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Please choose a line from the text, quote it (with the page number), and then ask a question based off of this line. Then, try to answer your own question. Dig deep. Perhaps try out a couple of potential answers. Perhaps, in your answer, provide a piece of textual evidence from earlier in the novel. YOU MUST ALSO RESPOND TO A CLASSMATE'S QUESTION.
Format:
"...." (#).
Question:
"Nobody listens anymore. I can't talk to the wall because they're yelling at me. I can't talk to my wife ; she listens to the walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough it'll make sense."(pg.82)
ReplyDeleteI first read this passage when I was on the subway and I almost missed my stop because I didn't stop reading when I got to 23rd street.
Why doesn't Montag take action an speak up?
Anyway, I was so touched by this. Montag refused to open up to anyone because he had nobody to open up to, he felt like he couldn't even talk to a TV. I think that when a person does not think that they can not talk to his wife, that he has been married to for a long to. It is scary to think that there is nothing more to life that a giant TV on the wall. When the only form of communication is about bad news, then Montag should start questioning what is wrong with his relationship.
I totally agree with you. I think that the scariest part is that this might be the place where our society today is heading. Montag is a unique person in a society of millions of fake people, who are all the same, he has so much to say that others don't want to hear because it makes you think, and thinking isn't allowed in their society. I think that it is really good that Montag found Faber because maybe he can help Montag better understand the meaning of books, and Montag can make an impact on their boring world. Understanding these books might even help Montag to realize that there is more to life than not liking your job, and your wife and overall, being miserable.
DeleteI agree with both of you. When I read this quote it really showed me who montag is as a person. It shows how lonely he feels because he has no-one to talk to. His wife is not there for him. He just wants to be heard for once. His ideas that he just wants to pour of out his mouth but he can't because in his society your not allowed to think. When clarisse was still alive he could practically tell her anything and at least he had someone to talk to and he viewed clarisse as a friend who listened to his ideas but now that she is dead so he has really no-one to hear him out because his wife honestly just doesn't care about what he has to say.
DeleteI agree with the three of you. I think that there is the moment in everybody's life in which we sometimes believe nobody is there to actually listen to us and just look at us without questioning the confusion. The terrifying part of this is not having anybody to talk to because you are afraid the society or even government can punish you. The only thing that is surrounding him is these walls that are nothing, the same shows over and over again. It has no use to talk to the walls and not having the care of his wife that he has known forever. In the back of his head, Montag is thinking whether Mildred will have the audacity to tell Beatty that Montag has hundreds of books and reads them throughout the day.
DeleteI agree with all 4 of you Montag wants more out of life than just talk interactive screens and that is what his life is he has no one to talk to. And like Angie said the is a time in everybody's life were you just want people to listen to you and you want peoples opinion on things. But for Montag there is no one who can help him with that , and that is why I think books mean so much to him (well there was someone....)-Nayah Ferris
DeleteI completely agree with all you. This shows how technology can lead to miscommunication between your friends and family. Mildred only listens to walls and not her husband shows much she cares about technology more their her own husband. Montag is very lonely and doesn't know how he can make a difference in his world, but maybe books will better make a difference and prevent miscommunication between people.
DeleteI agree with what you're saying- This passage made me stop and thing as well. I do think that technology interferes with human communication and that it will continue to do so as time goes on. Think about the few interactions that Montag and Mildred had. Mildred feels more connected with fictional television characters than she does with her own husband. Montag feels like he can't even connect with Mildred because she's so into her television. He has to shut the parlor off to even get her attention, yet she still stares at the parlor hoping for it to come back to life. This may be Ray Bradbury's way of telling us that we have to unplug from our electronic devices once in a while and talk to our friends face to face instead of phone to phone or screen to screen.
Delete"So now do you see why books are hated and feared? They show the pores in the face of life..."(83)
ReplyDeleteWhat does Faber mean by saying that books are "the pores in the face of life"?
Your pores are tiny little holes in your skin, I think that this is a really great metaphor. In the society that they live in they regulate everything so that there is no controversy, or fights. Books were previously causing people to question life, they would give people ideas of what they wanted, or who they wanted to be. Books are such small things in the world, yet they seeped into peoples brains and gave the government problems. Another question that I have is how is Faber so intelligent, I know that he is a teacher, but how did he avoid society impacting him?
This quote confused me a lot also but your connection has confused me even more. Are you trying to say that the pores seep into are brains or that books are small things? I believe that Faber answers your question at the end of page 83. He says pores because pores give humans texture and to Faber texture is quality like a book. Pores also show a person that their alive, we all have it in common. Kind of like we all have history, it might not be the same but we all have history and books gives us the information to our history. Pores also show a human that we aren’t unreal like plastic. Pores are our evidence of being alive like books are the evidence to our history. That’s why I believe he used the metaphor, “the pores in the face of life.” I could be wrong.
DeleteThis quote also confused me but when you described about society it made me think about it a little more. I kind of think of the pores as little escape route in society. Like even though they are not supposed to being reading the books they are escape routes to go to another world. To leave where they are living and be in a better spot. To think outside of the box and express their ideas in and on life.
