Monday, December 3, 2012
B-BAND: Color of Water Chapters 11 + 12
1) Write a response, choosing a line and explaining it's significance to you. Please remember: no plot re-cap! Share your analysis, make connections to the world, ask questions, discuss imagery, and deepen your thinking.
2) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
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"But when I was a teenager I wanted to be like them-American and WASP and going around in style, going dancing, but my parents wouldn't have that."-page 109
ReplyDeleteEveryone always wants what they don't have. In this quote, Ruth admits that once wanted to be someone else totally different from who she was because she didn't like the rules that she had to follow. I think because she was forbidden to do something that she ended up doing it anyway just to know what it feels like. I don't blame her for feeling this way consider all the things she's been through. I wonder if she is still feel this way though. Does she still want to be someone else than herself? Could she ever forget who she was in her previous life?
I agree that everyone wants what they can’t have or don’t have, even me! I think this part of the book was important because the more I learn about her childhood is the more I understand her and the odd things about her. I think we will learn even more in the next couple of chapters.
DeleteKatya Bakal-Schlomann
ReplyDelete"We went downtown and the clerk showed us a pair two sizes to big. I put them on and said 'They're perfect.'...the kids laughed at them..." (p.109)
This stands out to me because it shows how far someone will go to fit in with society. It also stands out to me because it makes me think that once a group rejects you, you have very little chance of ever fitting in with them. This means that people should just be happy with the group and shouldn't try too hard because it will ultimately backfire.
I think in Ruth's later life she faced the reality that people who don't accept her for who she is are ignorant, and shouldn't be the society she is part of. She wanted to be part of a loving, non-judging society, and the black community seemed to have exactly what she wanted. Ruth realized clothes and appearance shouldn't matter, it's the personality and emotions that count. I like to think like this too, but I think with the people that make up my life the norms of society have become a part of us, almost taking the silly risks of being a little different away.
I agree with you. Ruth definitely has the opinion that being accepted doesn't matter. She strives to teach her children that education an the personality of a person is what really counts. It is incredible how strong Ruth is after having such a low self-esteem as a child. It is definitely an important thing in life to be a good person. If you're a good person, but for some reason you aren't accepted, that's better than being a bad person and being accepted.
DeleteI totally agree with you, it's from Ruth's upbringing where she learns that appearance and race/religion shouldn't make someone judge a person, but it does, and this is what she's trying to teach her children.
DeleteI agree as well! I think that it was also significant that, even though they were to big, she still wanted to buy them anyways. I think that this was because she was afraid that she wouldn't get to buy them, but also because she wanted them so desperately because to her, they seemed liked a ticket to getting into society, even though in the end it isn't.
DeleteI completely agree too. However I think that perhaps she bought the boots because she knew that she wouldn't fit in. I think she wanted to show them that she didn't care what they thought, and that she was above changing herself to fit their expectations.
DeleteGreat discussion, guys!
Delete"And if there was one thing he didn't like more than black folks in general, it was black men in particular. So it stands to reason that the first thing I fell in love with in life was a black man." (page 107)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows how Ruth was rebellious. She always hated her childhood, because there was no love in her family and because her father sexually abused her and she was discrimnated against. Her falling in love with a black man is clearly a sign of rebellion against her father. But this makes me wonder, would she have fallen in love with the same man had her father thought differently of black men? Did she really fall in love with him for who he was, or because she subconsciously wanted to rebel against her father?
Great post, I didn't really think of this while reading and I agree. It's a sign of rebellion and would have Ruth fallen in love with him if she didn't dislike her father? I think it's maybe I think Peter have her the love and affection she was missing and he was also something dangerous and rebellious.
