of poverty. They both are immigrant (although James is a second generation immigrant). The two childhoods even happened at around the same time (im not sure, but i think both are around WW2-ish). Frank and James childhoods have many similarities.

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  3. "She insisted on absolute privacy, excellent school grades, and trusted no outsiders of either race." p. 27
    This line stood out to me because it shows how James' mother was very protective. It also seems like she did not know that much about parenting because even from when her children were very young, she rarely let them play and forced them pay attention to only schoolwork. Also, since she told them never to give their information to anybody, she was was preventing them from developing relationships with or becoming close to other people. She probably thought doing this would be beneficial to her children and would make them safer, but I think that the way she raised them would create problems in their future. When James' mother was growing up, her family was very serious and even though they al loved each other, they weren't exactly close, which is maybe why she is so protective of her children.

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    1. I think that the reason why she is teaching her children to keep to themselves is because that is how she was taught as a young kid. She lived through the Hitler time period and being a Jew she was taught to keep to herself and not share any details about her home life because that could get her family and herself killed. I think she finds is easier to just past down the rules to her kids so that they never have to be questioned by other people because in a way she and her kids are reliving it. They are colored people with a white mother in a segregated time period.

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  4. " I saw the Black Panther waving at his son. Mommy waved at me. Neither seemed to notice each other. "

    In this part of the book James is on the bus leaving for camp when he finds out that the man standing next to his mother is a Black Panther.

    This party stood out to me because this is the first time where James gets a. Glimpse of what peace looks like between blacks and white. Throughout his younger life people always snickered and commented about his mother being white and him black. Even though Black Panthers refer to whites as the " White Devil," there is no conflict going on between the man and his mother.

    I think that because the mother thinks she belongs in the sea of colored people that others thinks she belongs as well, because she doesn't act like shes out of place, a white person in the middle of Harlem is perfectly normal to her. She is simply there to see her son off to camp.

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    1. I partly agree with you. I think that James because of others is starting to notice different races. She doesn't understand why her mother is the only white person and because she is she's starting to notice small things such as her mom waving at her versus a black father waving at his son. I think because she is starting to see this difference between her mother and this man she can't understand why they don't notice it too. I wonder why she cares so much about this difference.

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  5. " 'Suppose Zaydeh isn't dead? Suppose he wakes up to find out he's buried?' " But a child in my family didn't ask questions. You did what you were told."

    This quote really stood out to me because i was able to relate it back to Frank McCourt's book, when McCourt was asking questions about his brothers/sister that died. And i feel the quote really shows how some kids at an adolecent age , are isolated from there curiosity and left to figure out the meaning of things or face reality on there own. Which i think in this case lead to a lot of the reasons on how James Mcbride's mother speaks to her children and what she says to them.

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    1. Nice comparison to Angela's Ashes! I agree with you but I also think that there is another possible reason why children in his family aren't suppose to ask questions. Maybe because James' mother had a bad experience in the past so she tries to avoid questions that could hint at her past?

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    2. I agree. I think that most parents don't tell their children the truth because they don't believe that they can handle reality at such a young age. It makes me wonder if James's mother enforces strict rules so that her children are focused on god/education and not distracted by their curiousity.

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  6. "The bus roared to life as I panicked. A Black Panther? Next to Mommy? It was my worst nightmare come true" (page 36).

    This passage stood out to me because I thought it was sweet and naive of James to want to protect his mother from a Black Panther. I found it interesting how at such a young age, James is already concerned with his mother's safety in the rise of Black Power; even more than she herself is. His mother, on the other hand, is not concerned at all. She doesn't consider herself part of the target of the Black Panthers because she is ashamed of what white people have done in the past, therefore she does not want to be affiliated with them. The question I have is: is James right to be concerned about his mother's safety even though she is not the same kind of white person that a Black Panther or any other group would necessarily target? Is Rachel being too dismissive about her safety?

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  7. "We traded information on Mommy the way people trade baseball cards at trade shows, offering bits and pieces fraught with gossip, nonsense, wisdom, and sometimes just plain foolishness." Pg. 21-22
    This quote stood out to me because it shows how desperate James was to learn more about his mother. I think it was important to him because he was trying to find some sort of connection to his mother since she had a different skin color than him. I also think part of the reason why James was curious about his mother's past was because he needed to figure out his own identity in order to figure out where he belonged in society.