DeleteI was very confused by this quote as well, but I think when Faber means "the pores are in the face of life" I think it means the books give us information about life, that allows to question and think about life as it eventually impacts their life in the future.
DeleteThis quote messed with my head as well. When Faber says this, I thought he meant that books have morals and we learn from those mistakes rather than making it over and over agin. I don't think that Faber is "intelligent". I mean Faber was once a teacher but one thing everyone could have done was ask questions. He thought about why books are so important. He thought about how books could be important in life. Anybody can think of that if they QUESTIONED! In Bradbury's perspective, everyone was not allowed to question so they didn't. I'm surprised that it took Montag all these years to question why it was forbidden to read books after watching it burn almost everyday. He had two lectures from two people, one talking about why books are bad and how it messes with your brain and another that explains why it helps your brain to THINK about your future, your life, your mistakes etc. I think this quote is trying to say that there is always something important to come out of a book to help others understand life and follow your dreams and not make the wrong decisions that is not going to make you happy. I agree that Faber is smart enough to have these thoughts but yet he isn't doing anything to change it. He just ends up following the government as everyone else. Well, at the same time he would get burned if he did try. So I wonder what they can do to be heard and change the government.
DeleteI wrote about this quote too, but didn't really think of it the way that you guys did. I agree with Molly about how the pores are really just an escape route for the society to use. There are pores all over our bodies and if one book doesn't show us how to fix our problems and show us that there is an alternative then there always is another book that is written and it can show someone that there is a solution that can be used. Also, maybe the book you read didn't show you the meaning of what you were looking for, yet for someone else it was obvious. This is exactly what the government wants to avoid and I feel that if this society doesn't face choosing their own life style and don't choose where they want to go or what they want to, then just like all the other firemen, they will blinded by a dystopian society that is selfish for their own ways.
Delete“Faber with a certain trembling, wrote his address on a slip of paper. ‘For ur file,’ he said, ‘in case you decide to be angry with me.” Pg 75. “Faber peered out, looking very old in the light and very fragile and very much afraid.” Pg 80.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Faber give Montag his address to report him but then becomes afraid when Montag actually comes?
At first I believed Faber isn’t afraid of Montag knowing his address because he’s in public so Montag can’t really do anything. I also felt like Faber giving Montag his number was in the spear of the moment after Faber mustered up enough courage. When first reading the scenes I thought about a person giving their crush their phone number but when the crush calls, when Montag shows up at the door, the person is suddenly afraid. After Faber opens the door he says, “it’s true” that made me wonder if Faber gave Montag his address because he knew he was reading books and wanted to find out. Overall, I found these scenes really interesting.
I think that Faber is a coward, like he says. He gives him address because he almost wants to be caught and killed. He wants to be in control of his fate, so he simply gave Montag his address because he is too afraid to try and save himself. Faber understands the risks of what he is doing, so to save himself the embarrassment of being caught off guard or grilled for his address, he gives him his address. He is also keenly aware of the mentality towards people who read books or who want to read books. Faber does not try to control Montag and make him believe what he is saying, and he understands that the next day Montag may file a tip and Faber would be arrested. He understands that neighbors and friends cannot be trusted. He is scared when he opens up the door for Montag because he is a coward and he knows that eventually he would be caught for reading books.
DeleteWhile I do agree with Sabina when she says that Faber was a “coward” for giving Montag his address, I do not agree with her when she says: “he gives him address because he almost wants to be caught and killed.” Contrary to what she said, I do not believe that anyone in the world, truthfully, wants to die. They might say they do. They might try to prove that they do. However, in reality, they just want to be saved. Nevertheless, in the rest of her response, Sabina makes some very solid points that answer your question, Nyeighsha. I agree with her when she says, “to save himself the embarrassment of being caught off guard or grilled for his address, he gives him his address.” Being caught as the criminal in a situation when you’re least expecting it . . . how humiliating would that be!
DeleteIn the most theoretical sense, I think Faber felt guilty for having the books in the park that day. His guilty convictions might’ve gotten to the best of him, therefore resulting in him blurting out his address to Montag. I think Faber is a great example of a criminal that does not fit society’s notorious descriptions: he reads books, yet he doesn’t rebel against the government, nor does he grow mentally unstable as a result of all the knowledge that he is capable of.
“The books are to remind of us of what asses and fools we are.”(86)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: How can society grow and change for the better if all mistakes are forgotten?
Answer:
I think that in this society, all of the history and previous events have been so rewritten that there are no mistakes anymore, there is only what the government says. People do now want to admit to everything they have done wrong. The books are artifacts of the truth, of humanity’s mistakes, and the government does not want people to doubt its control. It wants to remain in power and make the human race dumber and dumber so that mistakes are forgotten. The record has been burned, because it is harder to handle the truth than sit and be with the parlor ‘family’ all day. There can be no growth or change if nobody knows anything has ever been done wrong. The world has always been progressing, but it cannot anymore because there is nothing to compare the current status to. History repeats itself, like Montag says about the nuclear wars. They cannot stop these wars because they try and forget about them by burning the records. Books are a constant reminder of what people thought during that time period. Without that knowledge there can be recovery from any sort of hardship. The whole entire world is censored so that there can be no memories. Mildred and Montag don’t; know where they met. Society is making people not care about the past. The books are the past, so they must be destroyed, and that is why they are so dangerous. They could show how the government has been lying to the people and they could prove that the past is sometimes more relevant than the future. Mistakes therefore must be remembered so that people like Montag and Faber can somehow save this civilization from continuing on its path to total destruction.
