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What stands out to you from the last 10 pages of the novel? Is there resolution for Montag? What is Ray Bradbury trying to convey about a censored society? Choose a passage that really spoke to you and revealed some meaning/a larger understanding about Montag or the book in general.2) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post! Answer their questions, or pose a question of your own!
" I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I. That's where we met! I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago." ( Bradbury 160)
ReplyDeleteWhy does Montag remember where he met Mildred out of all times? Montag has so many things going on around him. He is being chased, he is a wanted man, and a thought that comes to his mind is where he met his wife. I think that Montag is so furious that Mildred died. He is mad that after all of his efforts to make her see life the way that he does, she turned him in to the fire department. I think that Montag wanted the wife that he met in Chicago back, not a lifeless( literally and figuratively) soul that has not care in the world except for a pseudo-family. He wanted Millie. He only loved Millie, not Mildred, the limp hollow person that he had lived with. I also think that Montag remembered where he met Mildred because it made him so angry when he found out that neither of them had known where they had met. Montag was looking for answers thorough the book and he has found a few of many more questions and puzzles that make up his life. I find it very interesting that when Mildred lost her life, Montag gained more life, more answers. It was like Montag and Mildred we a team and that they had to make sacrifices for one another.
(Happy Thanksgiving)
I completely agree with you. I think that it is a very significant part of the book that Montag remembers where they met, it shows that he reakky did have feelings for her. In addition, Montag could have just felt so bad about her dying and him not really loving her, that he felt that he owed it to her to remember. Another possibility is that when the bombs hit it was a traumatic moment, so he could have been trying to think of a time in his life when he was happy and he remembered his happy times with Mildred in Chicago. I agree with you about how Montag and Mildred were a team and that they make sacrifices for each other. I believe that Mildred was actually trying to understand Montag and his reading of books, but at some point she couldn't keep it a secret anymore. Maybe Mildred isn't the horrible person that Ray Bradbury has you see, I think that she might have been trying to make things work with Montag, she was just too brainwashed and empty already.
DeleteI thought this quote was really interesting to because Montag is basically running for his life he is a fugitive and he stops to think about the time he met Mildred. I also agree with you Melanie that Montag is upset at the fact that Mildred died. I think it has to do with when he said he didn't care if she died and how he wasn't going to be sad about it so why all of a sudden he starts to feels angry? I was also upset at Mildred about not remembering where they met causing Montag to be so furious because the Millie he met in Chicago is not the some Millie who died and so Montag wanted to be the person who cared in the relationship he wanted to remember not like Mildred who simply didn't even try to remember where they met. Also I disagree with you when you said that Mildred was understanding about Montag and his books. I think she turned him in because she didn't want to get in trouble. She thought that if Montag got caught than she would go down with him and the best way to prevent that from happening to her was to turn her own husband in. Honestly I think she just cares about herself and she didn't want to be caught and end up in trouble.
Delete"I suddenly realized I wasn't crying for him at all, but for all the things he did. I cried because he would never do them again..." (155-156)
ReplyDeleteThis passage doesn't have a lot to do with the ending of the book, but it was one of my favorite parts of the book, so I have to share. Granger says this after Montag tells him that his wife is back in the city, and how he isn't sad, he wouldn't even be sad if she died. I think that Granger really helped Montag in this situation and made a lot of sense of it. Since Mildred never really did anything for Montag he would have nothing to cry about when she was gone. Even after Granger says this Montag says "I think of her hands but I don't see them doing anything at all." This is in a way admitting that Mildred didn't really mean a lot to Montag, he was just following the flow of society and getting married. Mildred wasn't even nice to him, she turned him in to the firemen, she didn't understand him. I found it weird that Montag seems to care so little about Mildred but when the bombs were dropped the first thing he thought about was Mildred dying, and he finally remembers where they met. He categorized her in a way with Faber and Clarisse, which were Montag's best friends, so maybe Montag really does love Mildred and is just confused.
I personally did not understand this part. It is kind of he opposite of what Montag was saying I feel. I think Montag is saying to trying to say that even he won't cry because there is no impact that Montag has. Her hands have only touched the parlor. There is a quote I know and it goes, "Our fingerprints cannot be erased from the lives of those we have touched." I felt that perfectly connected and that was what Granger was trying to say. But the problem is Mildred's fingerprints have not touched anything.
DeleteI agree with you and I think it connects to how Montag responded to Clarisse passing away. Montag was upset that there was no one to help Montag discover his thoughts on book . Without Clarisse Montag has to think about what is wrong with the world which is the same for Garnger but in the case of his grandfather
DeleteAnd when he died, I suddenly realized I wasn't crying for him at all, but for all the things he did. - 155
ReplyDeleteGranger says this right after talking about his grandfather, and this is very important for Montag because he doesn't know that he has anything to leave for, and is frighten that it would be weird for him not to cry for his wife Mildred. He was worried about what might happen to him later on. After that, Granger then gives a lecture on how his grandfather was very kind to him, and he said that all the things he had was the things that he could think about his grandfather for.