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    1. I agree with your blog post and I also think that James McBride couldn't be satisfied with so little information especially because a lot of questions were tabooed in their house. Maybe McBride's quest to finding answers to his mother's past would be some sort of closure to his mother's decisions to impact his childhood experience.

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    2. I agree it does show how desperate he is with learning more about his mother, he was fine with anything he could get. I also think James wanted any information he could get because it probably would get him one step closer in finding why his mother is different from her children.

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  8. "Suppose Zaydeh isn't dead, then what? And he's surrounded by all those dead people too, and he's still alive?"..."That's why I tell y'all to make sure I'm dead when I die. Kick me and pinch me and make sure I'm gone, because the thought of being buried alive"..."scares me to death." (P.18-19)

    This quote stuck out to me because I thought it was really relatable. As a kid we don't know why people die so we wonder if they really are dead. Death doesn't make sense to us. How is a person alive and well one day and dead the next? I think that James Mcbride's mother describes the experience of a young child dealing with death very well. I can relate to this quote also because I hate the idea of being buried. I can totally relate to when his mother is saying "kick me and pinch me" because I would never want to be buried alive, it's too suffocating even when you're dead. I think that Jame's mother's experience with death has affected her life and still resonates with her in the way in which she still describes how she thought her grandpa was alive. It effects her because she still has a phobia of being buried alive from this experience.

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  9. "Yet Mommy refused to acknowledge her own whiteness." Page 23


    I wonder why Racheal did this? She absolutely refused to refer to herself as white. I think she truely just didn't see the difference. I also think she believed that if she denied it long enough, her children would believe it as well. Racheal was not proud of her race (or skin color). She ran away from her family because she was deeply unhappy. She found a community that she felt excepted in, although she would always be the odd one out. James mother, Racheal refers to herself as light-skinned rather then white for many reasons.

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    1. Pamela Yiadom

      I wonder the same thing too. I agree with her not seeing the difference , but I think she knows what she's doing, maybe some how trying to protect her herself and family.

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    2. Yeah i think she doesn't call herself white because if she did her kids would start thinking she was drastically different from them just because she is white and they are black. She doesn't want them growing up with the idea that there are two different types of human beings as if there was a difference.

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  10. "I had to run for my life" Page 16
    This quote stood out to me because it seems to be the theme of Rachel's life. Rachel is very secretive with her kids and other people around her. I think it's because during her childhood Rachel was threathened constanly, and everything thing she had she knew could be taken away. So I think that Rachel attempts to keep things of value close to her but not to close given that the words of her father replay in her head, that it oculd be taken away. This quote relates to evryday life because sometimes children are abused and when they grow up, even though they have conquered their fear, the thought of it occuring still stays in their mind, causing then to not be able to move forward.

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    1. I agree with you Maria. Rachel certainly wants to protect her children from experiencing the fear she did when she was younger, like something was going to be taken away from her. I agree, this might be why she wants to keep her children from knowing what that feels like.

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    2. I agree with both of you. I think that Rachel wants the best for her children. Its harder because there's 12 of them. So she tries to help them not have the same childhood she had while she was growing up. She's protecting them but also giving them space to be themselves and find out who they are.

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  11. Pamela Yiadom

    Pg.16 " I kept that paper on my person wherever I went for over twenty years. That was my protection."

    I choose this quote because I thought it made me really understand more of why James McBride's mother is so strict and protective of her privacy and past. I think that she was still stuck in thinking that people could still throw her out, that's why she's so protective of her past even to her own children. She might think that people could still be like he father , always threatening to send them back to Europe. And also I think us humans would do the same thing if we had been through that experience.

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  12. "There was something inside me, an ache I had, like a constant itch that got bigger and bigger as I grew... it bothered me greatly. Yet Mommy refused to acknowledge her whiteness." -page 23

    James is bothered by the fact that his mother is lighter skinned than everyone else which can be relatable to people. James just wants to fit in and because of the difference between his mother and others he feels embarrassed and sad that she doesn't fit in with everyone else. I think that he can't understand why his mother doesn't see that she's different as well. Like others it is hard to grow up; everyone wants to fit in.

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    1. I agree with this. James doesn't understand why his mom is white and he's black. I think that this scares him and confuses him.