Number 1: quality of information. Number Two: leisure to digest it. Number Three: the right to carry out actions based on what we learn from the interaction of the first two.
ReplyDeleteQuestions: If you were living in this futuristic society would you agree with these three things that Faber thinks is missing? What is the significance of these three things?
Answer: if I was living in this futuristic society in which Montag is leaving in, I would agree with Faber (English professor) in these three things because it is what creates this fear or terrifying thought the government has. The government is not to blame for the censorship or suicide thoughts, it’s the books. The books have this world within another world and it has this depth into it that if you go into it you'll just stay there in this universe of questions and "why this?" "Why that?" The first thing it is missing is quality and "pores" of the information in the books. Based on the book it states that, "This book can go under the microscope. You'd find life under the glass streaming past in infinite profusion. the more pores the more truthful recorded details of life per square inch you can sheet on a sheet of paper." this is significant because these people are satisfy when there are no details, no questions, no opinions, no emotion. Not having quality of information we just believe that everything will be handed to us and it can just happen at any time or any place but every place has their own purpose. The importance of the second thing is the leisure to think. Just imagine the world without the leisure of thinking, People in a hurry cannot think, cannot grow, nor can they decay. They are preserved in a state of being that person that was just there in the world, but nothing really ran thought their mind to process. We only process what we observe the facts only; we don’t make inferences in referring if there is something wrong or right. It states, “The television is real. It is immediate, it has dimension. It tells you what to think and blasts it in. it must be right…” The third thing involves the right to carry out actions; it is done after the process of thinking and recognizing all of the facts to recall on. We sometimes just keep our opinion or thoughts in our mind and just trap our voice form the world, because we don’t want to bother anybody or protest over a minority thing.
"'Now," said Mildred, "my family is people. They tell me things; I laugh, they laugh! And the colors!"'
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Why is Mildred so consumed with her fake family when she has a real one in front of her and a life?
Answer: I think the reason why she is so consumed with her fake family is because she is having a difficulty realizing wheat is reality and what is fiction. She spends every waking moment with her "family" she believes they are always with her. I think she is just confused. I personally do not like Mildred but something about her always makes me ask questions. Also since Montag is obsessed with his own life and work it is hard for her to connect with him as a real family. In the future we are probably going to be more glues to electronics then now. Think about it like this right now I am doing my Homework on a computer while listening to music on my phone, I have an old iPod that works next to me, my brother is on the computer, my mom is and I have three tvs. If that is happening now imagine in the future when we probably will have flying cars and a whole room that is a tv. I cannot blame Mildred for being glued it is normal. I feel though I would dye board. I get board of tv sometimes over break. I am usually like I need to do something NOW!!! To get back to Mildred I think that it is hard to get back to her really family because it is absence so she obsesses with her fake family because they are always there for her and she believes them and she can interact with them, unlike with Montag as we can see form their relationship. He actually gets me mad how he treats her, It is like an escape for her. Even though it is more technology it is her closest comforting interaction. Also for someone who is suicidal it is probably the only thing that makes her happy so she surrounds her self with it.
I agree with you that she sees her family as someone who is always there but I disagree that Mildren has difficulty when it comes to telling the difference between reality and fiction. In my opinion, she knows the difference between the two which is why she tries to block out their society, which is reality, by paying attention to fiction which is her family in the parlor. Mildred also sees death as a reality but does show emotion toward it becaus it is common in their society and even though her parlor family is fiction they make her laugh, which is something uncommon.
Delete"Nobody listens any more. I can't talk to the walls because they're yelling at me. I can't talk to my wife; she listens to the walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough, it'll make sense." (82)
ReplyDeleteWhat makes Montag want to talk so much about?
What I think is that mainly he is really curious about what books are really about, maybe it gives him inspiration to read them. It's just like the quote "it's lack that gives us inspiration." Enough about that, but this reminds me so much about how people in our time are. We all want to be listened by people we know, and we mostly keep talking about it until it's boring. This quote really got me into my topic.
i think montag wants to talk about him and not have people interupting like mildred does and books are a way to have connections with struggles between 2 people so he is just trying to figure out how to handle his struggles and i also think that montag needs a therapist.
DeleteI agree. I also think that he needs someone that acknowledges books as much as he does and Mildred honestly doesn't really care. She thinks well books are book "so?" like she said in the previous pages. Since know one knows how much he truly cares about books he wants someone to understand him, in a way that he can connect.
Delete"it's not books you need its some o the things that were once in books."