Delete"Mameh came up to me in the store a couple days later while I was standing behind the counter and placed the bracelet on the counter. Real quiet."pg 114
ReplyDeleteI found this quote interesting because her mom found out about her and Peter but yet she doesn't say anything. Does this mean she agrees or disagrees. And the way she describes her mom put down the bracelet it's like she's been caught but when she doesn't say anything she is left confused. I think Mameh wasn't against or for Ruth's relationship, maybe she just wanted to show Ruth that she knew and that it wasn't a secret anymore. I think that line confused me and I'm still trying to understand it, mameh's silence is kind of demonstrating that she doesn't want to discuss anything she just wants Ruth to know she knows.
My opinion is different from yours. I think the reason why her mom places the bracelet on the counter without saying a word signifies that she accepts their love for each other, she too was a teenager once. Also remember Ruth's father is a very violent person and as a mother you'll do anything to protect your child; which may be another reason why Ruth's mother doesn't say a word because if Tateh had found out things would end badly.
DeleteI agree with Wendy. If she had disagreed with Ruth's decision she surely would've talked to her about. I think Ruth's mom knows about the pregnancy and is trying to help her keep everything a secret from Tateh.
DeleteGood discussion, ladies!
Delete“Mameh came up to me in the store a couple of days later while I was standing behind the counter and placed the bracelet on the counter and limped back to her little chair by the door where she always sat in her apron, sorting and stalking vegetables. “Why don’t you go to New York this summer to see your grandmother?” she said.”
ReplyDeleteI found this quote very significant, because it starts to show Ruth’s life improving. In previous chapters written by her narration, she describes her life as being without any love, with a loveless family. In this chapter, we are introduced to a new character, which is Ruth’s boyfriend. At first, she talks about how happy he makes her, but in the end, she is sad, because she gets pregnant, and is afraid that he will get killed. Her life seems to go right back to the place if was before, but in this quote, right at the end of the chapter, her mom saves her, and her boyfriends, life. In the quote, her “Mameh” gives her back a bracelet she lost when discussing her pregnancy with her boyfriend, showing her that her mother knows what is happening. Then, she tells her that she is sending her to her grandmother’s house in New York City, meaning that she could get help there, possibly implying an abortion or actually give birth there and hide the baby. This would result in the problem of her pregnancy going away completely. This seemed very significant, because it also shows Ruth’s relationship with her mother begin to improve.
I agree with your statement that despite Ruth's constant echo that she was unloved by the majority of thos around her but when we meet her mother we see that that statement wasn't entirely true. However, I disagree with you that Ruth's relationship with her mom began to improve, I actually believe she always had a good relationship with her mom but she took her for granted until she was there for her when she truly needed her.
DeleteI agree, that Ruth was closed up with her mom, and she never realized what she had until it was gone. I guess family was complicated for her, not being able to truly confide in either of her parents. Now she regrets that, being ashamed of her mom and not paying much attention to her. Maybe she was scared of an actual relationship with her family?
Delete"Mameh came up to me in the store a couple days later while I was standing behind the counter and placed the bracelet on the counter. Real quiet. Just placed it on the counter and limped back to her little chair by the door." (page 114)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows how supportive Ruth's mom is. If she does in fact know that Ruth is dating a black guy, it is amazing that she is supporting her. Because of the time period, the majority of white people, especially down south, disliked black people. For Ruth to have someone she knows will support her is surprising. I think Ruth's mom is supporting her because she knows what it feels like to be different then others and judged for that difference. She knows that skin color means nothing. It is very brave of her to keep Ruth's secret and leave it alone because if her husband finds out he will probably abuse her or hurt her in some way. Along with that, the whole town and the Klu Klux Klan will go against Ruth and her family and they will be in danger. Both Ruth and her mom know they can not let Tateh find out.
I thought this quote was important too. Mameh's support and small kindness helps us see why Ruth would regret leaving her mother behind forever. I agree with you that Mameh was brave in her own way, even though she couldn't do much in general to protect Ruth and Sam, I think she loved them and they loved her.