"The sound of its death came after." (Page 153)
ReplyDeleteI choose this quote because I felt that is was very powerful. It reminded me of the six word memoirs we did. There is so much jammed packed in the seven words and to everyone it means something different. To Montag it is listening to the war going on around him. For me it is like being surround by sadness and not being able to escape, like a ringing in your ear. Its there nagging at your reminding you of something you do not want to. But for Montag it makes him remember like a ringing in his ear. Something about it stood out to me and I feel it will be looked over because it is small. Also I have some just final thoughts on the book. We probably will talk about in school but I wanted to express them here if anyone else had ideas. Personally I did not like the book and I was wondering about the ending. I did not really understand it and I did not feel it closed up the book like it should have. Okay, that was is.
Molly, I'm shocked to hear that you didn't enjoy the novel. On the contrary, I adored it. Personally, I felt that the concepts present in the novel were brilliant. I was deeply fascinated by the subject too much human reliance on technology, which I learned can have it’s downfalls.
DeleteThough, like you, I did feel as if the ending could've been better. I was hoping for something phenomenal to happen...a miracle even, to be honest. Though, there was nothing of the sort. I really agree with you when you say: "I did not really understand it and I did not feel it closed up the book like it should have." Like you, I felt as if the novel ended too abruptly, that too without proper closure. Isn't the city supposed to be a dangerous place for fugitives? If so, why is Montag heading towards the city? The ending was very confusing.
I hope discussions in class will clear up our confusions.
I agree with you Jeni, I think that the novel was amazing! ( Molly it is ok we are all ijntitled to our own opinions.)
DeleteI liked the ending. I thought that it was nice that Bradbury did not make everything end happily ever after, because honestly I find those books boring. I think that if Bradbury had made everything end well then there would be nothing for the reader to imagine. I felt very close to the book, I felt like I was living along side with all of the characters. I did however get confused towards the end of the book and I had to reread the last ten pages twice before I really understood it.
I agree with the importance of your quote. It is an example of two things Bradbury does constantly in the novel He not only personifies things but he makes a distinct refrence to whether it si dead or alive. By saying the city itself is dead, not just the people in it, he is implying that the city must have once been teeming with life. Also, one question that came to my mind after reading this was, how will this effect Montag? Even though his wife and neighbors were killed, he didn’t appear to love them. He wasn’t so deeply connected to them like he was Clarisse. I think it will make him stronger though, because now he knows that death and destruction are relavent layers in his life. This event has made him more aware of the real world and the struggles it faces.
DeleteThe ending was very confusing, but I agree with Melanie and Jeni. The novel was interesting because he made us imagine what it was like to be in futuristic society. It is interesting to find out what are our lives will be like in the future so that later we could change it for better. The ending is very confusing because it should however explain what happens to Montag after he reaches the city and what he plans to do change his society for the better.
DeleteHeyyy :( I loved the book! I do understand what you mean by not understanding the ending of the book but i think that quote came from a book that Montag may have read and it stuck with him because he may have felt like it is important. Maybe we should look it up and find out what exactly it means and maybe it will help us understand the book so much more! :)
DeleteI agree that the ending of the book was confusing it didn't really make any sense because there wasn't this specific closure or even a cliffhanger. I thought the ending of this book was really going to refer back to him running away with the other "runaways" and what will happen next. but overall I feel that the book was so interesting and fascinating to read because it sort of changes your mind and your perspective towards the future or even the present. would this ever happen would technology be the only thing we would rely on for existence. Relationships would never be the same, you wont have this ort of sympathy for your friends but just enforcing the law enforcing the government decisions.
Delete“Listen,” said Granger, taking his arm and walking up with him, holding aside the bushes to let him pass. “When I was a boy, my grandfather died, and he was a sculptor. He was also a very kind man who had a lot of love to give the world, and he helped clean up the slum in our town; and he made toys for us and he did a million things in his lifetime; he was always busy with his hands. And when he died, I suddenly realized I wasn’t crying for him at all, but for all the things he did. I cried because he would never do them again, he would never carve another piece of wood or help us raise doves and pigeons in the back yard or play the violin the way he did, or tell us jokes the way he did. He was part of us and when he died, all the actions stopped dead and there was no one to do them just the way he did. He was individual. He was an important man. I've never gotten over his death. Often I think, what wonderful carvings never came to birth because he died. How many jokes are missing from the world, and how many homing pigeons untouched by his hands. He shaped the world. He did things to the world. The world was bankrupted of ten million fine actions the night he passed on.” (Page 155—156)
ReplyDeleteDistasteful nights veiled by false pretenses and a longing to resurrect those who once were, though to no avail. The irony of living is that we are surrounded by objects subject to possessing immortality. While the universe has all the time in the world—the universe: it has infinity—we have merely a numbered amount of days for our breaths. In the end, we have no choice but to tread our ways carefully through the stream of life, with hopes that the amounts of breaths we are supplied is enough. Are you going to give your life a purpose, like Granger's grandfather did? Or will you remain in your ignorant state of oblivion, submitting yourself to death without having made your mark in the world? The inevitable cannot be avoided. Leave your legacy imprinted on the heart of this withering planet before the clock strikes destruction. You were born with a purpose.