ReplyDeletewhat are those things?
i think that the things he was talking about is nature and the outside world out of televisions and thats one of the reasons why i think he choose books because its different from everything else and he wants to go back in time and try to change life so people will not HAVE to have walls with tv's on them and they can enjoy nature so basically i think that Montag misses the old days where it was simpler
I strongly agree with you. I think that Montag is talking about nature, but he does not know that he is talking about nature because he has never truly experienced it. I also think that book seem like they are reality. People tend to be scared of reality, people do not like reality. Take reality TV shows, they are staged( sadly) because nobody wants to see reality, they want to imagine life in a fantasy world. Montag misses reality, unlike most, it is like a missing part of him.
DeleteI agree with you guys as well. Like our discussion in class, we need to experience the bad in order to feel the good. We need to know the history, so we know not to repeat (LOL THE IRONY...jk). This ties in with the knowledge that a book can give because it gives us the morals of good, and the bad so we can have the balanced yin and yang we're supposed to have in life. We can't erase history, even if they try, it will always be there, lingering in the shadows of everyone who believes it's not there.
DeleteSorry I forgot to right the page, Pg. 69
ReplyDelete"Some time before the night when I give the book back to Beatty, I've got to have a duplicate made."
ReplyDeleteMontag doesn't want to give the book back to Beatty because he wants to learn from the book, find out information and why does this connect with why Beatty thinks books should be censored. He is starting to learn and gain some type of sense or knowledge from the books however he also wants to make a duplicate because he is afraid that Beatty might find out he has more books because if Beatty saw it and he knows that the book Mildred held in her hand which was the not same one montag handed back then Montag would be in a lot of trouble. I think that these books have answered some of montag's curiosity. And I feel like in a way Montag doesn't feel guilty about taking all those books.
“‘I don't know. We have everything we need to be happy, but we aren't happy. Something's missing. I looked around. The only thing I positively knew was gone was the books I'd burned in ten or twelve years. So I thought books might help.’" (Page 82)
ReplyDeleteWill books, as Montag states, make him happier? Or will they, as Beatty states, succeed in doing the opposite?
As a vivid reader and a mediocre writer, I can proudly state that reading books does not always make me happy. As a matter of fact, sometimes, certain characters make me want to yank my hair out. Why are these characters doing this? Who are they doing this for? Is this really necessary? The suspense and patience that comes with reading can be overwhelming.
While reading is a brilliant source of happiness—for it enables you to penetrate into a world, where everything is the way you want it to be—too much reading can also lead to annoyance. For the majority of my life, I’ve resorted to reading for not only entertainment, but also knowledge; however, not all of what I read always pleases me. For instance, when I read realistic fiction novels—favorite genre!—a lot of what I read is frightening. Oftentimes, by reading this genre, I am reminded of the sobering fact that reality can never be without flaws. Now tell me: who wants to be afraid of a bunch of words splattered on a piece of paper? No one. Therefore, to answer my question: I do think Montag will find solace in the novels, however, he may also be unsatisfied with the content in them, for happiness always comes hand-in-hand with disappointment.
I agree with you, Montag will find happiness within books. As you stated, even though books can be scary and have mature and frightening content, we have a choice whether or not it will affect us positively or negatively. Although in Montag's case, his curiosity is starting to take over, therefore he should explore and dive into the broad spectrum of literature he never knew before.
Delete"Someone somewhere will I've mr back the old face and the old hands the way they were. Even if the smile he though, the old brunt-in smile, that's gone. I'm lost without it." (Bradbury 78)
ReplyDeleteWhat does Montag mean he's lost without his old smile? Does he miss his old habits?
Montag is now realizing that his old ways were never justified. They were horrific in so many levels. He realized this once the old lady decided to burn with her books. He saw life and death right before his eyes, and he felt it was his fault he lost a potential friend. Montag, before his stage of rebellion occurred, he enjoyed his job. It gave him joy that made him grin all day and night. When he can no longer grin anymore, a part of him is lost. No saying he wants to grin for the wrong reasons...it's that he thought the wrong reasons were the right reasons. Now...he has nothing to smile about. Everything around him seems so depressing, and un-happy. The lack of knowledge bothers Montag. Another thing, his hands....His hands are also mentioned in this quote. He hands are not doing anything productive as this point, nothing to be satisfied, and proud of...his hands are not in action as they were. He's lost with his books. At least for now.
i kinda agree with you, i feel that maybe the smile he's talking about was the smile that Clarisse was able to bring out of him after meeting her and becoming great friends. and that after her death, he's lost and books have helped him realize why clarisse was like that. now he's trying to find someone that will help him and that will understand his thoughts or just hear him out. it's just a thought but i like your answer it seems accurate,
Delete"She's dead . Lets talk about someone alive for goodness sake'...She was the first person I can remember who looked straight at me as if i counted'.He lifted the twos books' These men have been dead a long time , but I know their words point , one way or another , to Clarisse "(pg 68)
ReplyDeleteQuestion:Why does Montag feel so strongly about Clarisse and how she treated him?
Montag has been living in a world were people either hind there opinion or they don't have one so meeting some one who isn't afraid to Share what they are thinking at every second is amazing . Also I think that Montag wants to be just like he in the that way but after knowing that she has passed away stop the fire that was in him to be like he , he had no one to look at for guidance.