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  13. "Who am I? I ain't nobody! I can't be telling the world! I don't know!" (page 17)

    This quote stood out to me because it signified his mothers aversion to her family and their culture. It makes you feel like she's denial because she seems lost and unfamiliar, however, at the same time she knows exactly what she's talking about. Why does she tend to stop herself from revealing too much about what she knows? She constantly holds back on what she knows about her culture and family. It almost seems like she doesn't want the reader to know that she knows her culture and its regulations. She asks herself "Who am I?" as if to say that she's not the person who follows this lifestyle anymore. This might be because she feels as if she doesn't belong there anymore, but she also knows that it's not something she can get rid of, its her life.

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    1. I agree with you, but I think she's in denial because she's trying to avoid the past. She truly hates her past, and when she says "Who am I?", I feel like she's almost trying to make light of it, but she really can't because it seems like an incredibly devastating childhood.

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  14. "For me that was the hardest thing, sitting tight. Even as a girl, I was a runner. I liked to get out of the house and go. Run." Page 17

    This quote stood out to me because I feel like the mom, Rachel Shilsky, in not just talking about how she likes running instead of sitting because sitting is boring but she's also she's talking about how she likes to get away from her problems. She doesn't like to face them directly. I'm starting to understand what type of person Rachel is and how her religion shaped her as a child. On the same page Rachel takes about what being an Orthodox jew was like in a negative tone. I think that Rachel had many bad experiences as a child some having to do with Judaism others with stuff like school. All of these thing made her leave her past completely and that's why she became Christian. Being Jewish brings up too many hard feelings to deal with. I think that a lot of people in the world can relate to Rachel, the mom, because they also run away from their problems. It seems like it's human nature to push away things that we have trouble dealing with. Whether it's feelings or even hw there has never been a person who hasn't hid from something. For example if you have a tough essay coming up you might procrastinate it because you don't want to deal with work and effort you have to put in to do it.

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    1. I agree, I think that she not only liked to get out and do something, I mean who wouldn't...you couldn't do anything during those couple days of "blackout" but she doesn't confront her problems, with her children as well she ignores their questions about her and where they came forma and why they looked different than her.

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  15. " 'Suppose Zaydeh isn't dead? Suppose he wakes up to find out he's buried?' ..." But a child in my family didn't ask questions. You did what you were told."(Pg.18)

    This quote stood out to me because it made me think of Angelas Ashes. For example, when Frank McCourt and his siblings would ask questions his parents would curve it and turn that question into another subject and thats how James' mother acts towards him. I think that it's a way of protecting them.

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    1. So true, Selma! What is it about parents who don't want their children to ask questions?! Can you find any other patterns or similarities between the parents in these two memoirs?

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  16. "My father used to say, 'I'm a citizen and you're not. I can send you back to Europe anytime I want.' " pg. 16
    This line stood out to me because it made me think more deeply about his mother's childhood. I think her terrible childhood with a cruel and rigid father made her not just detest authority figures, but to not dwell on the past because she's trying to escape it. She busies herself with bike riding, piano playing, and trying desperately to provide for her children to avoid her horrible past. She also parents her children in a way so that they'll be able to fend for themselves at a very early age, which in a way forces them out of childhood. I think that his mother doesn't view childhood as important because she had a miserable one, which made me think about The Catcher in the Rye, which argues that childhood is the most important and most precious stage of life. These two views made me think about the role of childhood and how important it really is.

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    1. I agree I think Rachel is trying to avoid her past, however I think its more than that. She also wants to show her children that she, and everyone are more than people see on the surface, and you have to look past it.

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    2. Francesca-- this is a really good point. I hadn't made the connection to Catcher before now. Ruth doesn't really let her kids be kids, does she? There isn't a lot of talk of play, more the importance of education. More important, however, it seems as though she was the one who really lost her childhood. What does this do to people if they miss out on this important phase in their development, or worse, are abused during this time?

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  17. I agree with your observation, while Rachel is an admirable person- hard working, self sacrificing, and caring deeply about her children. There is a sense of her denial, that one can pick up, regarding her own religion and ethnicity.

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  18. “As a grown man, I understand now, understand how her Christian principles and trust in God kept her going through her life’s battles.” (p. 33)

    This line stood out to me because I think it foreshadows a lot of what is going to happen in the book. Based on just the large amount of religion talked about in the third and fourth chapters, its clear that religion play a very big role in not only the characters in the book, but potential problems that could take place. We already know that James’ mother was originally an orthodox Jew, and is now a religious Christian. We also know that a lot of her principals and the choices she makes are based on her faith. Then just from this quote we know that James used to not really believe in Christianity, but now it’s likely that he does. However, we don’t know what his mother’s conversion was caused by, or why her beliefs are so strong, even while bad things happen to her. How can anyone put all their trust into a belief that has been proven unsuccessful in the past?