“The difference between the man who just cuts the lawns and a real gardener is in the touching. The lawn-cutter might just as well not been there at all; the gardener will be there a lifetime.” (Bradbury 143)
ReplyDeleteI chose this passage because it is so profound and gives hope for the society Montag lives in. The person who cuts the lawn is only grazing the surface of the grass, which will grow back anyways, so his efforts would have been in vain, It is a more temporary change and once the grass grows back, no one will be able to tell that the grass had even been cut in the first place, The change does not have a lasting effect. But the gardener is the one whose changes to the ground are apparent. The gardener is the one who decides what grows where and what is planted. This change is permemanant because even if a fire or flood causes everything to die, the first thing that will grow back are those seeds still routed in the ground. The gardeners work is obvious to even a casual observer because he is the reason there is a garden at all. The gardens state, whether it’s well kept or let loose, whether it is all flowers or all vegtables, is all the gardeners work. This relates to Montags society because people have been acting like lawn cutters, just making a reversiable change or no change at all. The hope is that people will make a big change, a change that turns the course of history and helps the citizens of this era. There can be no change in this society without the gardeners, and Montag and the people he is with could make a change that lasts for centuries.
I was going to do this quote but then realized you did it so picked another one. When I read that quote I had a brief ‘light bulb’ moment. I disagree when you said it gives hope for the society. I believe it doesn’t give hope for the society. Instead I think it was meant to gives Montag some confidence. I also feel as though the way the lawn-cutter cuts things was an important aspect. The lawn-cutter is cutting something, or shaping the plant in a way it’s not meant to be, like the way the government does to the citizens. The government and the lawn-cutter have the same power, the power to control how things grow. On the other hand the planter allows things to grow and the plants are evidence of the gardener’s hard work like an author to a book. A book is the author’s proof of their hard work and a book allows the author to be remembered for the simple fact that it was theirs, ‘they touched it’. Overall, I feel as though the occupation of the gardener and lawn-cutter was a very important aspect in this quote.
Delete"…She saw her own face reflected there, in a mirror instead of a crystal ball, and it was such a wildly empty face, all by itself in the room, touching nothing, starved and eating of itself, that at last she recognized it as her own and looked quickly up at the ceiling as it and the entire structure of the hotel blasted down upon her…"
ReplyDeleteThis passage really stood out to me because it shows that finally, even in the last few seconds of her life, Mildred understood what Montag and Clarisse were so interested in. she looked at her reflection and didn't see her "family" or the parlor T.V's, she saw herself. and even though it was a "wildly empty" or gray face, it was her own, and other citizens living in this time would not have the guts to look at their reflection and really think about it like she did. I think ray Bradbury wanted mildred to feel for once like a normal person, not a robot.
When I saw this quote, I automatically thought that her reflection and well being seemed boring and unimportant to her. Mildred looking up at the ceiling shows that she is looking for something to take her mind away form the world and to get lost in something like the parlor walls did. Mildred looking up at the ceiling as if "the entire structure of the hotel blasted down upon her" shows that Mildred can't deal with her reflecttion which represents the truth so she automatically thinks of a way out, death.
DeleteI agree with your response to this passage. I also think that when she saw her reflection in the screen of this parlor wall she finally realized Montag's point of view. It's pretty sad, too, considering that she only realized this in the last seconds of her life. Mildred only realized what was worth living for and what wasn't until it was too late. It was interesting that like you said, in the last moment of her life, Bradbury made Mildred seem more like a person than a robot. It's almost like he wanted Mildred to die with regret of never opening her eyes to the world around her.
Delete“He did things to the world. Something your hands touched…you’d find the big ridges of his thumbprint.” Pg. 156-157
ReplyDeleteThis passage was when Granger was talking about why people are remembered. I agree with Granger when he says it’s not who you are but it’s what you “did” that makes people remember you. When I first read this quote it made me think about all the times Montag has touched books and the way he described his hands working on their own. I also feel as though Montag will be remembered for touching the books because he stood up for what he believed in, even though it went against his occupation and what the society believed in. Overall this passage makes me question whether taking action or remember is more important.
"It's strange I don't miss her, it's strange I don't feel much of anything," said Montag."Even if she dies, I realized a moment ago, I don't think I'll feel sad. It isn't right. Something must be wrong with me.
ReplyDeleteWhen clarisse first came a long, Montag started to questions things in his life. One of the things that he began to questioned was his relationship with his wife. From the very start I felt like they didn't love each other. She didn't really care about Montag. She didn't understand him like clarisse did. She never listened to his ideas or opinions, she honestly did not give a damn about him. She was the one who turn him in to Beatty. How can you do that to your own husband? Montag from the very start said that he would not care if she dies and I feel as if Montag is sort of relieved that Mildred is gone like she was a burden on his shoulders. He doesn't miss her and he is not sad which says a lot about their marriage. He even thinks that something is wrong with him because he has no type of feeling or emotions when it comes down to Mildred.
i agree but what role do you think clarisse played in his questionability of mildred? because i think that clarrise wanted to make him be a rebel but the only thing holding him back was mildred and i think that clarisse facilitated in the hatred of mildred also what has mildred even done in her life like why is she married.