T Mac is Nayah Ferris
DeleteThis is the qquote that I chose too! I completely agree with you! Clarisse actually made him think about why it is that he may be so comfortable or what was before the present that they were living in. Now that she is dead he is back to the normal boring routine! It's like going to a concert in front row then having to sit inside looking from a screen in the next concert! No one wants to go back to the bad thigns after they have had a taste of what they like or what makes them feel happy and appreciated.
Delete"Books were only type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget." There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, how they stitched the patches of the universe together into one garment for us."(pg.83)
ReplyDeleteHow do books stitch the patches of the universe together into one garment ?
Books stitch the patches of the universe together into one garment by "The books has pores. It has features. This book can go under the microscope. You'd find life under the glass, streaming past in infinite profusion. The more pores the more truthfully recorded details of life per square inch you get on a sheet of paper, the more literary you are."(pg.83). Since Books contain details of life the details of life could be true or false. The more truthful you are about the world and life in general and then it shows how knowledgeable you are about the world around and considerate about what goes on in society. "Telling detail. Fresh detail. The good writers touch life often. The mediocre ones run a quick hand over her. The bad ones rape her and leave her for the flies."(pg.83) It is interesting that the more detail you have the better your mind can absorb, contain and acknowledge the information. Books stitch the patches of the universe together into one garment for us for another reason because "School is shortened, discipline relaxed, philosophies,histories, languages dropped, English and spelling gradually, gradually neglected,finally almost completely ignored. Life is immediate, the job counts, pleasures about after work."(pg.55) Life is boring because we are not learning anything and since we are not learning anything, then the society and the world doesn't know how to act, think or speak. Finally, Books keeps the world connected because it gives us reason to think about how the society is and how we can make a difference. "I'm going to do something. said Montag. I don't even know what yet, but I'm going to do something big."(pg.65) Some thoughts to keep in mind What is the powerful effect books have on people in society? How does books keeps the world connected? What is type of magic books contain?
"But Clarisse's favorite subject wasn't herself. It was everyone else, and me. She was the first person in a good many years I've really liked. She was the first person I can remember who looked straight at me as it I counted." He lifted the two books. "These men have been dead a long time, but I know their words point one way or another, to Clarisse." PG 72
ReplyDeleteWhy does he automatically think about Clarisse when he is reading?
When I read this part in the book I automatically thought about the people in the present world. I think Montag thinks about Clarisse when he reads the book because he cares a lot about her and she was actually the first person to make him REALLY question the world around him and how society goes about things. I made a connection to the world when Montag says that the authors must have written this book to point towards Clarisse because if one actually thinks back to the times that we have gone through difficult situations, deaths, personal issues, maybe even a breakup, everything that we listen to or read matches our situation correctly. And although it may seem a bit cliche, the reason why it matches is because we actually took time to listen to what the music or book is saying. In other times we just sing or read and go with the flow of the things, but when we are going through specific feelings the lyrics or words from a book actually hit us because we are listening intently to reach out for anything to make us feel better about the situation that we are in. So, in a way I feel like Montag thinks about Clarisse when he reads the book is because he is actually affected by her death because not only did she die, but he also died a bit because they thought the same and she actually appreciated him for him but now that she is gone he is back to being around boring people that are following society because they are okay with being comfortable and they do not want to risk losing what they having by reading a book that can actually make them question why they may be so comfortable.
I agree completely. I think Montag is affected by Clarisse's death more than he admits, but expresses it in a different way. Instead of outwardly showing his emotion, he keeps it inside of him and instead wonders about her while reading or thinking, because they were so alike in their mindsets that it's almost as though he's lost a piece of himself while losing her.
DeleteConnecting to The Catcher in the Rye, I believe Bradbury uses Clarisse to also show innocence and hope in children. For kids to be brain washed and not allowed the freedom that thrives their imagination shows how this society is like a prison not allowing people to be free and happy. Clarrise is one of the only children who thinks the way she wants and isn't clouded by the surrounding. I think it's interesting how she dies and how other have died. I wonder if being different gets you killed and that's why Mildred lived because now she is brain dead too and doesn't even remember things. This societies keeping secret and I hope to find them out later on in the book.
Delete"'And don't look to be saved in any one thing, person, machine, or library. Do your own bit of saving, and if you drown, at least die knowing you were heading for shore."' (Pg. 86)
ReplyDeleteIf one just obtained information without thinking about it, is one able to gain something?
This quote really stood out to me because I see Montag's desire to understand what he reads to as a way for him to find answers in order to complete his happiness. In this quote it is shown that Montag learning things from people and reading only won't help him find closure because he needs to think about what his learned and try to find it in life. I agree with Fader because if one really thinks about what they have learned one can apply it in their life by standing for what they believe in or their opinion. Our thoughts and opinion make us who we are because it is part of what shapes us. Though ones opinion or thoughts might cause problems because others migh not agree, it still give some sense of purpose in life because it makes us stand out and be our own person.