Delete"Why don't you go to New York this summer to see your grandmother? she said." pg 115
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because it shows me two things about the book and what we have read so far. First off, it shows us that there's still a lot left to learn about the characters of the book. I think that there is a good chance that Mameh will play a bigger role in Ruth's life. I predict that when Ruth gets cut off of the family that she will argue against it and take sides with and fight for Ruth. Second, Mameh is actually really "smart". We don't really know that much about her and most of the time she really seems like a wall flower, letting Tateh do all the work and interaction with Ruth, but in this one quote we see Mameh's true colors and how supportive and how secretive she can be to protect Ruth.
Hi, I agree with you. Ruth's mother is pretty smart, but I think that is more like a every mother instinct. I believe that Ruth's mother is already playing a big role after noticing that there is something wrong with her daughter, so Ruth is not lonely after all because even though her mother can talk directly to her, she is giving a big help.
Delete"My life was the store." page 107
ReplyDeleteThis quote basically summarizes a little bit of what happens in this chapter. The chapter in general was really important because Ruth as she begins to grow up and become a teenager, she starts to have the want of being loved by someone because she was always working in the store, and she never had love from her family. So, when she finally have her first boyfriend, that made a big change in her life because she never had love from her family mates and she didn't have a lot of friends or people to talk to. So, she was blind by all the love and caring she was receiving that she forget about the outcomes. That was when she got pregnant, and she was scared that her father would know and kill her boyfriend or even herself. After that, she notices that her boyfriend never cared about her after all because he wanted to keep it as a secret because he was scared that he would die. That was when her mother sends her to New York, and Ruth makes her choices about the pregnancy. So here comes a question: Will Ruth keep the baby or make an abortion? and if she aborts or keeps the baby will she ever learn from that mistake?
I talked about this quote, but I talked about it in another way. I like your deep thought process on it, this is a really good analysis on it!!
Delete“So after a while I had me my own friend, and he didn’t care that I wore secondhand clothes or was Jewish. He never judged me. That’s the first thing I liked about him, in fact that’s what I liked about black folks all my life: They never judged me. My black friends never asked me how much money I made...” pg 109-110
ReplyDeleteThis quote was very significant and stood out to me because Ruth finally gives an explanation of her decisions. During class, my group wanted an explanation of why Ruth prefered black people, and now she states that they didn’t compare to eachother, even if the person was a different race. This also provides information of maybe why she ran away. We don’t know much after chapter 11, but maybe she ran away because of her pregnancy, but we never hear of a sibling with a man named Peter. This reminds of a scene in Hairspray that takes place in the 60’s, where the African American part of town invites the two white girls to hang out with them and they just all hung out like race didn’t matter at all.
I agree with you 100%. I think that her entire life Ruth grew up being judged and critiqued on everything that she did. People always judged her based on the money she had and how wealthy her family was. Black folks, in contrary, judged her based on character and how she was as a person. I think she approves of this a lot an, thus, tries to raise her children in such a way as well.
Delete"Mameh came up to me in the store a couple days later while I was standing behind the counter and placed the bracelet on the counter. Real quiet.
ReplyDeleteThis quote makes me question Ruth’s opinion on her childhood. For the most part it seemed pretty miserable but in chapter ten Ruth describes happier times. But there seems to be a gap from when Ruth was a teenager and to when she became an adult. Ruth doesn’t seem as happy as she was. I know she wasn’t really happy when she was a teenager but she accepted the life she had, but now she doesn’t seem to show the same level of content. The quote also shows a deep connection with her mom even though her mom didn’t really approve of her lifestyle. This explains a little bit about why James and Ruth seem to have a special connection.