DeleteI agree, I also feel like cheering him on because she betrayed him and to say that yo don't miss someone you were married too is very hard to admit. I also agree that Mildred will never understand him as much as Clarisse will and I think that thats the best thing that has happened to him so that he can finally leave her. I feel like he was forced to marry her because take care so little for a person to not even cry when she dies is something very harsh to say.
DeleteI agree and disagree with you Lily. I disagree with you about how Clarisse was the one who made Montag question his life, because sometime in the middle of the book he tells Mildred that he has been collecting books for over a year, and in the beginning of the novel Montag was grinning about buring down a building with books. So I don't think that Clarisse made him question what he felt about the ban on books, although she did play a huge role on continuing to convince Montag that he isn't like the rest of society, and even though she didn't give it to him straight, her hints and clues sure did point in that direction. However, I agree with you about Mildred not being able to understand her husband in 10 years the way Clarisse was able to in just a week. I feel that if Mildred wasn't in Montag's life then he would have read books a while ago. Also, Montag always said that he would never care if she died, and I agree with how he is relieved she is gone from his life. Another thing that I agree with is about what Noah said about what was Clarisse's role. When we first started to read the book, I thought that Montag and Clarisse would be the main characters of the book and everything would evolve around how they are both rebellious. However, when she was killed, I felt that her role was just to convince Montag 100% that the government is wrong. He obviously had a really strong relationship with her, and when he found out why she was killed, I believe he thought that there has to be something important in these books that made the one person who actually understood him to do this. So I think that was Clarisse's role.
Deletehello
Delete" Its strange i don't miss her, its strange, i don't feel much of anything."... " I think of her hands but i don't see of them doing anything at all."
ReplyDeleteThis passage revealed that Montag finaly realized something, which is that after all the time pretending that he loved mildred he really doesn't. He doesn't care about her to a point that even if she died he wouldn't care. So this just shows that Montag married a women that he has no idea who she even is and doesn't have anything in common with her. Also this just shows that mildred was so caught up with the parlor walls that Montag doesn't even remember ONE thing that mildred has done besides smoke so that just shows how point less it was for Montag to marry her Montag. This passage just makes me wonder what Montag's mind set was when he married her?
I agree with Noah, Why did Montag marry Mildred if she is nothing to him? He doesn't even care, that she died. It was very pointless for Montag to marry Mildred in the earlier passage Mildred doesn't even remember where she and Montag first met. It's very ironic, that you can marry or like someone without even getting to know the person first. I think Montag's mind set when he married Mildred was that he didn't even think or care about who he wanted to marry he just wanted to marry the person.
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ReplyDelete"And hold onto one thought: You're not important. You're not anything. Someday the load we're carrying with us may help someone"(pg.163)
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because it shows how much people care each other in our society today and the government in this futuristic society. Granger says "You're not important. You're anything" reminds how the government had treated its citizens in his society. The government made people empty, dull, boring, bland, living in a world Montag thinks is all gray, restricted to the outside world by making them feel addicted to their technology and being completely oblivious to their surroundings. It reveals how much the government had treated the citizens throughout the novel to make them feel like their nothing and they're are not important due to the fact the government is brainwashing them. The government are the most powerful people in the society, but they do not taking time to care about citizens in their own society. It reminds of a quote "With great power, comes great responsibility" The government has a lot of power, How come they don't treat their citizens as important? Why are citizens considered nothing? How come they're not being responsible of its citizens? The Citizens are not nothing and they're important because they are people make up the society in Montag's world. The government should have more respect towards their citizens since they're in charge of the people in Montag's world. Going back to the quote, I think what Granger is trying to say is that people are important, but sometimes we have to sacrifice ourselves in order to secure a better future. Montag is valuable, but he is not as special compared to someone else. It relates to the real world because we can't go on around saying we're special because we are not any different than anyone else. However, we are different because we are unique person with individual traits, ideas, beliefs, hobbies etc.
“Yes, all that. But what else. What else? Something, Something… Yes, thought Montag, that’s the one I’ll save for noon. For noon…” (pg. 165)
ReplyDeleteThis passage really reveals a lot about the society that Montag once lived in. The citizen were dull and basically lived in their parlor walls due to their lack in purpose. They didn't have to accomplish anything in life because they didn't have to think about anything but to do as they were told by the government. They don't even have to look out for their neighbors but instead tell the firemen if their neighbors had books. At the end of the novel Montag feels that he has purpose in the new society he now lives in. As Montag and the people by the old road tracks across the river travel, they think of things that can tell each other. They want to be able to talk about things that happen in the world instead of avoiding it. Talking will lead to the creation of new ideas and also the understanding of things in the world. The sense of purpose also pushes one to try really hard to accomplish something in order to be remembered and to leave something behind for other generations.