" You can't guarantee things like that! After all, when we had all the books we needed, we still insisted on finding the highest cliff to jump off. but we do need a breather. we do need knowledge. and perhaps in a thousand years we might pick smaller cliffs to jump off". (pg.82)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: how can the knowledge Books provide affect how people react towards society?
Answer: Books provide knowledge in society itself, but people come to hate and fear books as a powerful tool that can change your path in life. which is why they have come to be persecuted by firemen. books can decipher one's mind, to think about something and it's meaning. they help people view the society in different perspectives. this is why people need knowledge because they are stuck in a time where they stick with the flow, don't really think about what's around them and how the world is being affected without books. a great example for this would be the schools in this time where kids are being taught to live life with no questions and go with what's being given and not ask why it's being given or taught. people cant learn from anything they do because they can't tell what's wrong and what's right, due to the fact that they don't think before their actions. this provokes a violent society were without the knowledge of books, people can really become something horrible and not knowing what they have become. as Faber states on pg 79, "It has features. this book can go under the microscope. you'd find life under the glass, streaming past in infinite profusion. this reveals what books can do to a person. though, books are feared and hated because of this power they contain. in pg 79, it states " so now do you see why books are hated and feared? they show they pores in the face of life. the comfortable people want only wax moon faces, pore-less, hairless, expressionless. we are living in a time when flowers are trying to live on flowers". this evidence really reveals how the knowledge of books affect how people live and react towards society.
"The parlor was empty and gray-looking without its wall lit with orange and yellow confetti... The parlor was dead and Mildred kept peering in at it with a blank expression..." (Bradbury, 67)
ReplyDeleteWhy is it so hard for Mildred to go without the enormous T.V screens?
In class, we talked about people's reliability on technology and how it impacts society. In this passage, that reliability is really apparent because of the way Mildred keeps peering into the parlor and looking for the T.V when she and Montag are reading for the first time. I think that Mildred does this because when she has to read the books with Montag, she doesn't know what to do with herself; it feels strange. Mildred mentioned that "Books aren't people. You read and I look all around, but there isn't anybody!" Mildred simply doesn't get books and what you're supposed to get out of one. Since she doesn't physically see the characters from these books she doesn't see much of a point in reading them. On the other hand, with the huge television, the characters from the programs are real and big on the screen. She calls these characters her "family" to feel less lonely. So when Montag turns the parlor "off," she feels lonely and distant from this 2-dimensional "family" of hers that live inside the parlor walls.
"So now do you see why books are hated and feared? They show the pores in the face of life..." (p83)
ReplyDeleteWhat is Faber's meaning behind this?
I feel that when Faber says this he means that there are over a billion books in the world just like there are a billion pores which cover our skin. There so many of them and they're so small that people don't notice them and don't care about. Especially in this book because books are a way of rebellion and showing that small doesn't mean it's unnoticed because it's still there and someone does care.
Amna I see your points but I actually disagree with you. I believe that people do notice and care about pores. When Faber state those words I believed that he was trying to say that books are hated and feared because their results are highly unpredictable and you can never be sure how they affect people. For instance, books can give people different ideas that separate people from one another and thus create inequality among groups of people not only that but the books disrupts the equilibrium that was created in this novel. That’s the reason why I believe that books were outlawed in that world.
DeleteQuote: How did you get shaken up? What knocked the torch out of your hands? I don’t know. We have everything we need to be happy, but we aren’t happy. Something’s missing.”
ReplyDelete- Ray Bradbury 78
I was honestly perplexed when I read this quote but at the same time I felt like I understood the message that Ray Bradbury was trying to send out. Like I said before, I was perplexed by parts of the quote since I they could be interpreted in different forms of ways. At the beginning of the quote it talks about a torch that was knocked out of Montag’s hands. I thought the quote referred to the obvious answer which was basically about how Clarisse’s time with Montag led Montag’s life torch to die because he slowly begins to realize that what he did for a living was actually something he didn’t like at all and that leads Montag to lose control of his life torch, that’s the message I thought that the quote was trying to send out. That being said, there were other atrocious experiences that could fit in the message of the quote. For instance, the quote could have been referring to the time Montag saw the woman get murdered right before his eyes by his own comrades. This could also fit the message that was being sent because the torch could be seen as Montag’s job and the part in which he loses control of the torch which leads the torch to die is the horrible experiences that Montag faces which lead him to hate his job and want a change. That being said, I was indeed able to understand the second part of the quote since too much happiness is never go or in other words to much of anything is never good. Furthermore, when I read this part of the quote I immediately thought about the basics of living a healthy life which is basically about how everyone needs to experience horrible things in our life because we would then be able to be thankful for what we have not only that but without sadness and pain there could never be true happiness since these two factors depend on each other for their existence. Anyhow, the reason why the characters in this novel are always depressed is simply because they have not experienced true pain or other factors of life which would eventually lead them to finally reach a state where they would actually be happy with what they have.
“The books are to remind of us of what asses and fools we are.” (86)
ReplyDeleteIf we forget our mistakes then how will the society change if you keep on making the same wrong choices?