"But as I became a teenager, I wanted the same things any teenage girl wants. I wanted love, nice clothes, a date." (page 107)
ReplyDeleteThis line really stood out to me because it shows that Ruth was once like everyone else. She was naive and had a mind of a teenage a girl. You actually see how much she changed and how alike she still is even as grown woman. Part of her is still that teenage girl she was once before, but she became much more wise with her decisions and took a different direction for her life. All woman, teenage girls, and girls can relate to this because we are known to want all this. It makes one feel as if they belong and fit in. Being loved is also a great deal because woman in general want to feel a way they've never felt before towards a guy.
page 107
ReplyDelete"My life was the store"
This quote stood out to me because it showed what mameh had spent her childhood doing. Mameh talks about how the store was everything in her family, and how much it ment. I think that her parents cared more abotu their store than they did of her. Mameh has been talking about the store alot recelntly, showing me (the reader) just how much it occurd in her life. I think that she hated the store, because it took away her parents love for her and her siblings. That is why this quote stood out to me, she is saying that the store was her life, as in that is all she was doing, and all that her parents wanted her to care about. I think that the store symbolized her lifestyle, and her parents care towards her., which was very very poor. I think that the store was one of the main things that impacted the way that she veiws her parents today, and what made her realize that they didnt really care about their children.
“Tateh with his loaded pistol would’ve shot him certainly and probably me, too” (110-111).
ReplyDeleteIt was difficult for me to imagine a father would kill his child and an innocent kid because they were different races and found together. From the way Ruth makes it sound back then it wouldn’t have been uncommon for a dad to act this way. This shows how different time periods the 1930’s and now are. Back then racism was a huge part in everyday life and it still is today, but in a much less severe way. It makes me feel bad for the racism Ruth and James had to deal with. Not only does this show the racism in Ruth's life it shows how little affection her dad has for her. Ruth a lot of the time thought she could raise her children by herself without a male influence or role model. (So far in the book she shows she did this with mostly success). The reason Ruth thought she could do this was because she had no real male role model in her life.
Matt Baldwin
DeleteIn the book it seems like the father is crazy about separation with his kids. I don't think the father would kill his daughter because of being with a different colored kid but he seems that crazy.
"But as I became a teenager, I wanted the same things that any teenage girl wants. I wanted love, nice clothes, a date." -Page 107
ReplyDeleteI found this quote to be extremely relevant to how the readers view Ruth. She has a tendency to put up a strict defense and in a way shuts everyone out of her personal insight. She never wants people to know everything she thinks or feels, hence comes into play her mandatory preference for privacy. I think that though Ruth always tried to be strong and mature, there did come that time when she just wanted to be a teenage girl. I feel as though every girl will always want to do at least one thing the ordinary teenage girl does. At least once.
I totally agree, Ruth tries to build a big shield but sometimes certain things break that shield. As a teen you want to discover new things and find out what people talk about and experience it yourself. Ruth is a well rounded character in this novel.
DeleteMatt Baldwin
ReplyDelete"I'd walk be 478 Carlton Avenue and look at the empty lot there. Nothing. A total waste."
I think this line on Pg. 125 shows that he is always looking put around his surroundings, and he was really into things that fit or didn't fit. I think this came form his mother because she never wanted to miss a deal. This empty lot was just a unused plot of land that was just sitting there. And the way is is written in the book, it seems like it has been empty for a very long time.
In the paragraph before the line, James is talking about money and how it can change people. this lot must have been in a movie of spick lee's, because he talked about it like it was. Movies are a repetitive theme in this book, in this chapter the movies of Spick Lee. and before it was the white men always being the heroes.
I'd like to say I didn't care about my classmates, and what they thought of me. But when I was a teenager I wanted to be like them".
ReplyDeleteI choose this quote because it demonstrates how Ruth was a teenager just like us. It is ironic that Ruth wanted to fit, and felt left out, because James feels that too. James is an outcast because he is black at a white school and Ruth felt like an outcast too. Ruth however tried hard and desperately wanted to fit in and be like everyone else while James didn't want to be like everyone else. I think Ruth just wanted a normal life. I can relate to this and so can many others because people always wan what they don't have. People also want to fit in and be like the "popular kids" and will do anything to be excepted by others. anything besides being themselves. I wonder if Ruth had such a hard time fitting into her school, why did she send her kids to a school where she knew they wouldn't? Hasn't she learned from her experiences?