"I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember. Chicago. Chicago along time ago. Millie and I. That's where we met! I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago." (p160)
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm so confused about is why Montag chose to even think about Mildred. She left him and all he thought about was her. After continuing to constantly say that he wouldn't care if she died. Also, if Mildred really did love Montag, she would never
turn her husband in to the government. He knows that yet he continues to think of her. He knows that he doesn't love her because he never got to know her. When you marry someone for 10 years you get to know them even more. However, she was mesmerized by the parlor walls she was never able to get to know her husband, and vice versa.
I agree with you ending statement. However, I think Montag thought of Mildred because he was still confused and speaking previously about her probably sparked that memory. Granger was telling Montag, "No, nothing's ever lost."(pg.151) Since nothing is ever lost, this proves Montag always had that memory stored in his mind.
Delete" 'Do you really think they'll listen then?' 'If not , we'll jus have to wait. We'll pass the books on to our children,by word of mouth, and let our children wait , in turn , on the other people. A lot will be will lost that way of course . But you can't make people listen. They have to come round in their own time, wondering what happened and why the world blew under them . It can't last."
ReplyDeleteI really love this quote because I feel that it shows the other side of the fire. It shows the warmth and devotion instead of destroying . Montag finely has some one to look up to and admire ...Granger . He understand the whole how the society works and what has to happen in order for things to change of the better. Bradbury I feel, has replace the role of Clarisse with Granger . I picked this quote because I felt like it smudged up what Montag's goal is and who he is paired to be.
Alexandra Kundin
ReplyDelete"The concussion knocked the air across and down the river, turned the men over like dominoes in a line, blew the water in lifting sprays, and blew the dust and made the trees above them mourn with a great wind passing away south. Montag crushed himself down, squeezing himself small, eyes tight. He blinked once. And in that instant saw the city, instead of the bombs, in the air. They had displaced each other. For another of those impossible instants the city stood, rebuilt and unrecognizable, taller than it had ever hoped or strived to be, taller than man had built it, erected at last in gouts of shattered concrete and sparkles of torn metal into a mural hung like a reversed avalanche, a million colors, a million oddities, a door where a window should be, a top for bottom, a side for a back, and then the city rolled over and fell down dead.
The sound of its death came after." pg 153
This passage stood out to me the most again because of the description and detail used to describe the city, but what actually stood out to me was the sentence. Although it is only 7 words, nothing in this book hit me harder than those few words. I felt as if I was Montag and the image of the city kept being built up but all of it was gone when the war began and it gave me a feeling of sadness and loneliness, as in general this whole book gave me a dark vibe. I don't believe there is resolution for Montag, I feel as if the ending was rushed and not really well thought out. I feel as if Bradbury could have thought it out more, for example. Montag stumbles across a small society that supports books, which is just an easy way out of things. The whole book talks about how society is against books, and he just magically finds a few people who aren't? The ending was unsatisfying, although beautifully written.
"I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I. That's where we met. I remember now. Chicago . A long time ago."-Page 160
ReplyDeleteI actually love this quote c: I find this quote very interesting, upsetting, yet tragically romantic. It was strange to me when he thought of Mildred in such a random situation. But, when I actually read carefully, I realized that he remembered where Mildred and him met when he was in danger. I find this some what romantic. (Sappy romantic music plays in background). I think the reason why I love this quote so much is because he remembers the small details of Mildred and how they met when he feels like he was in danger and that it may have been his last moment alive and I find that very beautiful. It also makes me wonder. Is it possible that Montag actually does love Mildred? When he thought of her being in danger he automatically wanted to look out for her and warn her and he constantly thinks about her and I feel like although he may not love her as much as he did once, he still does love her and would not want anything bad to happen to her. BEAUTIFUL BOOK <3
Why, when Montag sees Mildred destroyed, blown up by a bomb, he remembers their meeting place? How is their meeting place relevant to their connection and does it effect Montag’s love for Mildred? Are these the memories, rememberings that will effectively allow for Granger and the others to “win out in the long run”, and bury war? How?
Delete"i remember. Montag clung to the earth. i remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. millie and i. that's where we met! i remember now. Chicago. a long time ago." pg. 160
ReplyDeletethis quote stood out to me because Bradbury said in the last few pages "don't try. it'll come when you need it. all of us have photographic memories..." and just when mildred dies he starts to remember where they met. what im wondering is why he remembered this, he doesn't need to know it at that time. i think he remembers this because it shows he really did like mildred. this is weird because Mildred could hardly care for him, she seemed to only care for her parlor walls. Montag then also starts to remember a part of the book of Ecclesiastes, and i think he's remembering this to calm himself or distract himself from thinking of Mildred.