We may feel like a fool for all the mistakes we've done but books remind us not to make those mistakes again. There are books to remind us never to make those mistakes again. There are books that teaches other mistakes so if you ever cross that bridge and get to it, you know not to make that choice. There are books that can relate to your life so it can guide you through life. It helps you make decisions and encourages you to be a dream chaser. There are books that talks about the past and how people made what so later on you can improve on it. For example, the technology we use today are improvements from the past. If there are no books then how do we get facts about things in life. How will we learn to write complex without learning from books. Bradbury is trying to say that books are the last so you need to burn it. If you burn it then history will repeat itself. The society will become more and more stupid if there are no books about how to prevent conflict.
What will the world become if there were no books. How will kids learn? They can't just get facts thrown in their face and be expected to know them. You have to explain then and give examples. So yes, mistakes have to be remembered to prevent the present from the past. Something is just wrong in the government in Bradbury's mind. He has a creative mind that people can relate to but it can cause so much conflict that it can bad. Thank goodness thins is just a book!
Wow. This is a really good question. I think that you can only learn from your mistakes. In this society there are not really many chances to learn from your mistakes. Instead of learning they just die. For example: Clarisse talks about her classmates dying from crashing in high speed car races, or playing senseless games. If the children were to learn about learning from their mistakes in school, only one of Clarisse's friends would have died and the others would have learned not to involve themselves in this behavior. One problem with this society is that they are not taught any kind of common knowledge. While the government workers claim that protecting knowledge is protecting people, they are WRONG.
Delete"'We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop which makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses there is at last one which makes the heart run over.'" (71)
ReplyDeleteWhy did Bradbury choose to have Montag read this passage out of all the books?
I know it's not as directly related because it's just a passage in one of the books and could mean anything, but to me it says that "in a series of kindnesses," or, out of all the people you meet in your life, there is at last one who matters more than the rest, and, in a sense, causes a different outcome than those before them. While Montag is reading through the books, Mildred keeps looking in the empty parlor as though waiting for something to happen, because to her, she's conjured up her own idea of a person that made her "heart run over" in the walls of screens. Montag on the other hand, thought he found that person in Mildred, but he lost her to the fake reality she's immersed herself in. I think it also makes him realize how many people in his world are nothing more than drops in a vessel, and the vessel hadn't seemed to have spilled until he met Clarisse, who was unlike the rest of the society he had grown to know. Mildred is quick to think nothing of it, but Montag wonders for a minute what it was about Clarisse that was different from everyone else. She had a different mindset from the rest of the world, and she tried to find reasons to matter, not to everyone, but only to herself and to Montag. She was making change so quickly yet so discreetly, that it makes Montag wonder if he'll ever find someone like that again, or if he'll once more be reduced to watching his vessel fill, but never run over.
"Nobody listens any more. I can't talk to the walls because they're yelling at me. I can't talk to my wife; she listens to the walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if I talk long enough, it'll make sense." (Page 82)
ReplyDeleteWhy is it so hard for him to talk to mildred about things ?
I think its hard because she doesn't understand the meaning of books to him. To her books are just "So" and to him books are everything. In the previous pages Mildred said " You want to give up everything ?After all these years of working, because, one night some woman and her book-" (51) This mean everything to Montag and Mildred was treating it as if its a almost a joke! This is why he doesn't want to talk to Mildred and i use this expression a lot as well like i will usual say " Talking to you is almost like talking to the wall" because they are as hard a brick and don't understand any thing of what I'm trying to say !
“The public itself stopped reading of its own accord.” (87)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Does the government, people or technology cause this societies lack of knowledge?
I think that all of these factors contributed to the creation of the society in Fahrenheit 451. Below are the steps that I think caused this society their lack of knowledge:
Step One
People: They create technology that will allow them go, do, see and learn more things. The technology becomes a crutch and people become lazy because of their reliance/ dependence on technology. →
Step Two
Technology: People stop reading and learning because technology can fulfill their needs for them. In addition, the word “social” starts to take on a different meaning. Distracted by technology, people forget about their families, feelings, morals and values. →
Step Three
Government: They take advantage of lack of knowledge and use it to their advantage. The government tries to abolish all curiosity and learning. →
Fahrenheit 451
"Lord, there were a lot of lovely books once, before we let them go." pg.81
ReplyDeleteWhy did the government decide to "let them (books) go?
The government probably let books go because they were changing their society and it was harder to control people with open minds. For example, a lot of books were considered useless content with non-living people. The government was afraid that these censored books would influence people into separating themselves to form different social classes, racial and religious groups. Thus creating violence brought on by ones thoughts about another. It is as though this government has created a society of sameness. For instance, "If the government is inefficient, topheavy, and tax-mad, better it be all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag." (pg.61) This passage presents the government's reasoning for banishing books, so that people can be at ease with each other and their daily lives.
In the Fahrenheit 451 society, ones goals appear as not to achieve a high academic ratings or government positions, but to instead remain content. The government, in order to protect their own power and the jovial thoughts of their citizens assign firemen to eradicate the fiction, the fabrications of characters, whose own plights and problems might upset the jubilant. As books decreased in size, they began to be viewed, by both government and people as a threat, fearful of the harm a book might inflict, tips received by firemen, people snitching on their own neighbors gradually increased, these people, empty themselves, distraught and contemplative of the horrors books might contain.