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  19. "You don't need money. What's money if your mind is empty! Educate your mind! Is this world crazy or am I the crazy one? It's probably me."

    This quote stood out because it reflected his mother's ideals. The harsh reality of raising 12 children, largely on her own called for sacrifice and devotion. While I am certain that the economic reality of her situation and her status as a woman transplanted into sometimes harsh circumstances, did not escape her. She did in large part emphasize the value of what she deemed important to her children.

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    1. I totally agree with you. I think the fact that she said that she is most likely the crazy one really supports that idea. Even on pages 33 and 34 when she is in the process of being mugged she stayed calm while trying to keep her purse. Even after she failed and the thief took it she said to James, "It's just a purse." She wants the best for her children (church and education) and that is probably the main reason why she was able to get them through college. Because she determined them to work as hard as they can.

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  20. "I wanted to warn Mommy. Suppose the Black Panther wanted to kill her?"

    This quote stood out to me because I thought it was nice how he was really concerned for his mothers safety. This proves how important she is to him. He is scared for her that she will be targeted by many blacks because she is a white woman living in a completely african american neighborhood. James was also crushed when his brothers jokingly told him that his mother wasn't his real mom because he was adopted. I just find it interesting how he seems more concerned about her than any of his other siblings.

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    1. I agree with your point about James wanting to protect his mother from, to him, the seemingly "dangerous" black neighborhood. On the other hand, he seems to appreciate the "black power" movement and feels more accepted by that community. This is what creates James conflicted feelings involving his racial identity.

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  21. "But there was a part of me that feared black power very deeply for the obvious reason. I though black power would be the end of my other," (p.26).

    This quote stood out to me because it illustrates James conflicted feelings about his racial identity. On one hand, he cherishes "black power" and uses that aspect to define himself, because that is how everybody else in the world sees him. But being raised by his white mother conflicts this feeling of acceptance, leaving him to worry about his mother in the black society they live in. James feels stuck in between two, at the time, different races and social groups, in a limbo between his black heritage and his white mother.

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    1. I also think that James suffers from severe racial identity, and he is so conflicted with his blackness and his mother's whiteness, that it cuts his path/body in half. He fears for his mother, who if you break it down, is just a white woman with black children. He fears for her because in the mist of this black power, she could easily get lost in the middle and get hurt because of it.

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  22. "When I was a boy, I used to wonder where my mother came from and how she got on this earth." (21)

    This quote stood out to me because it showed how pure McBride's innocence was as a child. It showed how we ask so many different questions when we're little, expecting this magical answer. But as we grow up, we realize that these answers aren't what we ever expected and they aren't so fascinating to us. It made me think of how we try to learn so much at once and sometimes we never find out the answer. McBride's mother gave him a simple answer that would've lead to more questions. I find it interesting how he cares about his mom and how he sees her almost as this beautiful, magical creature that holds all the answers.

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  23. "When I asked her where she was from, she would say, God made me, and change the subject"

    This quote really stood out to me because knowing where you came from is such a significant part of finding yourself and your identity.Not knowing where you came from can prevent you from finding your identity. I feel like James and his siblings will or have had trouble finding who they are directly because they know nothing about where they came from. Even worse than that, is that their mother refuses to tell them, which makes them even more curious.

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  24. " ' What does it matter to you?' my older brother Richie scoffed when I asked him if we had any grandparents. 'You're adopted anyway.' " Page 22

    This quote stood out to me because his innocence and sensibility really affected the way he looked at his life, his family, and even his brother's stupid remarks. In the sentence before, James describes how his siblings and him trade information about their mother like "baseball cards." People used to and sometimes still do trade baseball cards. As most of you know, they would have key statistics and information about the player that was on each of these trading cards. Being half black and half Jewish, all twelve of these kids must be at least a little confused about where they came from. James made it very clear that he had no idea until he finally convinced his mother to tell him 14 years later. I think that although his brother, Richie, said that he definitely isn't adopted but James is, that he is saying this because he is afraid that he might be adopted to. Their family deals with so much hate in the outside world, people are always asking if they are adopted, and these kids don't know if they are black, white, or nothing at all.