Mildred did seem to care less about Montag. I think this shows that Montag DID have feelings for her but just didn't know it. At first I thought Montag didn't care for her but I then realized that Mildred was the reason he started questioning things. He was listening to Clarisse and thinking about his wife. If Mildred was not in him life, then he would not have question things. Even though their relationship was awful, Montag had hidden feelings for her deep down inside but just did not know it. I understand where Montag is coming from because if you obviously married someone there is going to be a reason behind it. I also think Mildred did have some type of feelings towards Montag but just wouldn't question it. Mildred at one point did help Montag read the books!
Delete" I remember. Montag clung to the earth. I remember. Chicago. Chicago a long time ago. Millie and I. That's where we met! I remember now. Chicago. A long time ago." (160)
ReplyDeleteWhy does Montag decide now to remember about how they met ? Does he still have feelings for her ? Why does he call her "Millie"?
I think Montag doesn't have feelings for her. In my opinion I think the government forced him to marry her. Nobody would marry someone they wouldn't even pretend to cry for after they die. I also think that "Millie" is a nick name. I think he forgave her, I would've still been mad but Montag forgave her. A person that would've been mad wouldn't haven even brought up the term of remembering where they met. Montag is letting go of "fire" and everything else i feel like the river represented the cleansing of him to take everything out and start brand new.
I disagree with you on that. Montag didn't know how to feel period, it wasn't because he didn't have feelings for her...it's just that he didn't really know how to have feelings in general. The corrupting government is just too much that it even goes to how a person thinks about his/her's spouse. He really tries to make the best out of their relationship, but Mildred is brainwashed too much by the government that she's just another robot that is designed to be a law abiding citizen, it's nothing about Montag not loving Mildred.
DeleteErybel I really like your question and I believe I have the answer. I think that Montag decides to remember this part of his relationship with Mildred because he feels deeply betrayed by Mildred since I remember reading in the book that Montag and Mildred were married for like ten years and ten years is a long time you would think you could trust a person who not only you know for that long but also slept by your side at night. I honestly don’t think he has feelings for Mildred after what she did because Montag seemed really upset by her actions since tried really hard to show and persuade Mildred about why he was taking such drastic actions and why they weren’t wrong but in the end Mildred actually ends up handing Montag to the authorities. In conclusion, Montag calls Mildred “Mille” because Millie was the person Montag fell in love with and the person he decides to share the rest of his life and Mildred is just the cold lifeless zombie that walks around making Montag’s life miserable.
Delete"My wife, my wife. Poor Millie, poor, poor Millie. I cant remember anything. I think of her hands but I don't see them doing anything at all. they just hang there at her sides or they lay there on her lap or there's a cigarette in them, but that's all."
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me out of this part because it summarizes the relationship between Montag and Mildred and the reason why this bonding is so vacant and full of emptiness. its something that you just read and just know how Montag feels or even looks at Mildred as her companion for life. this quote is very interesting and debatable. There is a side of this quote that show Montag almost feeling sorry for Mildred in the way she is living and the circumstances she is stuck with in her life. Montag chose the right path or society to live in. He has this second chance to re-live himself, life and mind in which he always second guessing himself and acting this rebellion against the government. However Mildred has been the culprit during this time because of her actions. she was the woman who believed that backstabbing her own husband, he own soul mate was the right thing to do in following and respecting the law. Her mid was brainwashed into this sort of tamed animal who does what is told at any time or at any place. her mind being brainwashed into believing that these parlor walls were once her family members, the only ones that can talk to her was the only thing she can ever rely on. Mildred never had a voice or even felt her body ripped into these two complex sides. not finding their true identity but determining their "mind" or "right" in society. Another reason why this quote is significant because he acknowledges Mildred by her hands. in this case, Montag's hands have brought him to this world of nature and this astonishing view of life, the very first thing his hands ever did was to take a book during a fire. His mind opened, began to experiment with one's mind. hands are the only way he can show this rebellious side of him, the action he wouldn't take in this society.
“When I was a boy, my grandfather died, and he was a sculptor. He was also a very kind man who had a lot of love to give the world, and he helped clean up the slum in our town; and he made toys for us and he did a million things in his lifetime; he was always busy with his hands. And when he died, I suddenly realized I wasn’t crying for him at all, but for all the things he did. I cried because he would never do them again, he would never carve another piece of wood or help us raise doves and pigeons in the back yard…”
ReplyDelete~Bradbury 148-149/155—156
When I read this quote I was completely inspired and mesmerized by how deep and thought provoking this quote was since the message that was being sent out was very realistic. I realize that the analysis is supposed to relate back to Montag and Bradbury’s message by using Montag but I think the quote is deeper than Montag. This quote is talking about how we human never treasure anything of value until it’s finally no longer there. I believe that Bradbury was attempting to portray his message by using Montag’s confusion. For instance, throughout the novel Montag realizes that he was never happy with his lifestyle and he wants to create a change but Montag doesn’t know how to create that change he longs for. We human beings a fragile creation are always petrified to be alone and forgotten so we attempt to do many different things that get that attention in order to fill in that empty void inside us, but at the end is all futile since we all die alone. Anyhow, that was part of the message but the other parts are that says that we all must actually accept the morbid truth about life which says that we will all die alone and someday be forgotten. But rather than, count the days we have left of our short lifetime and live as an ignorant who refuses to accept the truth, humans should actually take many courageous decisions that will forever be remembered not only by our current generation but the as well the ones to come. Look at George Washington for example he lived in a very chaotic era where you weren’t expected to live long but he ignored that and rose against the flowing tide and decided to create a change that would forever change human history which was to participate in war and put his life at risk in order to give birth to a new country. I believe that Bradbury was trying to say that life is like the wind its majestic and strong when it’s alive and healthy but when it is at the verge of death it a weak breeze so in order to create a strong wind even when you are dying you should leave your mark in the world and live life its fullest.