This is a really great question, Leo. Anyone care to answer?
Delete"You know, my whole life changed after i fell in love.It was like the sun started shining on me for the first time, and for the first in my life I began to smile."
ReplyDeleteThis quote is so powerful. It shows yet another side of Ruth. It shows how much she craved love and when she finally got ot, it was everything. It was like she discovered something new about herself, like when you discover something great and you don't want to let go of it. I feel like when she falls in love, she falls hard and that is why she has so many children. Just like Ruth, when people fall in love they fall hard and forget about the world and the problems that can be caused. Everyone talks about how love is so powerful and how it can change you and Ruth us a perfect example for this.
I agree with you. This is a whole new side of Ruth we have never seen. I like the idea you were going with saying that she discovers a new quality about herself. Well written. Good Job.
Delete"After ravaging the lawn for about an hour, one of us had the presence of mind to ask him, 'Whose house is this?' He laughed. I never saw him laugh so hard. He had just spent his life's savings to buy the place." pg. 119
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it really helped me get to know Mr.Hunter, James McBride's stepfather. He seems like a very kind and independent man. I think it is remarkable how we accepted Ruth and her crazy, huge, controversial family and made them his own. He spent his whole life's savings on a beautiful house for the McBride family. He didn't even get angry when the kids played on the lawn and messed it up. I wish I could have known him. Mr. Hunter gave up many things for love of Ruth and their children. The way he took in all the children and didn't discriminate between his children and step children made the family stronger and whole. I just love this little story. It shows the joy he took in having all these kids be his own. He seems like a great father and his death must have been a horrible blow.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"That’s the first thing I liked about him, in fact that’s what I liked about black folks all my life: They never judged me. My black friends never asked me how much money I made.” PG: 109/110
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it shows us why Ruth sees such a parallel between her and "black folks." She acknowledges that black people are being discriminated against in similar ways to those that her family gets discriminated against and feels solidarity towards them. She also sees that her father hates black people in similar ways to the way he hates her. In her mind, since they are both recipients of her father's hate, they share an experience. This connection is why she feels so close her black children since she wants to protect them from their grandfather's hate.
I agree with you and also i think he also feels this connection becuase its not something you will find with white folks. they judge them quickly and he didnt like that just like Ruth was judged in her life. I think this is why Ruth connects to her kids and understand them in some sense.
Delete"That was a big thing in the south. You're white, and even if you're a jew, since you're white you're better than so-called colored." (113)
ReplyDeleteThis quote captures the harsh reality in the world. It shows how brutal whites were to blacks. I think you can see how much of an outcast they feel like. It hard for them to cope with everyday life because everywhere they go either blacks are hated or jews are hated. They can't find a place to live that has no racism.
I agree with you when you say "I think you can see how much of an outcast they feel like. It hard for them to cope with everyday life because everywhere they go either blacks are hated or jews are hated." People are very judgmental. Though very different, I think we can connect this to the harsh judgement that exists now. For example, if you are homosexual you can be harshly criticized. Humans, in their nature, can be brutal. The question is why?
Delete"I wanted to tell him that i loved him, that i hoped with all my heart he would get better, but i could not formulate the words in my mouth." (pg 128)
ReplyDeleteJames was never taught how to express himself and becuase of this it became dificult to tell him that he loved him for everything. In his life his mother never got love and affection and she never taugh them how to. it wa sa new thing he felt and didnt know how to express himself.he had never spoken to someone like that and he wanted to but it couldnt and wouldnt come out.
i feel bad for him because that feeling is big and to not know how to express your self is not a good thing.
"The only brake I got was when Mameh would send me to her relatives in New York"
ReplyDeleteThis quote is so sad because it shows how distant Ruth was with her family. Useually when you leave your house you get home sick but Ruth seems to almost prefer her knew life with Peter over her childhood.