Delete"this is the old and new testament, and... it might be the last copy in this part of the world." pg 76
ReplyDeletequestion: what does montag mean when he says it might be the last one in this part of the world?
answer:
i know that in the society that he lives in they burn books and that why it may be the last in that area. i began thinking if there were different societies in other parts of the world that treasure books or haven't burned as many. i think these societies are less strict about there rules or haven't worried much about them. i think that he says this in order to have a reason to preserve the book, if he had learn that there are more in the world, than i think he would've just burned it like any other book. i feel like he wants to know about the types of books out there and if there are copies left because he has to burn them under beatty's command. i begin to wonder about other places around the world and how their lives are.
“‘ I’m numb, he thought... The numbness will go away, he thought. It’ll take time, but I’ll do it, or Faber will do it for me. Someone somewhere will give me back the old face and the old hands the way they were... Once as a child he had sat upon a yellow dune by the sea in the middle of the blue and hot summer day, trying to fill a sieve with sand, because some cruel cousin had said, “Fill this sieve and you’ll get a dime!” And the faster he poured, the faster it sifted through with a hot whispering. His hands were tired, the sand was boiling, the sieve was empty. Seated there in the midst of July, without a sound, he felt the tears move down his cheeks.”” (pg.77-78)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: How does Montag’s current state relate to his child memory? Why is Ray Bradbury juxtaposing Montag’s thoughts with his childhood memory? What is this saying about Montag?
Answer: When Clarisse first questions Montag’s happiness, his own meaningless is disclosed allowing for a feeling of emptiness and later numbness to overflow his instincts, as without substance one is numb to the world. A consciousness of emptiness is one though that can only be discovered by someone, one with insight, as in a society where emptiness is expected of one, where emptiness is the norm, we become unaware of it as it becomes another convention, blind to many. As Montag has, without choice, become enveloped in this conformity, he too like everyone else is empty, empty of knowledge, empty of meaning, empty of happiness. Montag’s mind a sieve of which these all filter through leaving him numb and depressed, the crying boy of his memory.
Montag feels though that with the knowledge of books, he might fill this emptiness, like those who do so with facts, a way to “get a sense of motion without moving”. An effort done so that he might be jovial as he once, though empty but not feeling so, was, wearing a fiery smile, one he wishes to remain imprinted. This, though is an impossible task as Montag never having read books is lost to their insight, not filling up the emptiness but instead sifting their words, like sand, through the sieve. In his memory, Montag sits in the sun, hot under it’s rays as he tries desperately to fill his sieve with burning sand, a miserable and impossible task, seen in the current context as Montag, in the 451 society, one that is against books, filling his sieve with burning books, an attempt to grasp for knowledge, consummation, and thus happiness.
“That's the good part about dying; when you've nothing to lose, you run any risk you want...” (pg. 85)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Has this society really become so bad that risking your life is nothing? If books come from peoples thoughts, is stopping books suppose to stop the creativity and sharing of thoughts from people? Is Montags solution to fight fire with fire because thats all he knows or because its impossible to do anything else in a society that has been so burnt?
Answer: Montag has grown to a type of person who really doesn't think he has anything to loose. How is it that a person can get to a point so low that he is willing to risk his life. Is the world so cruel that they are killing people, taking away something that can never be brought back, for wanting to learn and expand their freedom of speech. Taking away books is taking away thoughts that are suppose to be shared and enlighten people. Thinking is what makes the brain grow and is one of the main goals in life. Does the society want to stop the people from becoming smarter or from expressing themselves? I think the society is trying to turn humans into emotionless robots that just follow order and believe are happy. The truth is in order for there to be happiness one must earn to deal with the bad part of life. There is a ying and a yang to everything in the world. Nothing is 100% happy or unhappy. Does Montag not know any other way to save the world other than setting people up and causing more death. Why cant he see things from a brighter perspective. I wouldn't know what to do in a situation like this, but I'm sure that all the other firemen aren't completely to blame so they shouldn't be burnt. I think the only solution left for these people is to get rid of all their technology and learn to really live life and feel pain and learn from the past and grow as human beings.
Sasha Kundin
ReplyDelete"The old man nodded. "Those who don't build must burn. It's as old as history and juvenile delinquents.
"So that's what I am."
"There's some of it in all of us."
pg85-86
Are most people not proud of what they are?
Montag lives in a society where firefighters burn books and he is self conflicted as to which side he supports. I mean he knows he's not like the others but I guess the old man is implying that no matter what he is, everyone is. In a way I feel deep down everyone living in this time or the firefighters in this time to be more specific, aren't all proud of who they are. But a part of them is because they were brought up to believe that this is he right way, and this is what makes you a good person. That's why its in "all of us." This can apply to us in many situations, maybe not as unique or maybe even more unique. When the old man said "it's in all of us", I think he was saying it comes to them as a second nature or natural feeling.