"We're going to meet a lot of lonely people in the next week and the next month and the next year. And when they ask us what we're doing, you can say, we're remembering." (164)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out for me. For years this society looks at the dead with disgust, as if they weren't their husband,children, mothers, and wives. They are so afraid of becoming upset, that it turns to hatred for their loved ones in the after life. All emotions were dedicated just for the government. The brainwashing, the unfair treatment is unbearable in my opinion. Taking away basic civil rights in general. They're forbidden to remember, forbidden to make mistakes, even forbidden to love in this case. Why? It's the government's excuse to get the civilians to no think about war, and when it comes eventually it will bite them in the butt. But, in this case, Ray B. is telling us to remember to make mistakes, to learn from them. And respect the ones that came before us :)
i strongly agree with you Hebh. i believe that society wasn't able to realize their mistakes due to the Government brainwashing them to a point were the people are "gray" and i believe also that ray.B is trying to reach to the reader by tellling us that In order to make a strong generation, it's always better to look back and remember the past becasue you learn from it and that's what helps brighten the future. giving it a different meaning in some way.
Delete“He saw her in her hotel room somewhere now in the half second remaining with bombs in the yard, a foot, an inch from her building. He saw her leaning toward the great shimmering walls of color and motion where the family talked and talked and talked to her, where the family prattled and chatted and said her name and smiled at her and said nothing of the bomb that was an inch, now half an inch, now a quarter inch from the top of the hotel. Leaning into the wall as if all of the hunger of looking would find the secret of her sleepless unease there. Mildred, leaning anxiously, nervously, as if to plunge, drop, fall into that swarming immensity of color to drown in its bright happiness... saw or felt the walls go dark in Millie’s face, heard her screaming, because in the millionth part of time left, she saw her own face reflected there, in a mirror instead of crystal ball, and it was such an empty wild face...touching nothing, starved and eating of itself, that at last she recognized it as her own...” (pg.159)
ReplyDeleteIn this scene, an apocalyptic moment is achieved. Those considered good, saved as they already had been from society, and those considered dead, each submitting to society, killed. Mildred’s “family”, unlike Montag, do not attempt to warn her of the impeding disaster as their own world is one of contentment and joy, not containing such problems. This world proclaimed to have no difficulties, is where Mildred wishes be. As she leans in to the TV, moving “anxiously” and “nervously”, trying to fall in, hoping that she too might join the color. Mildred wishes to drown her self in happiness, an act done to solve “her sleepless unease”, a suffering Mildred, that which commits suicide in the first chapter. Absorbing herself completely into a world where only pleasure, and chatter exist, as happiness is a nonexistent emotion, one only found in the TV’s of Fahrenheit 451, the reason many watch it constantly in an effort to gain its merriment. TV too, provides ignorance to the sorrow found everywhere in the Fahrenheit 451 society. Walls that masked Mildred's sadness, so bright she could not see her own lack of colors, and of happiness. The bombs though leave Mildred to confront her own vacancy, as when Mildred observes herself she can no longer see the refracted colors and light, it’s walls a crystal ball, but the empty person she really is. A reflection frightening to Mildred, as she had never imagined herself to be a starved person, and instead one of the family, happy and content. The Mildred she now perceives in the empty walls is not one of joy, but identical to the empty grey walls themselves, shutdown and starved of all knowledge and meaning. As without the TV, Mildred is exposed as the meaningless person she is.
" There was a silly damn bird called a phoenix back before Christ, every few hundred years he built a pyre and burned himself up. but every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again". pg. 156
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because it somehow revealed a connection between the bird and Montag in my mind. i believe that these two are alike because the bird burns himself up to then rise from the ashes and be born all over again. by the same token, Montag is in someway doing what the Phoenix bird does because in my mind he was burning himself up when he would burn those books that gave knowledge to one another, he was burning himself up when he would think of something and then do another thing with his hands. he was burning himself up since DAY HE BECAME A FIREMEN! because he would try to avoid his thoughts of knowledge and follow what he was told, burning and burning for years. I feel that since the day he started reading books and decided that he never wanted to burn a thing, killing beatty, doing all these things that were against the law but yet did what he thought was right in the world of knowledge. which is why i believe he was born all over again and rose from the ashes which were the burdens he carried around with him, ( being a firemen and not understanding the meaning and history of what he was doing, not knowing why he didn't feel a certain way for his wife, etc). this bird somehow reflected Montag's inner self and what he truly was as a person which i respect him for this. Montag can lead the city to be rebuild and have a new way of life. extinguishing the emptiness in people and the grayness in all the society.and giving the world color as he observes the world in a different way. his rebellious actions lead to a new Montag.