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  25. Oscar Belkin-Sessler
    11/27/12
    English Blog Post #1
    The Color Of Water Chapters 3 & 4

    "We traded information on Mommy the way people trade baseball cards at trade shows, offering bits and pieces fraught with gossip, nonsense, wisdom, and sometimes just plain foolishness." (PG. 21-22)

    I come from a family with three kids; it’s me and my two older sisters. Sometimes I find it hard to get time alone with my parents. Now after reading these few chapters I feel that I have a luxury when I look at this family with 12 kids. The children don’t even get enough time with their mother to get to know her. It is incredible that she has managed to raise this many children, but she cant do everything and one of the things she cant do is get to know her children. But maybe she could, if she wanted to. I will contradict myself by saying that maybe she chooses not to connect with her children for fear of revealing things from her past or looking back on memories that she is not particularly fond of. After reading this line and after thinking about how she doesn’t spend time with her kids I started to think about the relationship the kids have with each other. I wonder if this “separation” from their parents causes them to be independent and not want to share with one another. It seemed odd to me that the kids would “Trade” with each other, and it gives me the feeling that because of the lack of connection with the mother, the kids could turn out to be isolated and lonely later in there lives.

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    1. My brother just went to college, so now I'm an only child for the first time in my life. I never really found it hard to talk to my parents because it was just me and my brother, but even imagining a family of 12 kids makes me stressed. I actually think McBride's mother does a great job of giving her kids their attention, as you said its hard for you with a three kid family to get your parents attention. I thinnk having kids that are different ages also changes her method of parenting, giving some kids more attention than others. The way the kids trade information about their mother is something I can relate to, my mother had a strange life and my brother and I used to tell each other what we knew. I found that it's sometimes harder to ask the question than it is to give the answer.

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  26. "...screaming to hundreds and hundreds of angry African American students, "Black Power! Black Power! Black Power!"while the crowd roared. It frightened the shit out of me. I thought to myself, these people will kill mommy."

    This line stood out to me the most in the chapters. Knowing that James is half white and half black, you see the constant conflict he has within himself during this time period. I found it interesting that the Black Panther movement and the whole black power rising scared James instead of making him want to do something to the white man. I think that James is so aware of his mother's whiteness, that he fears for her constantly because of how black people would look at her with black children.

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    1. I agree, James must have a big conflict in fitting in with race. Mixed race children, I think, weren't branded anywhere. And I would think he would support the Black Panthers, but he's scared mostly for his mother.

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  27. "She viewed the civil rights achievements of black Americans, with pride as if they were her own." (Pg. 32)

    I like this qoute because it showed how she didn't care for racist comments. Even though she had racist comments thrown at her by African Americans, she still looked forward to their rights. She classified herself as "light skinned" to show racism doesn't solve anything. This quote deserves high respects because even in that era, where there was a lot of racism, she didn't fall to believe in it.

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  28. "If it doesn't involve your going to school or church, I could care less about it and my answer is no whatever it is"
    This line stood out to me because when she changes the subject or ignore James' question she's really trying to protect him. She doesn't him or any of her children to listen to the opinions of the people around him. She's protecting him from racism. She doesn't want her children to become close minded like a lot of other people. I kind of disagree with this method. I believe her children should know why their mother is 'different'. I think she should talk it out with James. Talking it out leads to understanding therefore she would have his trust that he wouldn't turn on her because that's always a possibility.

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  29. "It's just a purse. Don't worry about it. Let's just get home."
    This quote stood out to me for many reasons. McBride's mother was deffinetly a strong woman, and showed this when instead of being shocked and letting him take the purse, she tried to fight for it. Also, when the mugger got away, she took McBride's hand and told him that it was just a purse and it was nothing to worry about. I thought this was really brave of her, because as I was reading I realised that even if someone is emotionally strong, it's hard to not be scared when someone's mugging you.
    She showed no fear, and as a child looking up to your mother who was untouched by a mugging, would make you feel safe. McBride's mother is a wonderful woman, and even if she has trouble dealing with 12 kids, she knows how to parent and gives them someone to look up to.
    (Sorry about the late blog post I never saw the portal entry)

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  30. "When they were out of sight, I turned to the black panther's son sitting behind me and punched him square in the face with my fist"
    pg. 36

    I liked this quote because I found it sort of funny. I know its sort of insensitive to say that it was funny but all I could think of was this kid about 8 or 9 socking this other 8 or 9 year old in the jaw with his tiny fists, with his angry face in a sort of pouty fashion. But it was also a display of how much James will go through to protect his mother.

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