I agree with you and I think that she never liked staying home. Her home was never home to her, it was just some place for her to sleep and eat. A home welcomed you and made you feel cared for but she had to do all the work herself and suffer more.
Delete"So it stands to reason that the first thing I fell in love with was a black man." (p.107)
ReplyDeleteThis stood out to me because it raises the question, why would she be attracted to a black man if her father didn't like black men? I think this is because she severely disliked her father, therefore would want to hurt him by being in love with something he hated. This connects to people in the world. People often do things to hurt the people they dislike, somewhat uncontrollably. A part of Ruth wanted to harm her father, which may have made African American men more attractive to her, without even thinking about her father. Though Ruth said it was not a contributing factor to her falling in love, I don't think she could control whether it was or not.
"After ravaging the lawn for about an hour, one of us had the presence of mind to ask him, 'Whose house is this?' He laughed. I never saw him laugh so hard. He had just spent his life's savings to buy the place." pg. 119
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows that although Jame's stepfather was not the majority of the children's biological father, he still loved them all as his own children and is willing to put their well-being before his own. He was a good person and is presented as a good role model and all-around father figure.
"He'd buy a brand new v-8 car every year but he couldn't see the logic in buying new clothes when you got cheap hand-me-downs for free"-page 109
ReplyDeleteIt feels as though Tateh has major issues when it comes to prioritizing; he doesn't see the true picture of life in general. Anyone else would know that above all, family is more important than anything else and the idea of being close and together as a family just doesn't make sense to Tateh. You can see how he is prioritizing cars over his family; to do something like that in today's world is completely out of the question. If you really think about it, family will always be there to support you in anything you do in life, no matter what because that is what family does. Clearly, Tateh needs to grasp the concept of a family.
"He had just spent his life savings to buy the place." pg 119
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me a lot because it made me wonder as to why he would let the kids destroy the lawn and break the window without doing a single thing about it. It made me realize that James's description of his step dad was extremely accurate. He really was a quiet and collective man. But I still wonder why after spending his entire life savings on buying a house, he would let some kids destroy it for no reason. I also wondered why he bought the house. Is it a new house for all of them to live in? Lastly I was curious why they waited so long to ask who's house it was. Did it not go to their mind that the house could belong to someone else and that they're destroying someone else's house?
"In fact that's what I liked about black folks all my life: They never judged me. My black friends never asked how much money I made or what school my children went to, or anything like that. They just said, "Come as you are." -Page 110
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it showed that Ruth had an adoration for black folks. She liked them because they weren't judgmental nor did they care about superficial things most people would care about it. Also, this reminds me of who I am. I am not judgmental and I never care for the small things in life. Like Ruth's friends and herself, I believe what matters is the way people treat you and their personalities rather than what they look or their skin color. You like people for what they are inside rather than the outside.
"So it stands to reason that the first thing I fell in love with in life was a black man. I didn't do it on purpose. I was a rebellious little girl in my own quiet way..."
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because of how honest she sounds. Ruth thinks she everything needs an explanation, which I can relate to. She thinks she fell in love with a black man subconsciously, whereas it can or can't be true, that it was accidental or on purpose. Tateh really did scare her, she thought he was going to find out and kill them both! Why was she so secretative?- To save both their lives.
"If there was one thing Tateh didn't like more than gentiles, it was black folks."
ReplyDelete- This quote really says so much about Tateh and the kind of person he is. Tateh is cold hearted. He shows no compassion to people who he feels are not a part of his community. He's extremely prejudiced against blacks, and it just goes to show what Ruth had to grow up with. Ruth had to deal with an abusive, racist father who is unloving and stereotypical. It makes you feel for these characters. You hate Tateh, at least I hate Tateh, and you feel awful that Ruth had to go through all of this. This quote powerfully brings out Tateh's character, and makes you feel for Ruth, and it made me understand a lot more why Ruth is so afraid to tell James about her past. I know I wouldn't want my son to know I came from a father like that, and i wouldn't want to remind myself of it either.