"There was a silly damn bird called a phoenix... every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again. And it looks like we're doing the same thing, over and over, but we got one damn thing the phoenix never had... We know all the damn silly things we've done for thousands of years... someday we'll stop making the goddamn funeral pyres and jumping in the middle of them." pg.163
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because this reminded me of what we've been discussing during class about fire and the message Bradbury tries to convey through it. Bradbury's message is after going through the fire, we come out reborn. This means after Montag and his new friends went through the shocks of the bombs, they came out cleansed. Montag especially experienced a detox by suddenly acknowledging the world and the type of society that he lives in. Also what caught my interest was Granger stating the difference between them and the phoenix. Pyre means the burning of a corpse in a funeral ceremony. Granger basically says many people have been well aware of the happenings in their society: suicides, violence, killings. It's only when he then replies that, one day someone will rise up against the government and it will end the majority of killings, suicides and violence. Could that person be Montag?
I agree, also I think Montag looks as fire in a positive way (obviously) as society does, thus the fireman making fires instead of putting them out. Montag sees the beauty and ideas of fire as getting ride of the old and bringing in the new or helping the present. By being reborn the fire changes the bad things into something new that could turn into something great. This to me seems brainwashed , its as if the sea of fire destroying life and that history helps us is unthought of and not seen as a possibility.
Delete"And the war began and ended in that instant.
ReplyDeleteLater, the men around Montag could not say they had really seen anything. Perhaps the merest fourths of light and motion in the sky. Perhaps the bombs were theres, and the jets, ten miles, five miles, one mile up, for the merest instant, like grain thrown over the heavens by a great sowing hand, and the bombs drifting with dreadful swiftness, yet sudden slowness down upon the morning city the had left behind." (Bradbury, 151)
This passage had stood out to me because it had played a scene that was probably a fraction of a second long into a really long passage. I was a little confused about what Bradbury meant when he said, "Later, the men around Montag could not say they had really seen anything." Maybe this is because Montag had observed the scene with such caution and admiration, no one, not even the book people could relate to. Montag is looking at this society through a different lens for the first time. He has finally seen this society fall to pieces and he was able to escape it.
"For it is a mad world and it will get madder if we allow the minorities, be they dwarf or giant, orangutan or dolphin, nuclear-head or water-conversationalist, pro-computerologist or Neo-Luddite, simpleton or stage, to interfere with aesthetics. The real world is the playing ground for each and every group, to make or unmake laws" (pg. 178)
ReplyDeleteThe comparisons Bradbury uses are quite interesting in his way of thinking. First he compares "dwarfs to giants", showing size and appearance probably to mean power. Then he thinks of "orangutans or dolphins" which are both very intelligent and very different animals. Orangutans like on land and have a fiery fur color, while dolphins live in the water and are smooth and loving. Then he writes "nuclear" vs "water" representing the thought of technology against nature. And finally he compares "simpleness" with "stage" probably to represent attention or extravagant and colorful. After all the comparisons he says that all of that is to not interfere with looks and appearance which to me shows how the society wants everyone to be happy no mater how fake it is. Everyone needs to be happy and if one thing is out of place or ruining the "aesthetics" of the society and if one thing is out of place it must be destroyed and not to cause unhappiness. I think all these things make the world they live in "mad"
"My wife, my wife. Poor Millie, poor, poor Millie. I can't remember anything. I think of her hands but I don't see them doing anything at all... she saw he own face reflected there, in a mirror instead of a crystal ball, and it was a wildly empty face..." (Bradbury 148,152)
ReplyDeleteWhy does Montag start to question about Mildred NOW? They have been married for 10 years and he starts to wonder what was wrong in their marriage NOW?
Montag began to ask questions because the people in their society spend most of their life's not saying things they want to say, but the things they should say. He wanted to know why Mildred turned on him and why he had no emotion in losing her. However, Montag "did" love Mildred, but wanted to remember the reason why he did. He wanted to remember what made him fall in love with her and why she acts the way she is. I think he started asking questions after all these years because he finally let the water wipe out all the fire in him. Clarisse reminded him that everything was suppose to happen for a reason and that led Montag to question things. Perhaps he wanted to figure out why Mildred turned him in and what the reflection of herself was. I think that Mildred makes him want to question things in life because if they never had boring relationship then Montag would think Clarisse is just out of her mind like everyone else thinks. Mildred is a huge impact on his life because at some point he did have feelings for her. I mean they did get married, it's not like it was arranged. Montag would not have the ability to rebel because if Mildred was not in his life, he would not have been questioning things in life. The first thing he ever questioned was his feelings towards Mildred.